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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    That makes the argument that the placebo effect markedly reduces stress.

    It's an argument and a solid one.

    I doubt in practice it would yield much in the scope of actual weight loss though.

    To the original point, it's the 500 calorie a day faminefest causing weight loss. Removing the effect of placebo isn't going to make the weight loss disappear with that extreme.

    Oddly enough, "what works works" has merit though.
    I know 'placebo is a placebo' after all, but I have seen people enduring hunger and getting used to eating less because they thought it was some medicines doing. Sometimes we have to let people handle it themselves.

  2. #142
    Refill her ionized water with tap water. Say you got her some more. She lives in blissful ignorance, you save $150 a month.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  3. #143
    Sometimes people goes like "Im spending $XXX on this medicine, Im not gonna screw my diet" and in the end they end up noticing starving is not the way and end up eating healthy.

  4. #144
    Ignorance is bliss. It all depends on whether or not you're willing to shell out the 150 bucks a month for her happiness. Personally, I'd let her know. Ignorance may be bliss now, but it may come back to bite her in the ass down the line.

  5. #145
    500 calories a day? That is extremely low. So low that it is unhealthy.

  6. #146
    Moderator Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Not a nutritionist but stress probably makes your body absorb nutrients better too.
    Nah, stress increases your tone towards the sympathetic nervous system which overall reduces digestive processes.

  7. #147
    The Patient holyevil44's Avatar
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    whit 500 calorie a day not only she is starving her self but the body go into survival mode

  8. #148
    If the thinks it will make her feel less hungry, maybe it will. Thats how homeophaty/placebo works anyway. But 150 usd a month is a very steep price for that. On the other hand, if you pay that much, it has to be effective, right?

    There are other diets out there, a lot of them build on a low cal ditet (almost all the shakes/soup/bar packs). BUT a starvation diet drops you very fast the first week, since you dump out more than you put in, after that the body lowers its metabolic rate to cope with the bad times. When you go off a diet like that, you usually gain back what you have lost, unless you reduce your overall intake or exercise more.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by holyevil44 View Post
    whit 500 calorie a day not only she is starving her self but the body go into survival mode
    indeed and when she tries to stop the diet, boom the fat will fly back on.

  10. #150
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Let's put it this way. Put yourself in her shoes, and her in yours. What would you want her to do?

    That's your answer.

  11. #151
    500?! fuck that solution, tell her to stay below 1500 a day and go for a walk 2-3 miles a day. these 2 things alone whould make her lose weigt at record speed.

  12. #152
    You should absolutely intervene. Never mind the homeopathy crap, but living off 500 calories a day is simply dangerous and won't keep them going for long.
    I'd take that money and invest it in knowledge about how human calorie consumption works and lose weight the healthy, long term way.

    No, really. Even the strictest diets don't dip below 1000-1200 calories. Stop it right away.

    That aside, show her some of James Randi's stuff on homeopathy, it's pretty explanatory.

  13. #153
    I've updated the first post to let newcomers know I did talk to her, so everything's all good.
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk
    The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught.

  14. #154
    Question, would the sugars from a 0 cal soda still contribute to weight gain? Been trying to lose weight and have successfuly maintained my 1200 cal diet (well, except the day I had my car accident...) for 10 days but not a single pound was lost so Ive been wondering if its because of my 0 cal soda consumption.

  15. #155
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Question, would the sugars from a 0 cal soda still contribute to weight gain? Been trying to lose weight and have successfuly maintained my 1200 cal diet (well, except the day I had my car accident...) for 10 days but not a single pound was lost so Ive been wondering if its because of my 0 cal soda consumption.
    No. There is no sugar in 0 calorie sodas. They contain various other things that provide a sweet taste, but can't be used for energy by your metabolism.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Not a nutritionist but stress probably makes your body absorb nutrients better too.
    'Nutritionist' isn't subject to professional regulation in many countries, you can call yourself one if you want!

    As a nutritionist I can confirm that drinking liquids containing certain xanthine alkaloids can lead to increased alertness but can also cause addiction and high blood pressure, and even death in some animal species.

  17. #157
    Field Marshal
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    Kindly offer to buy the treatment for her , rob a couple of her old bottles and fill them with tap water. pocket the $150. everyone is happy, she continues to diet, you get to buy beer!

  18. #158
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    I would love to see what the conversation started off like...

    i can imagine something like "ok dear I've spoken to my online mmochampion friends about you being on a diet and needing to lose weight and we have decided..."

  19. #159
    A scientist not believing in homeopathy

    more at 11

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Shoekron View Post
    A scientist not believing in homeopathy

    more at 11
    That's not true at all - I do believe in the observable benefits brought about in a significant percentage of the population via the placebo effect. My question wasn't about whether or not the placebo effect exists - it clearly does - but rather about whether it was preferable to inform her of all the facts including the negative effects that would be wrought upon her body by such a drastic dieting method, or to let it run its course and deal with those issues down the line.

    While its well known that starvation diets do indeed lead to people losing large quantities of weight, the issue is that they come with a huge number of associated risks and little evidence that at the end of the diet the weight would stay off - rather that as soon as the calorie intake increased beyond energy levels needed to live that the body would start cramming as much of it back into fat storage as it could.

    If you mean, rather, to imply that there a medical benefits to homeopathy beyond the placebo effect, you're right, I don't believe that because it can be demonstrated as completely false. Also, color therapy does nothing (actually, thats not true, there are a couple of liver conditions which the only treatment for besides transplant *IS* blue light color therapy, however that's a unique case - color therapy doesn't cure cancer, or measles, etc, or have any mechanism to do so). Crystal therapy is another hoot. Crystals do nothing besides look pretty. Acupuncture has no medical benefits. Remote pressure points (such as in the feet) simply don't exist. There are some direct manipulation points in the neck which can affect blood flow, and manipulating other ailments directly can sometimes have a positive effect, much like taking an anti-inflammatory ibuprofen will. These all share something in common with homeopathy though - a high (well, under 30%, but that's pretty good considering they're not directly doing anything) success rate through the demonstrable benefits of the placebo effect.

    The funniest thing about the placebo effect, is that post-trial studies of patients who've been on the placebos find that well over half simply don't believe they've been on a placebo - that the "scientists must have screwed up and given them the real drug instead". That's how strong the effect is - people would rather believe that educated scientists who know precisely what they're doing must have 'screwed up', rather than understanding how marvelous the body is that this effect has evolved to give our body stimulus to try and repair itself simply by believing it can do so. When they're not in a 'trial', how much harder would it be to convince these people that they've been on a placebo, and that the water/crystals/acupunture/etc weren't actually doing anything directly? See the problem?

    It's especially effective against conditions where our conscious response lies entirely in our brain - boosting the immune system, or headaches for example. While the stimuli may be real, the pain signal processing is done entirely in the brain - many pain killers work simply by suppressing this pain processing, but the placebo effect demonstrates that in many cases, people can do this themselves, without drugs, simply by believing they're taking drugs. Homeopathy for example...
    Last edited by Janaa; 2013-01-27 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk
    The true measure of a person is how they act when they know they won't get caught.

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