New Immigration Reform

[Garnier Fructis]

It would be cheaper just to grant the undocumented immigrants citizenship then it would be to deport them as they would then be forced to pay taxes like the rest of us, and companies could no longer use them for cheap labor. Also most of the legal ones don't speak English anyways.

Do illegal immigrants buy things? Then they're paying sales tax on those purchases. Do illegal immigrants have houses? If so, then they're paying property taxes. Illegal immigrants actually pay a lot of taxes, some even pay income taxes. It's not like we're not getting anything out of them.

[Elegiac]

Check out how much they are costing in prisons, schools and hospitals and ask why are we paying for them?

If your life is so bad why do you have 12 kids? They can never answer that question, only claim to be victims.

That is a myth, they are not a 'drain' on the public sector. The vast majority of those who do come here find employment and are just as much of a 'drain' as anyone below a certain level of income.

---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 04:31 PM ----------

Do illegal immigrants buy things? Then they're paying sales tax on those purchases. Do illegal immigrants have houses? If so, then they're paying property taxes. Illegal immigrants actually pay a lot of taxes, some even pay income taxes. It's not like we're not getting anything out of them.

Exactly. Not to mention the fact that they are employed and provide goods and services is economically beneficial.

[chadwix]

Do illegal immigrants buy things? Then they're paying sales tax on those purchases. Do illegal immigrants have houses? If so, then they're paying property taxes. Illegal immigrants actually pay a lot of taxes, some even pay income taxes. It's not like we're not getting anything out of them.

This is so wrong, how do you buy a house or pay taxes without a ss number? They pay sales tax, cali tried something sneaky by raising their sales tax to compensate for all the illegals.

"That is a myth, they are not a 'drain' on the public sector."

Economists disagree which is why were trying to legalize them, so they finally do start paying. Using a service without paying for it raises the prices for the people paying, its common sense...

"I think Didatic has basically covered it, particularly your "myths" you're perpetrating here."

Sorry but they are kinda clueless aside from emotion.

[DarkTZeratul]

Rather than reward them Id rather ship them all out and THEN tell them to get in the back of the line behind the honest people doing it the legal way. Ill be sure to call my senators and tell them to block this legislation or GTFO next election. Why should criminals get rewarded when the honest people choosing the legal route get screwed

While I agree with you in theory, this would be nigh impossible to carry out logistically.

[mvaliz]

Check out how much they are costing in prisons, schools and hospitals and ask why are we paying for them?

If your life is so bad why do you have 12 kids? They can never answer that question, only claim to be victims.

Wow...stereotype much? o_O

I honestly can't even begin to figure out where to start... I think Didatic has basically covered it, particularly your "myths" you're perpetrating here.

[Elegiac]

This is so wrong, how do you buy a house or pay taxes without a ss number? They pay sales tax, cali tried something sneaky by raising their sales tax to compensate for all the illegals.

They did it because California has severe appropriation issues owing to their botched referendum procedure.

[Garnier Fructis]

This is so wrong, how do you buy a house or pay taxes without a ss number? They pay sales tax, cali tried something sneaky by raising their sales tax to compensate for all the illegals.

Fake SS numbers among other things. You really think the millions upon millions of illegal immigrants in this country are all living in the hills? Of course they've found ways to own homes.

Edit: I like the attitude of "I can't imagine how it could happen, so you're wrong."

[Austilias]

Good move. Anything that contributes to the end of the 'ghetto' culture wherein you have immigrants who refuse to immigrate, it a good move. It is an issue that the UK is facing at the moment, particularly with immigrants from the Middle East, but kudos to the American Government for having more balls than the British on this one.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do", should be the epithet of every state/administration regarding policy approach to immigrants/expatriates.

[Elegiac]

Good move. Anything that contributes to the end of the 'ghetto' culture wherein you have immigrants who refuse to immigrate, it a good move. It is an issue that the UK is facing at the moment, particularly with immigrants from the Middle East, but kudos to the American Government for having more balls than the British on this one.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do", should be the epithet of every state/administration regarding policy approach to immigrants/expatriates.

The UK's immigration problems and the US' are not comparable. The hispanics who come here are quite keen on assimilating culturally; eat Big Macs, wear blue jeans, have the while picket fence, all that junk.

[chadwix]

Fake SS numbers among other things. You really think the millions upon millions of illegal immigrants in this country are all living in the hills? Of course they've found ways to own homes.

Edit: I like the attitude of "I can't imagine how it could happen, so you're wrong."

The gov knows their fake, they give you the number. So your telling me people are risking being caught/deported so they have the opportunity to pay taxes? Come on man

[Elegiac]

The gov knows their fake, they give you the number. So your telling me people are risking being caught/deported so they have the opportunity to pay taxes? Come on man

No, but they need a SS number to find employment, own a house, etc; by virtue of having a fake one, it makes them taxable.

[Dacien]

I've been hearing news reports that providing citizenship the undocumented here in Los Angeles would exert "downward pressure" on the pay of low-wage jobs, as immigrant workers flooded in from agricultural areas into the city to find work (sort of a supply and demand type situation).

So they won't be "Taking our jobs!", they'll just be "Lowering our wages!" (for the lower class).

[Garnier Fructis]

The gov knows their fake, they give you the number. So your telling me people are risking being caught/deported so they have the opportunity to pay taxes? Come on man

So they have the opportunity to live in an actual house instead of a tent and sleeping bag? Did I say they did it so they could pay taxes? No I didn't, nice straw man. Paying property taxes is a side effect of owning the home, not the main goal.

[Austilias]

The UK's immigration problems and the US' are not comparable. The hispanics who come here are quite keen on assimilating culturally; eat Big Macs, wear blue jeans, have the while picket fence, all that junk.

That may well so, but you still appear to be quite opposed to measures that legalize the presence of those who are illegally present, and make it harder for immigrants to be illegally present in the first place. These reforms are not "Anti-Immigration" but rather, "Anti-Illegal-Immigration". I fail to see how anyone can disagree with them, and the main policies involved look perfectly reasonable, such as learning English; which frankly one would expect.

[Elegiac]

That may well so, but you still appear to be quite opposed to measures that legalize the presence of those who are illegally present, and make it harder for immigrants to be illegally present in the first place. These reforms are not "Anti-Immigration" but rather, "Anti-Illegal-Immigration". I fail to see how anyone can disagree with them, and the main policies involved look perfectly reasonable, such as learning English; which frankly one would expect.

I'm actually in favor of amnesty, and the introduction of a more permissive immigration system for migrant workers.

The language issue I honestly don't care about on a personal level because I've never run into problems with it. You're hampering yourself by not being bilingual these days.

[Austilias]

I'm actually in favor of amnesty, and the introduction of a more permissive immigration system for migrant workers.

The language issue I honestly don't care about on a personal level because I've never run into problems with it. You're hampering yourself by not being bilingual these days.

Where you'd want a system more permissive, i'd want one more thorough, so that ghettos and unassimilated areas do not come into being in the first place.

As to the language issue, where do you draw the line? Should the natives of respective countries be polyglots? Perhaps like the EU's chief translator, fluent in around 30 languages, so that immigrants do not have to learn the native language? When in Rome, as I will be in June, i'll do my best to speak Italian; and that's just for a holiday. When in America, for what may be the rest of one's life, knowledge of English is not a lot to ask.

[chadwix]

You're hampering yourself by not being bilingual these days.

We invite you in and we now have to learn your language, thanks guys!!! Dont forget to piss on the toilet seat and put your feet on my table.

Assimilation is what has changed immigration into a negative for most countries.

[Elegiac]

Where you'd want a system more permissive, i'd want one more thorough, so that ghettos and unassimilated areas do not come into being in the first place.

As to the language issue, where do you draw the line? Should the natives of respective countries be polyglots? Perhaps like the EU's chief translator, fluent in around 30 languages, so that immigrants do not have to learn the native language? When in Rome, as I will be in June, i'll do my best to speak Italian; and that's just for a holiday. When in America, for what may be the rest of one's life, knowledge of English is not a lot to ask.

Again, America's problem with assimilation is far less severe than the UK's. The ghettos are an issue that only education and social welfare reform can fix.

As I said, I'm not really phased about it. The more languages you speak, more power to you.

[Underverse]

(I know you were asking Didactic, but language is a subject that fascinates me)Personally, I would adopt some of the European methods at teaching languages, and make Spanish a language all students know by middle school, and then add a second language for junior high and high school (Maybe even a third, for those that enjoy languages).

I don't believe Americans benefit from being mono-lingual. (Though, I'm not certain how bad it is, for most Americans to be mono-lingual, as compared to bilingual for example.

When the end goal is communication, it's generally better to have one language

[Sam the Wiser]

If I never plan to leave the US why do I need to learn another language. Yeah it cool and all but it useless knowledge if I'm not going anywhere with it. This same thing can be thrown around the other way. If I went to Mexico I don't expect them all to know English.