Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Monks have no raid utility?

    I rarely see monks played anywhere, and paragon said that WW does not have anything useful besides dps. I have started to seriously switch monk to shadow priest after reading that. So is it true that monks serve no purpose in this game?

  2. #2
    "Monks have no raid utility" = serve no purpose in this game?

    Wait what?

  3. #3
    I meant raiding, but i heard they are not really popular in pvp either.

  4. #4
    Guilds killed a lots of boss in early progression thanks to MW monks being really strong. Now we're in the middle of the pack, we're gonna get changed in 5.2 , no really high raid utility that's ok, but I think we're not gonna lose spot in raids that fast. Hardcore guilds already dropped 1-2 monks when they got nerfed.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    I rarely see monks played anywhere, and paragon said that WW does not have anything useful besides dps. I have started to seriously switch monk to shadow priest after reading that. So is it true that monks serve no purpose in this game?
    Zen meditation which imo is an extremely useful cooldown the problem with some guilds is that they don't want to accept changes too much. I think the whole monk class brings enough utility especially bm and mw.

  6. #6
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    222
    Brewmaster has heals, damage, shields, AoE damage reduction (which isnt that good because of its low range for now).

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Yorgl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Paris
    Posts
    362
    Quote Originally Posted by Stacia View Post
    Brewmaster has heals, damage, shields, AoE damage reduction (which isnt that good because of its low range for now).
    It's still quite good thanks to the number of fights where the raid is packed when we need it : Feng, Garaj'al, Elegon, Zor'Lok, Ta'yak,Mel'Jarak, Un'Sok, Protectors, Tsulong...
    I might forget some but basically there are numeros fight where it is a very good raid CD. Personnally, i love this ability !

  8. #8
    We have a Monk Tank and Healer in my team and there very useful. Tanks generate so much thread and dps. Healers have Zen med and a great mechanic for melee healing.

  9. #9
    You are all talking about tanks and healers, but what I wanted to know was how useful windwalkers are, forgot to write it on topic name.

  10. #10
    Monks do lack some traditional raid utility in some respects. Think about the buffs: the only one all Monks provide is also provided by two very common classes (5% stats, paladins and druids). Windwalkers also provide 5% crit, but again that's a fairly easy buff to get.

    As for raid cooldowns... Again, not amazing. Brewmasters have Avert Harm, which would be great if it wasn't on such a short range (10 yards). All Monk specs get Zen Meditation, which is nice... But it's very limited in what it can actually redirect. It's mostly best used as a personal damage reduction cooldown, not as a raid cooldown.

    Now, I highlighted one word in the first paragraph. 'Traditional'. Because yes, we lack the types of raid cooldowns that people are used to. But there are some other areas in which we can shine. First off, a Brewmaster's Ox Statue: this statue can really help reduce the pressure on the healers by preventing several million damage per boss fight. On some fights, it even allows the Brewmaster to effectively heal for more than the actual healers! It's not an on-demand raid cooldown though, but it does help in reducing the burden on healer mana, which can be quite a concern in heroic raiding.

    That's a theme I'm going to stick with, because Windwalkers as well help a lot with this. My experience primarily comes from Blade Lord Ta'yak heroic, as I was Windwalker spec for our first guild kill. I noticed that with proper cooldown usage (Dampen Harm, Touch of Karma, Zen Meditation, etc.) I took barely any damage from the Unseen Strikes, and any damage I did take I was able to heal up myself. This reduced the burden on the healers a lot, allowing them to focus more on those with Wind Step debuffs, the tanks and their Overwhelming Assaults, etc. Again, not a traditional raid cooldown, but it helps healers to have the mana they need to deal with the difficult moments.

    I mean, sure: you compare these things to stuff like a Warrior's Demoralising Shout, Skull Banner, etc. and Monks seem weak. There's more than one way to be useful to a raid, though. Sometimes simply being that reliable raider who is able to take barely any damage whilst putting out solid DPS is all the utility you need.

    All that said though, I really think Monks could use Heroism/Bloodlust. :P

  11. #11
    It does not seem to be enough "utility" because top guilds rarely use monks. I really cant push myself to level another character through pandaria anymore so I am stuck with this stupid monk. So if I wanted to get in good hc raid guild, should I just switch to brewmaster or mistweaving or can I stay in ww?

  12. #12
    Honestly, ignore what 'top guilds' do. Their experience is vastly different to the rest of us, where small differences in classes can mean the difference between a wipe and a kill for them, but for us player skill makes up for any sort of imbalances.

    Windwalkers do decent DPS and have their uses in raids. If you enjoy playing it, go for it, you'll find a decent guild that'll find use for you. Don't forget that buffs are incoming for 5.2 which will provide more utility (Ring of Peace being a very useful one, I can definitely see that being a game-changer on certain bosses) as well.

    Enjoyment of the class is number 1. If you enjoy it and play the class well, you'll find raid spots.

  13. #13
    I would like to have an option out there if I wanted to reach for those very high end raiding experiences. But I dont understand what you said that it would mean difference in wipe or kill, because it would apply for everyone in this game because we are playing same bosses.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,066
    Oooookay, when you're basing your gaming experience on what other people are telling you it should be, then you've got an issue right there my friend.

    If you're serious about hardmode raiding (and I'm really hoping I'm misinterpreting your posts and you're actually going to put in the hard yards rather than try and take the easy way and just look around for someone to latch on to) there's only one thing that should concern you. And that is this:

    Do you enjoy playing a particular class, and do you feel that you can play it to its maximum potential?

    Forget everything you read like "I heard from a friend who knows a guy who's brother's workmate plays in top guilds that monks are worthless." If this your ONLY basis for these kinds of thoughts, then I'm sorry to say that you really shouldn't be worrying about HC raiding right now.

    Are guilds looking for melee DPS? Show them that you're a mature player who can maximise his damage done while simultaneously avoiding everything he can and using his personal heals and defensive cooldowns to make his impact on the healers as low as possible. Impress them with your ability to kick arse, don't assume that because you don't have Skull Banner you're going to be immediately looked over. Make a good enough impression that the officers say "wow, this guy is a team player, fun to work with and knows how to rip bosses a new one".

    If guilds are not looking for melee DPS, or are looking for a particular class to fill a gaping hole like lack of Bloodlust, then move on until you find another guild.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  15. #15
    HC raid guilds are not guilds that prioritize "good people" over useful classes. Those kind of guilds always choose their compositions based on class utility because they want to kill bosses as efficiently as possible, and it seems that monk is not really popular class.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Nikkaszal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    3,066
    In addition, "looking towards the future" is a tricky statement. Because if you're just starting to raid now, you've got a way to go until you hit cutting-edge stuff where theorycrafting and class stacking takes over. You won't free-ride into hardmodes, you'll be starting with a bunch of people still progressing with normals. And you'll be there a while. You'll have all that time to work with them before you tackle harder stuff, and if at that point they say "sorry bro, know you've been here for ages but we're gonna go ahead and give you the boot because you don't have utility" then these people are clearly jackasses and you shouldn't have signed on in the first place.

    In addition, who knows where monks will be ability- and balance-wise in the future? We're just about to get a patch that gives us some pretty tasty buffs as well as new abilities.

    At the end of the day, do you want to raid with your monk or are you just looking for validation to switch classes because you got bored of it?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 02:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    HC raid guilds are not guilds that prioritize "good people" over useful classes. Those kind of guilds always choose their compositions based on class utility because they want to kill bosses as efficiently as possible, and it seems that monk is not really popular class.
    How many have you been in?

    I really hope you're trying to define "HC guilds" as "guilds that are working on hardmodes" and not "guilds that are close to the best in the world".

    Because my friend, judging from your posts, the latter is not you.
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2013-01-25 at 02:50 PM.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  17. #17
    Define HC raid guilds.

    Guilds that go for world firsts? Correct, windwalker monks are probably not the most useful. However, they excel at surviving through their mobility and various damage reduction abilities. (not to mention selfhealing)

    Guilds that clear heroic modes before the content becomes irrelevant? Play whatever the fuck you want, but play it well.



    When I read your posts I feel your mind is already made up and you're just looking for that one person to say "you are right Cle, you should play priest".

  18. #18
    With the move to spread utility around and give each ability to multiple classes, unless you are stacking monks i really don't see that it matters.

    I rarely pay attention to what the top guilds like paragon say, if i did i would have dumped my shaman early in cata.

  19. #19
    The thing that I was worrying was, that after long period of hard work I hit brick wall just because of bad class design. I would not like this to happen, so it is better to know now, what class should be played. It is true that I have long road to go through and class changes could come, but blizzard is known for being very very slow with their class changes so I am not sure.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    The thing that I was worrying was, that after long period of hard work I hit brick wall just because of bad class design. I would not like this to happen, so it is better to know now, what class should be played. It is true that I have long road to go through and class changes could come, but blizzard is known for being very very slow with their class changes so I am not sure.
    It will take a long time before you hit that brick wall, if you'll ever hit it at all.

    Also, if you ever hit that brick wall I'm sure that, if you're a good player, your guild won't mind you rerolling at that point to overcome that wall. Know that the real hardcore guilds require players to have multiple alts, so that they're able to swap if necessary.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •