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  1. #41
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    I must live in one of the largest areas that isn't "against" blacks or something then. Sure, you have a ton of black people living in this large subsidized housing complex that has a police presence there weekly but to say we "owe" you something for something you've never witnessed in your life or known someone who was a slave is ludacris. Companies get rewarded for hiring black people. Schools are most likely rewarded as well. I'm sure almost anything and everything federally funded is rewarded for helping minorities too. So, buck up, get some education and you too can move out of the ghetto so you're not more inclined to commit a crime. That's exactly what you are saying. I'd love to see some sort of statistic saying "20% of whites live in poverty hence murders committed by whites is 15% while 95% of blacks live in poverty hence murders committed by blacks is 75%"

    Note: The numbers above are examples trying to show the massive discrepancy (fact if you actually look for it) between murders by blacks, asians, russians, etc, etc, etc. Also, when I say "you", I'm not specifically referring to YOU (Didactic) I'm generalizing.
    It's hardly as simple as that. The cycle of poverty is not simply a practical one, it's also a socio-cultural one; hence why tools like Affirmative Action exist in order to make mobility more commonplace for minorities and hopefully wean them off anti-intellectualism and "selling out and becoming an oreo".

    I already admitted black people are more statistically likely to commit crimes; but, given the percentage of blacks who live in poor socioeconomic conditions compared to the percentage of whites, of course they are going to be more likely. It does -not- imply any inherent defect in the race itself.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #42
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Ofc racism is possible against white people. Racism is about races, right?

    But white people are as a rule in a much better position, so it doesn't really sting.

    Watch Louis CK on this. Spot on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  3. #43
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    One should try to improve their own country. Not try to fix other countries messed up state, if they can't pull themselves out of it then they should perish, why should we even intervene if they're not capable of helping themselves?

    Same goes for individuals from those "social groups", if they're incapable of helping themselves then why should we intervene?
    We're not talking about fixing other countries.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    We are not our ancestors. The present is today, we who live today were not part of the past, why would we owe them anything?

    Hell most "white" people in the USA didn't even have ancestors here when there was slavery.

    The great Irish and Italian immigration periods were after the abolishment of slavery and they came here to signs reading Irish and Italian need not apply. The same applies to many "white" people.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  5. #45
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    We're not talking about fixing other countries.
    If an individual is not capable of helping themselves, why should anyone intervene? If they're not willing to change, what is there to help with?
    Close your eyes and smile.
    [15:53] <PizzaSHARK> you have such a cute accent! ^_^

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneth View Post
    Slavery is not the cause of modern black socioeconomic conditions. Manufacturing jobs used to be predominately in major cities, and many blacks moved to the cities looking for work. Due to segregation, blacks were only allowed to live in homes in certain areas which then created black neighborhoods. When the jobs were moved from the city to the suburbs, many blacks were then left jobless and unable to move. When there's no jobs and you have a family to feed, you then turn to a life of crime to provide for your family. Which is pretty much what started the downward spiral of black culture within the inner cities of America. Yes, this was a completely over-simplified explanation, but it's pretty much the gist of what happened.

    Affirmative action won't break the cycle of poverty either, although this has helped minorities and women receive jobs. Sweeping changes in education and our criminal justice system will be the key to breaking the cycle of black poverty. The OP in the other thread wrongly stated that blacks are 5 times more likely to commit crimes, which is wrong. Whites actually commit more crimes, due to population numbers, but receiver lesser punishments on average. However, minorities typically will receive the maximum punishment for even a first offense. This creates the illusion that blacks are more likely to commit crimes, but the reality is, they are just more likely to get punished more severely when caught.
    I said slavery was -a- cause, your stated reasons being -another- cause. History is never monocausal.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    We do, actually. The reason being the the effects of enslavement are still present, as seen in the poor socioeconomic conditions of a large portion of the black community. This is the reason for affirmative action, to try and break the cycle of poverty.
    Redressing past racism by instituting more racism isn't a good solution.

  8. #48
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    If an individual is not capable of helping themselves, why should anyone intervene? If they're not willing to change, what is there to help with?
    Because that's the humane thing to do.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  9. #49
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Because that's the humane thing to do.
    How is it? I really do not understand that reasoning.
    Close your eyes and smile.
    [15:53] <PizzaSHARK> you have such a cute accent! ^_^

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    If an individual is not capable of helping themselves, why should anyone intervene? If they're not willing to change, what is there to help with?
    If you're about to die on the side of a road though someone could help you but you cannot help yourself, Should one just leave you there to rot?
    Is that what you would want Tilli, Because you're incapable to help yourself ?

    For some countries its very Hard to change. While a lot of people want to it isn't always so easy. It isn't always about not willing, Sometimes you're just not able to due to many circumstances.

    When you look long enough, Diglett's nose turns into a mouth with 1 tooth!

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaneth View Post
    Slavery is not the cause of modern black socioeconomic conditions. Manufacturing jobs used to be predominately in major cities, and many blacks moved to the cities looking for work. Due to segregation, blacks were only allowed to live in homes in certain areas which then created black neighborhoods. When the jobs were moved from the city to the suburbs, many blacks were then left jobless and unable to move. When there's no jobs and you have a family to feed, you then turn to a life of crime to provide for your family. Which is pretty much what started the downward spiral of black culture within the inner cities of America. Yes, this was a completely over-simplified explanation, but it's pretty much the gist of what happened.

    Affirmative action won't break the cycle of poverty either, although this has helped minorities and women receive jobs. Sweeping changes in education and our criminal justice system will be the key to breaking the cycle of black poverty. The OP in the other thread wrongly stated that blacks are 5 times more likely to commit crimes, which is wrong. Whites actually commit more crimes, due to population numbers, but receiver lesser punishments on average. However, minorities typically will receive the maximum punishment for even a first offense. This creates the illusion that blacks are more likely to commit crimes, but the reality is, they are just more likely to get punished more severely when caught.

    Actually look up the phenomena know as "White flight" which was a catalyst that shaped many poor urban areas that exist today.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

  12. #52
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    If you're about to die on the side of a road though someone could help you but you cannot help yourself, Should one just leave you there to rot?
    Is that what you would want Tilli, Because you're incapable to help yourself ?
    That's a really bad comparison.

    I'll point out this(bolded)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    If an individual is not capable of helping themselves, why should anyone intervene? If they're not willing to change, what is there to help with?
    If they do not want to accept intervention, what is there to help with?
    Close your eyes and smile.
    [15:53] <PizzaSHARK> you have such a cute accent! ^_^

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    That's a really bad comparison.

    I'll point out this(bolded)



    If they do not want to accept intervention, what is there to help with?
    why is it exactly a bad comparison? Do you know all those people are not willing to change? did you personally go and find out?
    I can only think that you're assuming they don't want to change because things arent changing at all or at the speed you think is right.
    But its not like you know if they want it or not. Be it an individual or a country.

    When you look long enough, Diglett's nose turns into a mouth with 1 tooth!

  14. #54
    ..."we just gotta eliminate them. White people, black people, brown people, yellow people, get rid of 'em all. All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color."

    +10 Internets if you know the quote

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It's hardly as simple as that. The cycle of poverty is not simply a practical one, it's also a socio-cultural one; hence why tools like Affirmative Action exist in order to make mobility more commonplace for minorities and hopefully wean them off anti-intellectualism and "selling out and becoming an oreo".

    I already admitted black people are more statistically likely to commit crimes; but, given the percentage of blacks who live in poor socioeconomic conditions compared to the percentage of whites, of course they are going to be more likely. It does -not- imply any inherent defect in the race itself.
    Why can't you agree that it's honestly as simple as being a criminal or not? I'm sorry but before I started my business and had to eat ramen noodles, pick and choose what bills to pay and what to let go past due sometimes I didn't once kill anyone, rob anyone or anything, etc.

    It's not poverty that MAKES your commit a crime. It's simply being a criminal or not. It's a black and white issue. Didn't mean to use a pun, but it fits.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    We do, actually. The reason being the the effects of enslavement are still present, as seen in the poor socioeconomic conditions of a large portion of the black community. This is the reason for affirmative action, to try and break the cycle of poverty.
    The problem with your statement there is that it is human nature that when we get benefits from the government, we will rely on them. Thus giving a race an easier shot or free stuff only keeps them in the condition they are in. The only way a people will ascend is if they have to.

  17. #57
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    why is it exactly a bad comparison? Do you know all those people are not willing to change? did you personally go and find out?
    So we give them the same opportunities as everyone else. It's up to them to choose to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimfrost View Post
    Here in Belgium you are actually able to get a house faster from the OCMW if you're not white so i believe that argument s untrue. Why is it not equatable? White people still get killed in south africa because they're white.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 03:28 PM ----------



    I'm just flabbergasted by the people who believe you can't be racist against white people or that "it's not the same".
    The only reason it wouldn´t be the same is due to the attention racism against other ethnicities have gained in recent history, and that "we" - western civilization - aren´t so accustomed to it (again a matter of knowing history). Besides that racism is racism, and it doesn´t become "reverse racism" because its against white people (the only thing I can think of that would be "reverse racism" is treating a specific group extra well as opposed to bad).
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Why can't you agree that it's honestly as simple as being a criminal or not? I'm sorry but before I started my business and had to eat ramen noodles, pick and choose what bills to pay and what to let go past due sometimes I didn't once kill anyone, rob anyone or anything, etc.

    It's not poverty that MAKES your commit a crime. It's simply being a criminal or not. It's a black and white issue. Didn't mean to use a pun, but it fits.
    As much as I'm not a fan of labelling people for life after committing a crime, the pun did make me giggle for a while. :x
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  20. #60
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Why can't you agree that it's honestly as simple as being a criminal or not? I'm sorry but before I started my business and had to eat ramen noodles, pick and choose what bills to pay and what to let go past due sometimes I didn't once kill anyone, rob anyone or anything, etc.

    It's not poverty that MAKES your commit a crime. It's simply being a criminal or not.
    Because it is not, and is -never- as simple as that. If impoverishment makes a person more likely to commit a crime (a known fact), then it would follow that rectifying the impoverishment would decrease instances of crime, period.

    Social Sciences 101.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

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