D.C. public schools to drop civics.

[Masark]

]
You can get through High School in my school district without taking Calculus, the highest you have to go is Pre-Calc, if that. And some people don't even take Physics, which is another travesty.

Calculus isn't required up here. I'm not quite sure how our required math compares to precalc. We have 4 math courses at the grade 12 (30) level, with the highly descriptive names of A30, B30, C30, and calculus. Only A30 is required and covers various algebra. B30 is more algebra, with complex numbers and stuff, and C30 is trig.

Physics isn't required here either, but you do need a 30 level science, either chemistry, biology, or physics.

[Asmodias]

Unbelievable, that they are considering not forcing students to learn about how their Government works, which is something important to do. Government was one of my favorite classes this year as a senior and was very informative. I even *gasp* changed my political stance after learning how the U.S. government works, and learned to stop following my parents' opinions on politics blindly and instead make my own opinions about politics.

The fact that they want Fine Arts and Physical Education credits to replace the Civics credit is just another fucking slap in the face, they should be forcing Math and Science credits upon the kids, not additional Fine Arts and Physical Education.

You can get through High School in my school district without taking Calculus, the highest you have to go is Pre-Calc, if that. And some people don't even take Physics, which is another travesty.

You call these things a travesty... Which to you seems correct. I would guess that the subjects you have mentioned, are ones that you very much enjoyed. I would go further and say that because you enjoyed them, and found them useful, everyone should be forced in to those classes.

When I was in highscool (graduated in 2000), The top math requirement was Algebra 3/4. You were hard pressed to even find people taking the calculus class. There were 12 student in my Calculus class and only about 15 in the afternoon class. Also, Physics wasn't a requirement either... though it was rather popular.

I would submit to you that Fine Arts and Physical Education have just as much value as Physics, Calculus, Civics and the rest. With the kick about youth obesity... Physical Education seems like a worth while idea. And, I am just going to throw in Fine Arts because it balances out the more "scientific" courses.

Oh and one more thing. When I was in high school. We were required to take a certain amount of Physical Education to graduate... so that really isn't anything new.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 11:58 AM ----------

You know what? Fine.

You can wave away all civics lessons, you can wave your requirement to ever care about the inner workings of your government. However at the same time you wave your right to vote.

It's funny that you bring this up. I imagine you think it's going to make me think twice about giving up the civics class I was forced to take.... Let me let you in on a little secret.

I haven't voted since 2000. The first year I could actually vote... I did so. Now, I don't bother. So, yeah. I am okay with what you have proposed. You want to play in a world of absolutes... I am more than willing to play along and I will even enjoy it

[Skippy88]

From what I remember from my Canadian Politics class we studied the US political set-up for a week I think. I wonder if they move the "basics" into another "required" class and keep the non-required civics class for those wanting to learn the more "advanced" stuff. Personally, I enjoyed the politics class as they were often fun and I remember more about that then say history or geography.

[Klaaktu]

"I would submit to you that Fine Arts and Physical Education have just as much value as Physics, Calculus, Civics and the rest". LOL!!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!

"I haven't voted since 2000". That's sad, when you think about the people around the world that give their lives fighting for that very same right. Then again, after that first quote, we're probably be better off if you never vote.

And everyone wonders why the U.S. is as screwed up as it is. LOL! Another fine representative of the crux of our problems. Ignorance really is bliss I guess.

Infracted: Please, keep responses civil and constructive and refrain from getting personal.

[mercutiouk]

I think the point here was to try and start addressing the size of the average American vs the rest of the world. Yes, study etc are important. Having a population that find it normal and fun to be healthy rather than sit at home and get fat is probably a decent goal too.

[Skarsguard]

As a parent to kids that are in school I have concluded that schools only care about Math and English. I asked the school teachers and principle that if my son failed every class except Math and English would have have to go to summer school or get held back and they point blank said no. Also when he was in middle school the school district had a no home work policy for kids. I asked the teachers what they thought about that and they said it was "dumb".

[DeltrusDisc]

They take away US Gov classes? I fail to see a problem, its not like most Americans are using what they learn anyhow.

If you don't even attempt to teach though, it will lead to even more problems. Not EVERYONE avoids using their education, you know.

[Asmodias]

"I would submit to you that Fine Arts and Physical Education have just as much value as Physics, Calculus, Civics and the rest". LOL!!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!!!LOL!!

"I haven't voted since 2000". That's sad, when you think about the people around the world that give their lives fighting for that very same right. Then again, after that first quote, we're probably be better off if you never vote.

And everyone wonders why the U.S. is as screwed up as it is. LOL! Another fine representative of the crux of our problems. Ignorance really is bliss I guess.

Cute. How about you post from your main account?

Anyway. You give no rebuttal what my submission... other than LOL!!! repeatedly. How about you offer a reason as to why you disagree with me. I would love to know your reasoning.

As for your next line. You assume that because I choose not to vote, that I don't respect the people who fought to ensure we as a people have that right. You know nothing of why I choose not to vote. Which is okay really, believe what you will. of course, I can sit here and explain why I choose not to vote, but I would imagine that it would do nothing to help spark a conversation or debate with you.

Enjoy hiding behind the anonymity of the internet and revel in what you spew ^_^.

[Adam Jensen]

It's pretty vital in a representative democracy for the people choosing the representatives to know what it is that the representatives do.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 02:22 PM ----------



And for the people who seem to think the president has full control over the economy.

Yep.

Hint: Where do all appropriations bills start? Another hint: It's not the executive branch!

[TradewindNQ]

I see no difference in the two arguments...following it with "I don't vote and you don't know why and I'm not going to tell you cuz /face!" doesn't really bring anything to the table either.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:30 PM ----------

Yep.

Hint: Where do all appropriations bills start? Another hint: It's not the executive branch!

oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust

[Asmodias]

I see no difference in the two arguments...following it with "I don't vote and you don't know why and I'm not going to tell you cuz /face!" doesn't really bring anything to the table either.

I'm guessing this is directed at me. Would I be correct? If you care so much about why I choose not to vote... ask me.

However, why would I need to justify anything about myself to someone who 1... has to create a second account to insult me. and 2... simply feels the need to insult me? I have been in this situation before and in my attempts to explain why I choose to do the things I do, it only seems to spark more insults. So I figured I wouldn't bother in this case as it wasn't worth the potential hassle.

And really, you caught the tail end of a discussion between myself and posters other than the one who chose to insult me for what I do. If you want to see what I have brought to the table, going back one page and reading my posts should suffice ^_^.

[Wiyld]

I see no difference in the two arguments...following it with "I don't vote and you don't know why and I'm not going to tell you cuz /face!" doesn't really bring anything to the table either.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 01:30 PM ----------



oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust

This is getting a little off topic but yeah, we need to stop obsessing over the presidential role and start paying attention to the congress. Ole Georgie did his best to balance his power against that of congress for a reason, the presidency is NOT supposed to be what it has become to day.

[TradewindNQ]

I'm guessing this is directed at me. Would I be correct? If you care so much about why I choose not to vote... ask me.

However, why would I need to justify anything about myself to someone who 1... has to create a second account to insult me. and 2... simply feels the need to insult me? I have been in this situation before and in my attempts to explain why I choose to do the things I do, it only seems to spark more insults. So I figured I wouldn't bother in this case as it wasn't worth the potential hassle.

I think I just did? If you're not going to explain it, then don't bring it up. Or continue getting all defensive that works too. I don't -really- care what your reasons are, but it's a pretty weak response when someone calls you out on it.

[Wiyld]

It's funny that you bring this up. I imagine you think it's going to make me think twice about giving up the civics class I was forced to take.... Let me let you in on a little secret.

I haven't voted since 2000. The first year I could actually vote... I did so. Now, I don't bother. So, yeah. I am okay with what you have proposed. You want to play in a world of absolutes... I am more than willing to play along and I will even enjoy it

No, I know your so entirely self assured you would never reconsider. That is fine. I want to take away your power to voluntarily make a terrible choice. I'm perfectly fine with requiring all citizens to pass a voter responsibility test.

And no, before I get attacked for trying to reconstitute old Jim Crow laws, that is NOT my goal.

Just a basic test that assures that the voter involved has made a minimal effort to educate themselves about the process. We require things like driving tests, how is this any less important? There is a precedent for this idea, why do you think the electoral college exists? Because we needed a stopgap between ignorant emotional uneducated voters and the actual process. Many of our framers relied heavily on the idea of an informed voting population.

If your willing to turn the reins to your future over to those who would decide it for you, your welcome to do so.


Hey lets make it easy, make civics a voluntary class in high school. At the end of the class you can take the voter test. If you pass you get your voter card. You don't have to pay anything to take the class, it isn't some big inconvenience. If you don't want to take it then sure, go ahead and pass on it, you can take the test later on in life if you change your mind, though then you will need to take time out of your life to learn what you need.

Kinda like how drivers ed works in a lot of places.

[TradewindNQ]

I'm a firm believer in the "if you didn't vote you can't complain" stance.

[Xenofreak]

oh oh pick me, House of Representatives! Didn't even need to google it and I'm not even American. /thrust

I knew that too, and I dropped out of highschool before even taking the government/economics (civics) course senior year.

Honestly, it's rather disturbing that they're thinking of dropping the requirement. The average person coming out of the school system is uneducated enough as it is, we don't need to make it worse. It's fucking mind boggling to think that they're doing things that would make them learn even less than they already do.

[Asmodias]

I think I just did? If you're not going to explain it, then don't bring it up. Or continue getting all defensive that works too. I don't -really- care what your reasons are, but it's a pretty weak response when someone calls you out on it.

I am an incredibly indecisive person with a general disinterest in politics. The more I try to follow, the more I feel lost. Thus, the less I care about what is happening. I also tend to side with all parties on certain issues. I may think something proposed by a republican is great, and something different proposed by a democrat is also great. With that, I find flaws in all of the political parties. Knowing this, I find that I am completely incapable of making a decision I can be happy with. Pair that with watching as every politician fails to do something he/she has promised and the complaints after the fact... I feel it is my best interest to not involve myself.

If I can't make an informed decision that I can be satisfied with, I feel it's better for me to leave these decisions to people who can make such a choice.

That is why I choose not to vote.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 12:49 PM ----------

No, I know your so entirely self assured you would never reconsider. That is fine. I want to take away your power to voluntarily make a terrible choice. I'm perfectly fine with requiring all citizens to pass a voter responsibility test.

And no, before I get attacked for trying to reconstitute old Jim Crow laws, that is NOT my goal.

Just a basic test that assures that the voter involved has made a minimal effort to educate themselves about the process. We require things like driving tests, how is this any less important? There is a precedent for this idea, why do you think the electoral college exists? Because we needed a stopgap between ignorant emotional uneducated voters and the actual process. Many of our framers relied heavily on the idea of an informed voting population.

If your willing to turn the reins to your future over to those who would decide it for you, your welcome to do so.


Hey lets make it easy, make civics a voluntary class in high school. At the end of the class you can take the voter test. If you pass you get your voter card. You don't have to pay anything to take the class, it isn't some big inconvenience. If you don't want to take it then sure, go ahead and pass on it, you can take the test later on in life if you change your mind, though then you will need to take time out of your life to learn what you need.

Kinda like how drivers ed works in a lot of places.

Interesting. I wouldn't have expected myself to say this... but I agree with your idea. if this is what you were going towards with your statements earlier, I fully support them.

[GennGreymane]

civics is still important

it helps to prevent

"keep your gov out of my medicade"

[TradewindNQ]

civics is still important

it helps to prevent

"keep your gov out of my medicade"

Awww but I love those kinds of protesters.

[Wiyld]

I am an incredibly indecisive person with a general disinterest in politics. The more I try to follow, the more I feel lost. Thus, the less I care about what is happening. I also tend to side with all parties on certain issues. I may think something proposed by a republican is great, and something different proposed by a democrat is also great. With that, I find flaws in all of the political parties. Knowing this, I find that I am completely incapable of making a decision I can be happy with. Pair that with watching as every politician fails to do something he/she has promised and the complaints after the fact... I feel it is my best interest to not involve myself.

If I can't make an informed decision that I can be satisfied with, I feel it's better for me to leave these decisions to people who can make such a choice.

That is why I choose not to vote.

---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 12:49 PM ----------



Interesting. I wouldn't have expected myself to say this... but I agree with your idea. if this is what you were going towards with your statements earlier, I fully support them.

Now I would HOPE that every student would take the class in school. I fully understand your frustration with the system, I don't think anyone who pays 5 mins worth of attention to daily politics doesn't feel the same way. The problem is that daily politics isn't what defines the essence of the process. Civics classes can kinda feel like going to church. you get preached at about how important it is that you REALLY believe in this thing called 'democracy' and we buy into it but when you go home and think about it your like 'wtf does it even mean'. Its like discussing 'grace' or 'salvation', we are all familiar with the words but can we truly define these abstract terms in concrete ways? Not usually, so then they just become these requisite terms that decorate agendas. Its important to really boil away all the pretty words and get down to concrete concepts things that everyone can understand.

That brings up another thing that I feel is vitally important that we communicate to all our young voters. We sometimes feel overwhelmed by the entire governmental process, so we shrug and say 'fuck it I'll let the experts do it'. The problem is that there isn't a difference between a person who is a part of the government and one who is not. We aren't growing super humans ( as far as I know ) in vials to take care of the important stuff. These aren't infallible gods who understand things so much more clearly then the rest of us that we ought to just let them take care of it. These people are just as confused and impressionable as the rest of us. They need as much help as they can get, help that starts by directing them in a good general direction, and that comes from popular voting.




On a side note, I don't know how big a recreational reader you are, but you might enjoy Starship Troopers. Yes, its the book that abortion of a movie was based on, but the book hardly resembles the movie. The book follows the same main character as the movie through his final year of high school and focus's heavily on his time in civics class. Some of the conversations he has with his teacher as great. One of my favorite parts is where his teacher gets him to realize that their current form of government is not 'the best way' its just 'the way that works best right now'.