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  1. #1

    damage buff for mistweavers?

    We have made several Mistweaver changes to make Fistweaving more viable. As with Discipline, our goal isn't to make a hybrid healer / damage-dealer (at the same time), but to have a different healing style that can contribute some additional DPS. There are several changes here, but overall we increased damage and decreased Eminence healing to compensate for the damage increase. Overall, both damage and healing should go up relative to live. By linking the damage boost of Tiger Palm and Blackout Kick to Jab, we're asking for some short-term commitment to Fistweaving and not just mixing in parts of Fistweaving with more traditional Mistweaving.

    i like the sound of the damage buff but only the abilities are getting buffed i try to maintain my whites and Serpent's Zeal on the target for extra heals but they wont heal as much with the lower eminence.

    shouldnt the whites be buffed too? like a buff to the Tiger Strikes proc would suffice

  2. #2
    Serpent's Zeal wasn't touched.

    Serpent's Zeal = Auto attack eminence.

    Eminence = Special Attack eminence, passively generated by special attacks.

    Both effects are doubled up by your statue.

  3. #3
    I think I'd rather they just lower the mana cost of fistweaving a bit; that's the issue I have, not throughput.

    My 480 mistweaver runs LFR and fistweaves more or less non-stop, with around 9500 spirit. My 470 disc priest runs LFR with about 6500 spirit and uses atonement a similar amount. The mink is better geared and has 50% more spirit, yet has far more problems with mana ><

  4. #4
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    So to increase the healing of fistweaving and prevent it from becoming a healing/dps hybrid, they are reducing the healing but increasing the damage?...

  5. #5
    Warchief Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    So to increase the healing of fistweaving and prevent it from becoming a healing/dps hybrid, they are reducing the healing but increasing the damage?...
    It all works out to a net healing gain anyway... and a huge damage boost.

  6. #6
    Seeing as its PTR, they pretty much went "Hey look we buffed fistweaving to a stupid amount, you should totes try it!". From here I forsee them reducing damage and maybe tuning up how much eminence healing is done from the abilities. They just wanted to get monks using it to get more of an idea to see what it looked like, and what better way than making it totally overpowered.

    I'm interested to see what happens from here, though to be perfectly honest I'd love them to help a little with the randomness of our aoe healing. I hate that if I'm not 100% prepared at all times I get royally screwed and someone might end up dying unless my paladin counter part picks it up. Having something other than healing spheres be viable for single target healing would be great too, though I spose new fistweaving buffs may make that possible.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Serpent's Zeal wasn't touched.

    Serpent's Zeal = Auto attack eminence.

    Eminence = Special Attack eminence, passively generated by special attacks.

    Both effects are doubled up by your statue.
    Although I agree with you that it should be like that, it turns out that my White Hits do much less healing on the ptr than on live right now. Can anyone confirm this from his/her own testing as well?

  8. #8
    Actually, the way i understand it is your Serpent's Zeal makes your Eminence heal with Whites, so the Whites heal wil be getting nerfed

    correct me if im wrong
    Last edited by youngosk; 2013-01-26 at 01:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Anyone who saw Affiniti from blood legion raid on the PTR last night will see how OP it is..... He was doing more damage than the tanks while topping healing..

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    Anyone who saw Affiniti from blood legion raid on the PTR last night will see how OP it is..... He was doing more damage than the tanks while topping healing..
    I can top the heal meters and dps at the same time, healing isnt getting buffed. Just the damage output. As long as monks dont have an advantage on the heal meters there shouldn't be a problem?

    its not OP. On sha of fear i heal alongside a disc priest in 25 man, we're both pure dpsing at the start and i cant come close to his DPS. if anything the mistweaver dps needs the buff

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    So to increase the healing of fistweaving and prevent it from becoming a healing/dps hybrid, they are reducing the healing but increasing the damage?...
    all fistweavers did in the first place was keep tigers palm up and then auto attack throwing uplift around every now and then.

    That's not really fistweaving.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Blablubs12 View Post
    Although I agree with you that it should be like that, it turns out that my White Hits do much less healing on the ptr than on live right now. Can anyone confirm this from his/her own testing as well?
    It's the PTR, the wording hasn't changed on SZ so I doubt it's not a change and more of a bug.

  13. #13
    I didn't really mess with fistweaving during my raid testing last night since I was in a group that I was unfamiliar with and wanted to minimize wasted time due to making stupid mistakes. I did try it out on a dummy for a bit though. 200k+ tiger palm crits makes me feel like it's going to get nerfed somehow because of pvp. Even without actively trying to dps, with chi wave being viable for healing now, I still did over 7 million damage with nothing but chi wave and xuen. I could easily see myself doing 2-3x that if I actually bothered mixing in fistweaving too.
    Last edited by Emerya; 2013-01-26 at 03:57 PM. Reason: grammar

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lerris View Post
    I didn't really mess with fistweaving during my raid testing last night since I was in a group that I was unfamiliar with and wanted to minimize wasted time due to making stupid mistakes. I did try it out on a dummy for a bit though. 200k+ tiger palm crits makes me feel like it's going to get nerfed somehow because of pvp. Even without actively trying to dps, with chi wave being viable for healing now, I still did over 7 million damage with nothing but chi wave and xuen. I could easily see myself doing 2-3x that if I actually bothered mixing in fistweaving too.
    It's actually really OP for PvE too, let's consider this hypothetical situation:

    If Mistweavers routinely do 50% of the DPS that a dedicated DPS does, and don't sacrifice any healing throughput to do so....

    Say you have 7 Mistweavers. A lot, yes, but it really proves the point when you go reducio ad absurdum

    Your 7 mistweavers, if doing 50% of the damage of a DPS, will essentially be equal to 3.5 DPSers. That's the raid-DPS equivalent to using only 3 or 4 healers, but you get the healing of 7 healers. Do you not think that every single guild will get as many Mistweavers as possible if they can have simply extra healers for every fight?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    It's actually really OP for PvE too, let's consider this hypothetical situation:

    If Mistweavers routinely do 50% of the DPS that a dedicated DPS does, and don't sacrifice any healing throughput to do so....

    Say you have 7 Mistweavers. A lot, yes, but it really proves the point when you go reducio ad absurdum

    Your 7 mistweavers, if doing 50% of the damage of a DPS, will essentially be equal to 3.5 DPSers. That's the raid-DPS equivalent to using only 3 or 4 healers, but you get the healing of 7 healers. Do you not think that every single guild will get as many Mistweavers as possible if they can have simply extra healers for every fight?
    It isn't OP, christ read what you posted.

    Even if you bring 2 mws, you lose out on other classes Raid cds that are game changing and mana cd for other healers who need it. FW is mana intensive, so cutting back on 1 priests hymn or shamans mana tide can really mess up fw, and reduce the healing/damage they can do.

    If you want broken, look at disc, SPAMMING SMITE and not ooming, WITH a damage increasing stack and can pop wings for 15% more healing, that is OP and at a 40 yrd range with 0 requirement of something like jade statue or Serpents zeal to maintain.

    Calling this OP, when it takes more to maintain efficiently than a disc priest really makes me wonder how smart this monk community is.

  16. #16
    If you're going to make a case for it not being overpowered Chakra: Chastise would probably be the better mechanic to compare it to.

  17. #17
    Seeing how charkra: chastise doesn't heal while damaging, no I think comparing it that wouldn't be very good argument.

    I am glad its getting this dps buff, now I can prob do dailies in mw

  18. #18
    It's less about healing, more about the potential to do numbers that are comparable to a DPS.

  19. #19
    So a monk doing just above the amount of dps of a tank ( and this is being dedicated to fw) is comparable dps? its 50% Disc priest do more and easier, people calling this OP really don't think outside of their class I guess.

  20. #20
    Priests would do less if they were focusing on damage, we more if we fistweave and if you solely focus on damaging you can do 100k+ dps at the minute. It's overpowered as hell and no matter how hard you lie to yourself it's not going live like this.

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