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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire Gum's Avatar
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    What we did was, i run and stun one side, while already having palces mocking banner on the other side. I pick those up and instantly pop SW - With SW running, i have PainSub following that before it drops. At 10-15 secs into the frey, you should have enough venge to keep up a healthy amount of Barriers, dont EVER use block, ever, EVER, just shield barrier your way to victory, also, dont stun unless you ahve to, and if you have to you still need to hit them for rage but dont be in a position where, when they are no longer stunned, they all hit ya. When you get that under controll, the fight is a cake walk - Shouldnt take too long though, seeing as thats the only really hard part of the fight for your POV . Just remember to not refreshing your barrier before its gone, or atleast is VERY low. its a waste of rage, and the change of you getting insta raped is rather minute - Just dont fall asleep untill your adds are dead, thats the only hard part - The fight in itself is uberly boring.

  2. #22


    I can confirm that stuns syncs all melee swings. However, you can always move/slow them to desyncronize and make it a little bit easier, right (except sonic blade)?

    Also, you will notice that in hard moments i used shield barrier. It was nicely absorving 1 million damage per use at 350-500k vengeance, but i sttill used Shield Block before noticing that big value of absorption and tanked just fine. Try to manage your cooldowns with your healer cooldowns when you have 5 or more adds. Used potion of Mogu Power to boost damage and parry.

    Piercing Howl makes it even more easier, but i already had Bloodbath to slow when i needed. In the beginning of every add picking, i started slowing them with Bloodbath to reduce the time they are all together and pop all cds except Demoralizing Shout for chaining.

    Side notes on this video: Mocking Banner only taunts the smaller adds, making the add picking duty even easier. I started picking up a big add to grab the poison buff. Raid was fucusing single-target on skull. Before any critcism, yes, my interface is messed up, i need to organize my Weak Auras and my raid did a mess up with Heart of Fear in the end.
    Last edited by Kathell; 2013-02-11 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #23
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathell View Post

    Side notes on this video: Mocking Banner only taunts the smaller adds, making the add picking duty even easier.
    Do not try this in 25man lol ^^


    Above post is basically exactly how I do it, you only really need to use barrier if your healers are seriously struggling or you are going to die because you have block downtime

    The extra DPS from heavy repercussions lets you do some ridiculous DPS and you can pretty much get 20-30 seconds with just the reavers up in their traps before p1 begins again for the healers to get their mana back
    For extra DPS aswell, try leaping into the mobs with a wall so that the reaver gets one hit off on you as the windblade tank, this means that the melee around you get the buff without the reaver tank having to do some HAM stuff and increases the tank DPS by quite alot, which is easily the top DPS on this fight anyway
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2013-02-11 at 03:06 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Do not try this in 25man lol ^^


    Above post is basically exactly how I do it, you only really need to use barrier if your healers are seriously struggling or you are going to die because you have block downtime

    The extra DPS from heavy repercussions lets you do some ridiculous DPS and you can pretty much get 20-30 seconds with just the reavers up in their traps before p1 begins again for the healers to get their mana back
    For extra DPS aswell, try leaping into the mobs with a wall so that the reaver gets one hit off on you as the windblade tank, this means that the melee around you get the buff without the reaver tank having to do some HAM stuff and increases the tank DPS by quite alot, which is easily the top DPS on this fight anyway
    While YES, heavy reprocussion damage is sexy it is NOT worth the mitigation you are losing from Shield Barrier spam. I personally use the following:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#wyiZ|bwz

    Unending Rage > Heavy Reprocussions. This allows you to pool a bit more rage when you have 1-2 Windblades on you for that 1or2-3 transition

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  5. #25
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    I don't see any reason not to if your healers want something to actually heal in p2 = P And it helps out the DPS aswell ^^

  6. #26
    Dps on the adds was never an issue with my guild. I start tanking the adds by heroic leaping right on them and activating shield wall in mid air. I drag the adds to the designated tank spot (we had 2 spots at the stairs), and just spam the living hell out of shield barrier. When you have only 1-2 mobs on you it's safe to use Shield Block instead, but remember to keep pooling some rage for when they're all back on you. Ask for an external cooldown like Pain Suppression when you have 3 on you, and use Demo shout / banner when needed. Try not to use too many cooldowns at once or you might lack them in the near future. If you're atleast at the exp soft/hit cap you should have no problem keeping a good barrier going. I highly recommend the addon Slam and Awe to track the duration and remaining absorb potential of Shield Barrier. Watching that bar also gives you an idea of how hard you're exactly getting hit for, I regularly had a 1m+ absorb going and they almost got through it a couple of times.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    I don't see any reason not to if your healers want something to actually heal in p2 = P And it helps out the DPS aswell ^^
    ^ This is terrible advice, don't listen to this guy.

    Btw you can, and should Mocking banner your side. It's a very easy way to get and keep aggro until they reach your marker at which point I assume you pop shield wall/CD#2 and heroic leap->Dragon Roar-> Thunder Clap or whatever you have been doing. A Landshark is also great for one set of adds, I use mine on the 2nd, before they reach me. Just make sure you toss the banner far enough out that it doesn't touch your other windblade tank's mobs.

    Our kill vid is @

    As far as Eddy's comment on heavy reprocussions being better than unending rage, I used
    • Unending Rage
    • Death From Above
    • Resonating Power

    And went penultimate dps in the raid (AS AN OFF TANK, NO SHEK VENGEANCE), 2nd only to an Aff lock, by 42.4 dps. You don't need heavy reprocussions, play smart.

    Your focus needs to be survival, not dps, in Windblade phases. Your healers will need all the mana and cooldowns they can get in P3, don't deprive them of that.
    Last edited by Travex; 2013-02-13 at 03:26 PM.

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  8. #28
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Do you mind getting off your high horse, I'm only talking about if you have killed it and for re-kill purposes. For first kills I would probably suggest using barrier over Shield Block after your vengeance gets high enough, 350k+... You can leap in with 100 rage you have pooled from the boss at the end of p1 with a block up until you get to that point.

    I know exactly what I am talking about... much more so than you could ever even dream of ; ) Certianly more sure of yourself than a

    --SNIP_-

    I think you are being extremely aggressive totally needlessly...

    The tank DPS is rediculously high on this fight and you can destroy an add very quickly, which makes healing a lot easier as well if you get unlucky on the fixates on your side

    I could easily argue that you are holding your raid back by pulling such average DPS during the DPS phase, where the tanks should realistically be easily on top overall even at the end of the fight...

    As for healers needing mana for p3, lold... phase 3 is by far the easiest healing phase and the only way you can have people die there is if people forget their tremor totems or don't run out with the visions... even if the heart of fear tards out its exceptionally easy to heal...

    GG on linking a private video btw

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 05:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Travex View Post
    As far as Eddy's comment on heavy reprocussions being better than unending rage, I used
    • Unending Rage
    • Death From Above
    • Resonating Power
    You don't need heavy reprocussions, play smart.
    I think this choice of glyphs for a Prot warrior also speaks for itself in terms of giving credible advise to others :P

    There is utterly no reason to take resonating power. Death from Above is ok in terms of DPS but using it at any other time other than when you are first engaging the adds will more often than not result in back hits which makes it imho completely worthless on this fight...
    My preferred set of Glyphs are; Rude interruption - Sick for when you interrupt an add as its a flat 6% damage increase which is pretty noticeable when you are doing (or should be:P) 350k during the add phase...
    Hold the line - Insane anyway on single target and even more potent with 3 adds..
    Heavy repercussions - For obvious reasons, or should be obvious atleast...

    PPS : You are also .28% under the hit cap and .32% over the expertise cap, assuming you are going for the 7.5% expertise :P I would recommend firstly getting reforgelite and also going 15% expertise for when you hit Sha HC

    Naming and shaming is not permitted here
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-02-13 at 07:34 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Caidec View Post
    Basically you want to keep Shield Block up all the time, while throwing in a Barrier once in a while (i.e. when you are tanking all 3 Adds or when you cant keep SBlock up cause you are either missing rage or need to wait for another charge).
    In 10 man you tank all six (!!!), i'm rocking at 600k extra attack power from vengeance (compared to 150-200k on Meljarak...). Keeping shield barrier over shield block up is crucial for me. I collect them with shield wall up and after shield wall i try to rotate as much cooldowns (personal and raid once) as possible while burn one add. Stuns might seem like a good idea, disabling the adds 20% of the time but syncing all swing timers hurts way more in my experience (coupled with a sonic blast and you're dead). I had to start stacking stamina for this fight (sitting at ~ 700k raidbuffed incl. shaman buff), using two stamina trinkets and regemmed completely (still using hardcap exp and capping hit for threat and rage generation).

    Please be aware that Dragon Roar's stun also sync the swing timer, i only use that when i have to (eg: no disrupting shout for the dispatch) and coupled with blood path (slowing all adds, desyncing them with some backpedaling again).

    On resonating power glyph: i couldn't pick all adds up properly with that glyph to be honest but everyone should use what suits him.

  10. #30
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    I need to do 10 man HC, more vengeance than the 25 man : < You cant even man up and just tank all 6 of them as they then one shot the fixate players with the wind slash... = /
    Well... when 5.2 comes out anyway I can hop back in and do 10 man!:P

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Do you mind getting off your high horse, I'm only talking about if you have killed it and for re-kill purposes.
    He needs help getting to the first kill. Thus your comments are counter-productive as is your attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    I know exactly what I am talking about... much more so than you could ever even dream of ; ) Certianly more sure of yourself than a

    --SNIP_-
    Irony^2


    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    I could easily argue that you are holding your raid back by pulling such average DPS during the DPS phase, where the tanks should realistically be easily on top overall even at the end of the fight...
    Considering I was ~Top raid dps as a tank which never got Shekzeer threat->Vengeance, I think I'm ok with it

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    As for healers needing mana for p3, lold... phase 3 is by far the easiest healing phase and the only way you can have people die there is if people forget their tremor totems or don't run out with the visions... even if the heart of fear tards out its exceptionally easy to heal...
    Agreed, P3 can be easy if your raid doesn't make any mistakes. He doesn't have this boss on farm. It will help his raid to aid in his healers having mana so they can properly heal through any errors made during their progression for a kill earlier rather than later. Perhaps they also need those cooldowns for the corrupted fields before they reach P3 which maybe they don't have if they need to use them during the P2 before-hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    GG on linking a private video btw
    Yea he took that one down and re-posted an HD version this afternoon, /shrug.
    I believe the reuploaded version can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=FGjYz6_UDXM


    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    There is utterly no reason to take resonating power.
    Hold the line - Insane anyway on single target and even more potent with 3 adds..
    Heavy repercussions - For obvious reasons, or should be obvious atleast...
    Resonating power is fine, replacable with DFA if you so choose.
    Hold the Line - Yes, you should have this. I misspoke earlier, I was running this, I quickly cp'd what I had specced earlier for something else.
    Heavy repercussions - Complete waste, you shouldn't be Shield Blocking more than 4 or so times the entire fight

    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    PPS : You are also .28% under the hit cap and .32% over the expertise cap, assuming you are going for the 7.5% expertise I would recommend firstly getting reforgelite and also going 15% expertise for when you hit Sha HC
    .28%? No WAI! /GASP!

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  12. #32
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Yes, the .28% is a waste...

    If you are blocking 4 times during the entire fight... well yeah... Ill let other people choose to take that advice based on that ^^ :P

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Yes, the .28% is a waste...

    If you are blocking 4 times during the entire fight... well yeah... Ill let other people choose to take that advice based on that ^^ :P
    From logs over 136 seconds:
    1st windblade phase: Average Shield Barrier absorb = 325773.9
    2nd windblade phase: Average Shield Barrier absorb = 290964.8
    Sum average Shield Barrier absorb for windblade phase = 308369.35

    Shield Block lasts 6 seconds.
    Worst case scenario you have 3 unstunned windblades attacking you for those 6 seconds.
    Each windblade hits for an average of ~79601.8 when not absorbed or parried or dodged.
    You take an average of 150424 dps from meele swings from windblades.
    This averages to 902544 over 6 seconds.
    For the sake of simplicity, I will ignore critical block here with the assumption that in such a scenario the blockable damage which reduced by dodge/parry/% damage reducing cooldowns which is factored before block is enough to compensate (probably even over compensate).
    Therefore 30% of 902544 is 270763.2


    This math blatently proves that even in some fantasy scenario where you don't have raid members rotating a single stun on your adds, or knocking them back, or have any extra % damage reducing cooldowns up, or whatever else - Shield Barrier is still better than Shield Block.

    Furthermore it is typically in or shortly after the transition from tanking 2->3 mobs that a tank will die, thus a burst of survivability (practically 3-6 seconds of damage immunity with a proper % reduction internal and 120 rage into chained Shield Barriers) will give your healers time to properly HoT you up/Cd's/etc vs taking that spike in damage.

    Before you retort with something snide, in poor English followed by a string of smiles, be sure to know what you're talking about and don't mislead the people here who are looking for your advice and help.

    If you believe what I've posted is in some way incorrect please let me know so that I may re-evaluate it and possibly correct it.
    Last edited by Travex; 2013-02-13 at 09:48 PM.

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  14. #34
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Ok... whatever you say = ) They should probably change the priority to high ; )

    I wont bother wasting half an hour of my time constructing a counter argument but will instead just let my experience, reputation, progress and general performance speak for itself and people can choose for themselves whoever they want to listen to ^^
    Last edited by eddytheone; 2013-02-13 at 10:19 PM.

  15. #35
    You should use shield barrier. You will be getting so much vengeance that you will be getting 1 million+ damage absorb shields. In most cases, even when I have all three adds hitting me, they do not do enough damage in six seconds to break the shield barrier.
    Last edited by Freese; 2013-02-14 at 06:30 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Travex View Post
    Before you retort with something snide, in poor English followed by a string of smiles, be sure to know what you're talking about and don't mislead the people here who are looking for your advice and help.
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    Ok... whatever you say = ) They should probably change the priority to high ; )

    I wont bother wasting half an hour of my time constructing a counter argument but will instead just let my experience, reputation, progress and general performance speak for itself and people can choose for themselves whoever they want to listen to ^^
    Nailed it.

    Post constructively and stop provoking
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-02-14 at 03:09 PM.

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  17. #37
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travex View Post
    Nailed it.
    You are never too late to try something new I guess

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Travex View Post
    From logs over 136 seconds:
    1st windblade phase: Average Shield Barrier absorb = 325773.9
    2nd windblade phase: Average Shield Barrier absorb = 290964.8
    Sum average Shield Barrier absorb for windblade phase = 308369.35

    Shield Block lasts 6 seconds.
    Worst case scenario you have 3 unstunned windblades attacking you for those 6 seconds.
    Each windblade hits for an average of ~79601.8 when not absorbed or parried or dodged.
    You take an average of 150424 dps from meele swings from windblades.
    This averages to 902544 over 6 seconds.
    For the sake of simplicity, I will ignore critical block here with the assumption that in such a scenario the blockable damage which reduced by dodge/parry/% damage reducing cooldowns which is factored before block is enough to compensate (probably even over compensate).
    Therefore 30% of 902544 is 270763.2


    This math blatently proves that even in some fantasy scenario where you don't have raid members rotating a single stun on your adds, or knocking them back, or have any extra % damage reducing cooldowns up, or whatever else - Shield Barrier is still better than Shield Block.
    I have to argue against this point here, saying that it's not as blatant as you think it is.
    A) Critical Blocking at current mastery values+ raid buff can easily lead to about 50% critical block chance, which, sticking with your above statement states that overall, it's 45% damage reduction total without including Defensive cds, which I'll also state won't be up 100% of the time, nor should they. 45% of 902544 is equal to 406144.8 (statistically speaking) WITHOUT taking into account damage mitigation/dodge/parry. Our active mitigations outside of the two on topic (ie, barrier and block) are Shield Wall 40% for 12, Demoralizing Shout 20% for 10, and Demoralizing Banner 10% for 15 seconds, outside of external cds. Our Main Tank runs about 25% combined dodge and parry which I'll argue can't be considered only for shield block, because it can mean that an otherwise absorbed attack will be avoided, more or less wasting the absorption if it times out (this actually favors barrier, but I'm coming in unbiased). The add phase lasts longer than 39 seconds, so the mitigation overall can vary depending on a lot of circumstances (did someone kite an add through your pile, is an add being kited, was there a stun involved).
    B) Warriors Enrage upon Critical Blocking, which was discussed as potentially 50% of a warrior's block chance. Enrage grants 10 bonus rage. Shield Blocking instead of Shield Barrier the adds will be able to state that ~half of the blocked attacks will be crit blocks, thus (sticking with a 1.5 attack swing timer) you'll get 3 attacks per add, which'll be 9 swings (~45 rage in 6 seconds) or 6 swings (~30 rage in 6 seconds) which can also be used to Shield Barrier. Since the average, minimum amount of rage for this situation will be 30 rage, we'll stick with a 30 rage Shield Barrier being used while all the rage you normally get being dumped into Shield Block as available. This can go to a further statement of:
    Using Shield Block over Shield Barrier for adds will actively grant you more rage that you can dump into Shield Barrier, giving you a (using your values of "Therefore 30% of 902544 is 270763.2" added to 50% (because 60 Base Rage for Shield Block + 30 average Rage for Shield Barrier through Enrage procs ((where 30/60=.5)) only vice 60 Base Rage for Shield Barriers) of "Sum average Shield Barrier absorb for windblade phase = 308369.35" which is 154184.675, will grant you a total 424947.875 mitigation. That this is obviously too in favor of Shield Block, due to not taking into account the chance to Critically Block when not using Shield Block, but I feel this represents enough of a concept of "don't overlook Shield Block" to prove my point.

  19. #39
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    You certainly can spam barrier and if done correctly it will provide you the most damage reduction possible

    My point is that I don't think that's always going to be whats best for the encounter :P The damage (with decent healers) isn't that hard to heal and being able to destroy the adds quicker by using Shield Block, which believe me is a big DPS gain (Trust me... Prot DPS is something I know quite alot about :P) will help out your raid aswell.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    You certainly can spam barrier and if done correctly it will provide you the most damage reduction possible

    My point is that I don't think that's always going to be whats best for the encounter :P The damage (with decent healers) isn't that hard to heal and being able to destroy the adds quicker by using Shield Block, which believe me is a big DPS gain (Trust me... Prot DPS is something I know quite alot about :P) will help out your raid aswell.
    On 25 man, I've gotten hit for 800k within two seconds, even with Shield Block up. I just don't think the DPS is worth sacrificing for the survivability. We usually kill the adds with 30-40 seconds left on advance anyways, and I peak at around 220-230k DPS during Phase 2 while keeping shield barrier up.

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