Sen. Paul Introduces Audit the Fed Bill

[Wells]

The Fed isn't really a private institution. Its a hybrid.

[obdigore]

Enjoy your bedtime reading.

Where did you pull this information from? You also failed to list who blocked the nominations. You don't seem to understand how a discussion like this works.

[Buckwald]

I don't see how that list equates what the dems did to what the GOP is doing.

In fact numbers have already been provided showing just how disproportionate the gap is. I think at this point its pretty obvious that the GOP breaks government so they can run on government being broken.

That wasn't what you argued or asked for. I provided you with the information and you still changed your argument. You did exactly what you always do, Wells. BOTH sides break the government.

[Linkedblade]

This is the last thing we need. The Fed is already more transparent than they have ever been.
They have been very clear about what they are doing with "credit facilities, securities purchases, and quantitative easing activities".
If you think they are doing one thing while saying another, that would be an entirely different issue.
(It would also be next to impossible as the bond market and banks would know long before congress did!)

The US Fed has done a supremely better job than any other monetary authority in the world during this crisis.
I shudder to think how they would have done if they had to answer to guys like Rand Paul before doing anything.

Funny you should say that. As we are the supplier of most of the world banks, if we appear to do well the market seems well. That isn't the case.

[Wells]

That wasn't what you argued or asked for. I provided you with the information and you still changed your argument. You did exactly what you always do, Wells. BOTH sides break the government.

I haven't changed my argument.

Can you show me where the Democrats are intentionally breaking government?

[Linkedblade]

The Fed isn't really a private institution. Its a hybrid.

I mostly just said that. They gave a private institution the power over public sector monetary policy. That alone is enough to say that it's neither.

[Buckwald]

Where did you pull this information from? You also failed to list who blocked the nominations. You don't seem to understand how a discussion like this works.

You're serious? ALL blocked nominations come from the house or the senate. Lists are compiled from information from senate.gov, organized here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._controversies

[Hiricine]

The FED is far more complex than you make it out to be, and their use of monetary policy involves quite a bit more than that. That said, if you really have faith in Austrian economics I don't really see us coming to an agreement on economic matters.

The fed is actually fairly simple. It tries to stimulate the economy by lowering interest rates to create "demand". Supposedly, its supposed to raise interest rates when the gap in demand is corrected, however, it generally just keeps lowering rates. The lower rates create money which basically fund treasuries so the government can keep spending. On top of that, the fed might directly buy treasuries (QE1 and QE2) to monetize the debt and keep interest rates low.

So really, while there might be smoke and mirrors behind it, the Fed is a vehicle to serve one purpose--- to facilitate government spending through the devaluation of money. The fed's actions over the last 5,10,15 years have all led to that end.

[Buckwald]

I haven't changed my argument.

Can you show me where the Democrats are intentionally breaking government?

I can. But, I won't. Doesn't that just drive you crazy? It's like I'm breaking a discussion on purpose!

edit:

Here's ONE. Just for you: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...int-to-romney/

[Wells]

I can. But, I won't. Doesn't that just drive you crazy? It's like I'm breaking a discussion on purpose!

I don't think that's the word for it but ok.

[Linkedblade]

The fed is actually fairly simple. It tries to stimulate the economy by lowering interest rates to create "demand". Supposedly, its supposed to raise interest rates when the gap in demand is corrected, however, it generally just keeps lowering rates. The lower rates create money which basically fund treasuries so the government can keep spending. On top of that, the fed might directly buy treasuries (QE1 and QE2) to monetize the debt and keep interest rates low.

So really, while there might be smoke and mirrors behind it, the Fed is a vehicle to serve one purpose--- to facilitate government spending through the devaluation of money. The fed's actions over the last 5,10,15 years have all led to that end.

Not to mention that those low interests rates cause people to not being able to save. Imagine having a savings account with an interest rate of 0.015% APY. It might as well be 0%.

That causes other problems like:
-Elderly not being able to save for retirement.
-People losing faith in banks.
-More dependency on handouts.
-etc.

[Kasierith]

The fed is actually fairly simple.

I'm aware of the functions of the FED, and the tools that it has at its disposal. It's still more multifaceted and complicated than the poster I quoted indicated.

[Wells]

I don't see how that link is an example of the Democrats breaking government intentionally.

[obdigore]

You're serious? ALL blocked nominations come from the house or the senate. Lists are compiled from information from senate.gov, organized here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._controversies

And this still doesn't prove that the Dems block anywhere near as much of anything as the GOP does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cl..._controversies

List of failed appellate nominees

    United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
        Robert Raymar (of New Jersey), to seat vacated by H. Lee Sarokin - Judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Maryanne Trump Barry.
        Stephen Orlofsky (of New Jersey), to seat vacated by Morton Ira Greenberg - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Michael Chertoff.
        Robert J. Cindrich (of Pennsylvania), to seat vacated by Timothy K. Lewis - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee D. Brooks Smith.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit
        Andre M. Davis (of Maryland), to seat vacated by Francis D. Murnaghan, Jr. - Davis was nominated on October 6, 2000, during the final months of the Clinton presidency. The Senate took no action on the nomination, which was returned to the President on December 15, 2000. After Clinton's unsuccessful nomination of Davis, President George W. Bush unsuccessfully nominated Claude Allen and Rod J. Rosenstein to succeed Judge Murnaghan. Davis was renominated to the same seat by President Barack Obama in April 2009 and confirmed that year in November.
        James A. Beaty, Jr. (of North Carolina), to seat vacated by James Dickson Phillips, Jr. - Judgeship was eventually filled by Obama nominee Albert Diaz of North Carolina.
        James A. Wynn, Jr. (of North Carolina), to seat vacated by James Dickson Phillips, Jr. - Judgeship never filled by any Bush nominee; Wynn was renominated by President Barack Obama to the same seat in November 2009 and was confirmed by the Senate in August 2010.
        S. Elizabeth Gibson (of North Carolina), to seat vacated by Samuel James Ervin III - Gibson was nominated on October 26, 2000, during the final months of the Clinton presidency. The Senate took no action on the nomination, which was returned to the President on December 15, 2000. The judgeship was later filled by Bush nominee Allyson Kay Duncan.
        J. Rich Leonard (of North Carolina), to newly created seat - Judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Roger Gregory (of Virginia) after being renominated by Bush in 2001.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit
        Alston Johnson (of Louisiana), to seat vacated by John Malcolm Duhé, Jr. - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Edith Brown Clement.
        Jorge Rangel (of Texas), to seat vacated by William Lockhart Garwood - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Priscilla Owen.
        Enrique Moreno (of Texas), to seat vacated by William Lockhart Garwood - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Priscilla Owen.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
        Helene White (of Michigan), to seat vacated by Damon Keith - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Richard A. Griffin; White was eventually confirmed to the Sixth Circuit when renominated by Bush in 2008.
        Kathleen McCree Lewis (of Michigan), to seat vacated by Cornelia Groefsema Kennedy - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Susan Bieke Neilson.
        Kent Markus (of Ohio), to seat vacated by David Aldrich Nelson - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Jeffrey S. Sutton.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit
        Bonnie Campbell (of Iowa), to seat vacated by George Gardner Fagg - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Michael J. Melloy.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
        James Ware (of California), to seat vacated by J. Clifford Wallace - Judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Kim McLane Wardlaw.
        Barry Goode (of California), to seat vacated by Charles E. Wiggins - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Carlos T. Bea.
        James E. Duffy, Jr. (of Hawaii), to seat vacated by Cynthia Holcomb Hall (of California) - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Richard Clifton (of Hawaii).

    United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit
        James Lyons (of Colorado), to seat vacated by John Carbone Porfilio - Lyons was nominated on September 22, 1999. Both Senators from Colorado, Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Wayne Allard, were members of the Republican Party. Senator Campbell was supportive of the Lyons nomination, but Allard withheld his support and described Lyons as a "political operative" due to his representation of the Clintons during Whitewater. Lyons' nomination was withdrawn on June 6, 2000. Clinton subsequently nominated Christine Arguello, also unsuccessfully. The judgeship was later filled by Bush nominee Timothy M. Tymkovich.
        Christine Arguello (of Colorado), to seat vacated by John Carbone Porfilio - Arguello was nominated on July 27, 2000, shortly after Clinton withdrew his earlier nomination of James Lyons. The Senate took no action on the nomination, which was returned to the President on December 15, 2000. The judgeship was later filled by Bush nominee Timothy M. Tymkovich. Arguello was eventually confirmed to a district court seat when nominated by Bush in 2008.

    United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
        Charles "Bud" Stack (of Florida), to seat vacated by Peter T. Fay - Judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Stanley Marcus.

    United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
        Elena Kagan (of the District of Columbia), to seat vacated by James L. Buckley - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee John G. Roberts, Jr.
        Allen Snyder (of Maryland), to seat vacated by Patricia Wald - Judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Thomas B. Griffith.

Failed district court nominees

During his presidency, Clinton nominated 45 people for 42 different federal district judgeships to federal district courts who never were confirmed by the U.S. Senate. Like the appellate court nominations mentioned above, many of these nominees were blocked by Republicans either in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was controlled by Republicans for six of the eight years of Clinton’s presidency, or on the Senate floor, where one nominee, Ronnie L. White, was defeated by senators.

Of the 42 federal district judgeship vacancies in question, 17 eventually were filled with different Clinton nominees, 24 were filled by nominees of President George W. Bush and one never ended up becoming vacant because the district judge holding it never received confirmation to be elevated to an appellate court. Of Clinton's 45 failed district court nominees, four, Legrome D. Davis, David S. Cercone, Dolly M. Gee and Sue E. Myerscough, subsequently were nominated by Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama to federal district judgeships and then confirmed by the Senate.

The failed Clinton district court nominees:

    United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico
        Anabelle Rodriguez (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Jay A. Garcia-Gregory)[3]

    United States District Court for the Northern District of New York
        Clarence J. Sundram (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee David N. Hurd)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania
        Frederica Massiah-Jackson, followed by Robert A. Freedberg (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Petrese B. Tucker)
        Legrome D. Davis (judgeship later filled by Davis himself, when he was renominated by George W. Bush in 2002 and then confirmed by the Senate)
        S. David Fineman (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Cynthia M. Rufe)
        Stephen B. Lieberman (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Timothy J. Savage)

    United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania
        Patrick J. Toole (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee A. Richard Caputo)

    United States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania
        John H. Bingler, Jr., followed by Lynette Norton (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Arthur J. Schwab)
        David S. Cercone (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Robert J. Cindrich was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Cindrich never was confirmed to that post before Clinton's presidency ended; Cercone later was nominated to a different seat in the Western District by Bush and then confirmed by the Senate)
        Harry P. Litman (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Joy Flowers Conti)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina
        J. Rich Leonard (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee James C. Dever III)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas
        Cheryl B. Wattley (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Sam A. Lindsay)
        Michael D. Schattman (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Barbara M. Lynn)

    United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas
        Ricardo Morado (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Andrew S. Hanen)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Ohio
        Steven D. Bell (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee John R. Adams)

    United States District Court for the Central District of Illinois
        Sue E. Myerscough (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Michael P. McCuskey) (Myerscough later renominated by President Obama to a different seat on the same court and confirmed in 2011)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois
        Jeffrey D. Colman (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Ronald A. Guzman)

    United States District Court for the Southern District of Illinois
        Wenona Y. Whitfield (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee David R. Herndon)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri
        Ronnie L. White (Nomination rejected by the Senate) (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Henry Edward Autrey)

    United States District Court for the Western District of Missouri
        Leland M. Shurin (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Gary A. Fenner)

    United States District Court for the District of Nebraska
        Steven E. Achelpohl (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Laurie Smith Camp)

    United States District Court for the Central District of California
        R. Samuel Paz (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee George H. King)
        Dolly M. Gee (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee John F. Walter; Gee later was nominated and confirmed to a different seat on the Central District by Obama)
        Fredric D. Woocher (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Percy Anderson)

    United States District Court for the Eastern District of California
        Marian M. Johnston (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Morrison C. England Jr.)

    United States District Court for the Southern District of California
        Judith D. McConnell (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Barry Ted Moskowitz
        Lynne R. Lasry (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Thomas J. Whelan)

    United States District Court for the District of Hawaii
        John S. W. Lim (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee John Michael Seabright)

    United States District Court for the District of Idaho
        John R. Tait (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Lynn Winmill)

    United States District Court for the District of Montana
        Richard W. Anderson (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Sam E. Haddon)

    United States District Court for the District of Nevada
        Linda B. Riegle (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Larry R. Hicks)

    United States District Court for the District of Colorado
        Patricia A. Coan (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Robert E. Blackburn)

    United States District Court for the District of Kansas
        K. Gary Sebelius (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Julie A. Robinson)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma
        Frank H. McCarthy (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Claire Eagan)

    United States District Court for the Western District of Oklahoma
        Valerie K. Couch (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Stephen P. Friot)
        Melvin C. Hall (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Joe L. Heaton)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Alabama
        John D. Snodgrass (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Charles Lynwood Smith, Jr.
        Kenneth O. Simon (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Karon O. Bowdre)

    United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida
        Theodore Klein, followed by Bruce W. Greer (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Donald M. Middlebrooks)

    United States District Court for the Northern District of Georgia
        Gail S. Tusan (judgeship later filled by Clinton nominee Beverly B. Martin)

    United States District Court for the District of Columbia
        James W. Klein (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee John D. Bates)
        Rhonda C. Fields (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Reggie Walton)

[Linkedblade]

I can. But, I won't. Doesn't that just drive you crazy? It's like I'm breaking a discussion on purpose!

edit:

Here's ONE. Just for you: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...int-to-romney/

Fillibusters and other BS is irrelevant to the Federal Reserve. Romney (who?) is completely irrelevant, he hasn't been a member of any form of government in years. Mentioning Obama in this thread is irrelevant unless you are talking about whether or not you believe he would sign such a bill.

If you support the bill make sure you contact your local senator to convince them to co-sign or vote in favor of it when the time comes. If you need help contacting such a person PM me and I'll get you contact information for your senator's office.

[Buckwald]

And this still doesn't prove that the Dems block anywhere near as much of anything as the GOP does.

Again, I never said it was equal. I said both sides do it.

[Linkedblade]

<snip>

Please stop spamming this thread with wikipedia quotes that have nothing to do with the topic. . .

[Buckwald]

Fillibusters and other BS is irrelevant to the Federal Reserve. Romney (who?) is completely irrelevant, he hasn't been a member of any form of government in years. Mentioning Obama in this thread is irrelevant unless you are talking about whether or not you believe he would sign such a bill.

If you support the bill make sure you contact your local senator to convince them to co-sign or vote in favor of it when the time comes. If you need help contacting such a person PM me and I'll get you contact information for your senator's office.

Exactly. Why we are talking about filibustering and GOP is the only side to "break government" is beyond me.

[Wells]

Again, I never said it was equal. I said both sides do it.

Repeating "both sides block stuff!" is a) missing the point and b) a false conflation.

[oblivionx]

Exactly. Why we are talking about filibustering and GOP is the only side to "break government" is beyond me.

It's called being emboldened by the knowledge they can derail threads with impunity.