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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Anyone else think it's weird to kill Garrosh but not do anything about Sylvanas?

    I'm trying to understand the logic with the rest of the Horde's leaders here, even Lor'themar doesn't like her that much, you'd think after Garrosh is gone they'd give the Alliance the all-clear to steamroll her given the Forsaken haven't ever really been on board with the whole shamanistic vibe the majority of the Horde had.

    Heck, the whole reason the tauren talked everyone else into letting them in was to cure them... and that's NEVER been brought up since.


    I mean I get it she's 'hot' (Despite being dead, gross) she's an elf, she's got mind control, she's really central to their culture, and there's no viable replacement*, but it seems weird to ignore that she's killed a lot of people and done a lot of immoral things that have never been addressed by anyone outside of... Drek'thar.

    EDIT: a clarifier, when I say Sylvanas has mind control, I'm not saying she mind controlled people using the Val'kyr or does so to the Forsaken, Im saying it's an ability she had in WC3 that attracted a lot of people to her, and her banshees have the possession ability, which adds up to a thematic that can draw people to a character that otherwise doesn't make sense.



    *(No, not Koltira, he's LITERALLY done nothing but fail. Ever. He lost to Thassarian, got executed, raised, lost to the Scarlets, had to be rescued by the player, couldn't power his own runeblade, and would've lost at Andorhal AGAIN if Sylvanas hadn't brought the Val'kyr in to bail him out, heck he didn't even want to join the Horde, he basically did so because Thassarian told him to in the DK manga. He doesn't even warm up to the player like Nathanos did, he's nothing but insulting and I hope he's dead >:| )


    Also Edit:
    1. The Forsaken never got 'Forsaken" by anybody, Garithos got killed before he had a chance to backstab or attack them, and the Forsaken joined the Horde before we got to see them interact with the rest of the Alliance.

    2. The fosaken attacks on the alliance are largely unprovoked, there's no evidence ingame that ambermill, hillsbrad, or any of those places were going to attack the Forsaken, and if the forsaken are largely concerned with being left alone and fighting the scourge... what do they need the rest of the continent for then? Moreover why fight for it instead of being diplomatic? We've NEVER seen a forsaken npc ingame discriminated against by an Alliance NPC purely on the basis of undeath. Ever.
    Last edited by Skytotem; 2013-01-30 at 12:22 AM.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  2. #2
    Immortal Destil's Avatar
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    We don't know what effect Sylvanas will have on all of this when she arrives on Pandaria, so that's still up in the air.

    My bet is in 5.3 she's going to be a main character in this whole debacle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
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  3. #3
    Sylvanas has been taking it relatively easy in MoP and letting Garrosh get all the bad attention. She's sly.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Ofcourse it's odd. But I doubt we will see any sort of worth while development. The very notion that the Forsaken will be held accountable for their actions is something I imagine we may never see because it will be swept under the rug because of Garrosh and will be put off because of Alleria in the next expansion.

    She's gone on a plague and necromancy fuelled genocidal campaign that so far hasn't been mentioned once by the Alliance since MoP any serious capacity outside of Rogers brief mentioning of Southshore.

  5. #5
    Traask mentioned that the next Warchief will go hard on Sylvannas for the whole Lich Queen thing and pretty much end her plans. Said a developer mentioned it. I need to ask him where did he find it to see it for myself.

  6. #6
    Sylvanas isn't wastefully spending the Horde's blood and treasure on pursuit of what is basically personal power and glory, Garrosh is. Sylvanas will face no consequences because she, like the other non-orc Horde factions, is suffering under his mis-rule. She will earn brownie points for helping to take him down, which will protect her from consequences a bit longer.

    Plus, after Garrosh goes down, do you think the Horde will have much strength to do internal purges and hold off the Alliance? If anything, the Horde will need Sylvanas more than the other way around, since the Hordes strength in Kalimdor will be trashed but the Forsaken will be intact.

  7. #7
    It's not confirmed that we "kill" Garrosh, we just simply remove him from his position of war chief.

  8. #8
    Unlike Slyvanas, Garrosh does not have a supportive fan base, and has little to no people calling for her head on forums, is mainly why we haven't done anything about her yet.

  9. #9
    Why should the Horde turn against them ?
    Sure they are undead and nobody on Azeroth likes the undead but i guess over time the other Horde races grew accustomed to them.

    She invaded Gilneas but Garrosh ordered her to capture a harbor so i guess it's hard to blame that on her. Especially since she died in the fight.

    She plagebombed Southshore. Again not a nice thing to do and the Alliance hates her for that but from a Horde perspective ? She conquered some land for the Horde and the plagueboming itself... well it`s not nice but on the other hand she conquered the place without any own casualties and, honestly, would it have been so much better if she used the standard Horde burning catapult ammunition ? Dying by chemical weapons vs. burning to death... i don't know.

    And then there is the thing that she uses Val'Kyr to create new undead. But i think that this is a morally grey area. They all are given the choice to live as undead or be put to death again and it's the only way for the forsaken to sustain their race. Now an alliance citizen may say that they are unnatural abominations and should die out but thats more or less the same as a vegan saying that you are a murder for killing animals to eat them. It's just the way this species exists.

    So if not anything new happens i don't see her getting trouble. And who knows, she may even turn out to be the new Warchief (although i hope not).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    Sylvanas has been taking it relatively easy in MoP and letting Garrosh get all the bad attention. She's sly.
    Pretty much what I was going to say.

    If the SoO was planned for the end of Cata, sure. But has Sylvie gotten any relevent screen time in MoP?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    *(No, not Koltira, he's LITERALLY done nothing but fail. Ever. He lost to Thassarian, got executed, raised, lost to the Scarlets, had to be rescued by the player, couldn't power his own runeblade, and would've lost at Andorhal AGAIN if Sylvanas hadn't brought the Val'kyr in to bail him out, heck he didn't even want to join the Horde, he basically did so because Thassarian told him to in the DK manga. He doesn't even warm up to the player like Nathanos did, he's nothing but insulting and I hope he's dead >:| )
    Heh, good point, I actually like this character (up to the point that I created the exact lookalike, I know, not original), but he never did anything right, pretty much like Kalecgos in Tides of War. I kinda wonder when will we know his fate. Was he turned into a abomination? A perfect Death Knight? A sex slave? I need answers!

    On topic, she will most likely play her role during the Siege, and knowing Blizzards writing, she will be kinda redeemed from all the bad stuff she did. I don't know, she will start raising only non-GMO corpse or something.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Pretty much what I was going to say.

    If the SoO was planned for the end of Cata, sure. But has Sylvie gotten any relevent screen time in MoP?
    She's been out of sight and out of mind since the Cata Forsaken starting zone arc (Which I tend to think of as ending in the plague lands).

  13. #13
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Ooh.. hiii people!
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I'm trying to understand the logic with the rest of the Horde's leaders here, even Lor'themar doesn't like her that much, you'd think after Garrosh is gone they'd give the Alliance the all-clear to steamroll her given the Forsaken haven't ever really been on board with the whole shamanistic vibe the majority of the Horde had.
    Few reasons:
    Not liking someone isn't enough reason to kill them.
    They need the Forsaken to keep the Alliance busy on their territory or else they will overrun the Sin'dorei, after that the Alliance could focus ALL their attention on Kalimdor => Horde wouldn't like that.
    Sylvanas isn't murdering/assassinating 'friendly' faction-leaders.
    Nor is she destroying her own people with Sha-energy or anything like it.
    Heck, the whole reason the tauren talked everyone else into letting them in was to cure them... and that's NEVER been brought up since.
    The issue is that most Forsaken don't see it as an illness that needs to be cured.
    To them the "Curse of undeath" should be seen as the "Curse of Flesh" that the Dwarves have.
    I mean I get it she's 'hot' (Despite being dead, gross) she's an elf, she's got mind control, she's really central to their culture, and there's no viable replacement*, but it seems weird to ignore that she's killed a lot of people and done a lot of immoral things that have never been addressed by anyone outside of... Drek'thar.
    I doubt she killed that more people than any other faction and 'immoral' is just a POV.
    Anyway, people hardly care she is 'hot'.
    I have only seen the "Sylvanas is hot"-argument being used by people who hate her and want her dead.

    One could argue that the plague is immoral to use.
    But I don't think the Horde has the right to complain after using that mana-bomb on Theramore.
    Last edited by Kangodo; 2013-01-29 at 11:38 PM.

  14. #14
    I cannot find that blue post or tweet but didn't blizzard release a hint that has something to do under Tirisfal Glades? Undercity? Sylvanas??????

    To good to be true

  15. #15
    Legendary! Quetzl's Avatar
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    i like sylvanas

  16. #16
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    i doubt we actually kill garrosh, just remove him from power. I think Thrall will step in and save garrosh's life bc of his loyalty to grom.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HavocPrime View Post
    Unlike Slyvanas, Garrosh does not have a supportive fan base, and has little to no people calling for her head on forums, is mainly why we haven't done anything about her yet.
    The Alliance player base has been, but they don't count for crap.
    I think Thrall will step in and save garrosh's life bc of his loyalty to grom.
    He wanted to smash his face in with Doomhammer upon hearing what Garrosh did to Theramore.

  18. #18
    She's still biding her time and waiting for the most opportune time to get revenge for him straight up calling her a bitch.

  19. #19
    sylvanas does NOT mind control!

    free will is a paragon of the forsaken society.

    the new forsaken are not mind controlled. they are given an ultimatum: join them or go back to the grave.

    koltira was not mind controlled. sylvanas just sent him to lose the "weakness" of friendship.

    the forsaken may do a lot of bad things, but mind control is not one of them.

    interestingly anduin appears to be fond of mind control lol
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  20. #20
    The biggest difference between the two is that Sylvanas isn't Warchief, and hasn't intentionally tried to kill members of her own faction (at least, not ones that weren't justified).

    The Horde "rebellion" isn't about doing whats just, its about doing whats right for the Horde.

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