Shamans Dieing out?

[Slappyjoe]

Well, "absolutely fine" is a pretty big stretch. They're not at risk of dying out or whatever, but they're not stellar at the moment.

[Viperk8b]

That's not the closest tool atm. Not remotely. All those numbers vaguely say is that shaman alts are less popular then some other classes.

One of the better tools is raidbots. You can see the total number of parses by spec. In 10N (most populous format) elemental is #7 out of 23 dps specs w/r to # of samples.

The Cataclysm warlock was in a bad place. Shaman are absolutely fine.

I only posted that to show an idea on the overall desirability to play the class not how they stand in end game raiding.

[Oneleg]

Depends on how you view it.

T11 was horrible
T12 was pretty good
T13 was rather average

They added the Unleashed Lightning Glyph in Cata and spamable Cl.

In terms of PvE, Cata was a better expansion for Elemental than Wotlk for example.

And it was fun being a tesla coil, but they didn't bump it up to keep up with other class's for AoE, I used to blow people away, now I try to keep up. Not asking to be top of the charts, just asking to have something close in numbers with the others that are in equal gear. I enjoy elemental, when played to my full potential using shocks, silences, heals, earthquake for helping to mitigate a little damage with the knockdown, its a blast. But I hate having to do less damage because we have "utility"

[Deleted]

Shamans are fine, prosperous and not dying out. Slight exception: Elemental (PvE dps, PvP surviv.). But I guess Blizzard fixes them anytime soon.

[Deleted]

5mans are not exactly relevant (was much more relevant in previous expansions). Nowadays they're a small part of the content, raid is much more relevant. For the casual player, yes OK it is more relevant but then still what does a casual search for in 5man after being full 463? LFR is where it happens for them. That said the OKish damage from LB and nice burst & ranged cleave the ele shaman has I can imagine them doing well in 5mans.

And it was fun being a tesla coil, but they didn't bump it up to keep up with other class's for AoE, I used to blow people away, now I try to keep up. Not asking to be top of the charts, just asking to have something close in numbers with the others that are in equal gear. I enjoy elemental, when played to my full potential using shocks, silences, heals, earthquake for helping to mitigate a little damage with the knockdown, its a blast. But I hate having to do less damage because we have "utility"

Hybrid Tax 2.0. Of the 5 full-hybrid classes, 4 out of 7 specs are well below the median (on Patchwerk): shadow priest, elemental shaman, balance druid, retribution paladin. The three above the median are feral, enhancement shaman and windwalker monk (all 3 melee). But enhancement is rather rare in 10m.

Aside from that, elemental shaman and shadow priest scale very bad with their stats. Which means you're better off giving the gear to another class who can benefit from it, and we will do less damage as we progress throughout the tier. Although I main a shadow priest and not an elemental shaman, I can only hope it changes for both classes. I don't wish the current state of shadow (and from what I understand, elemental as well) upon my worst enemy.

That said, enhancement is solid (tho rather rare in 10m) and so is resto shaman (esp in 25m).

[Endus]

There are only 3 hybrid classes, Druid, Monk, and Paladin... The definition of hybrid class is that they can be a damage dealer, a tank, or a healer.

Not true, in WoW terms. A "hybrid" is any class that can fill more than one role. For WoW, that means every class that can either tank or heal.

[Verraxe]

Not true, in WoW terms. A "hybrid" is any class that can fill more than one role. For WoW, that means every class that can either tank or heal.

I had deleted my previous post because it really is a matter of perspective and I didn't want to bother with it. But since you managed to capture it in the like 3 minutes (or less) it was there...

There are 11 classes... 7 of which fit your definition of hybrid, which would be Death Knight, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, and Warrior. Seems a bit silly to call them all hybrid.

Hybrid should, in my opinion, refer to only those that could potentially fulfill any role. Just as "Pure" class refers to those that only fulfill only 1 role.

Either way you look at it, there are either 3 hybrid classes or 7 hybrid classes.... not 5 :P

[Snakebyte]

I rarely take the time to post on any forums, mostly just read while drinking my coffee but here goes....

First off, I have a 90 of everything and i play them all. I used to be huge in PvE and held my own no matter if I was elem/enh or resto. Just knowing the class and the correct rotation would easily put me at the top of the dps/healing meters. For the longest, I considered shaman my main and spent more time playing that character than any other.

Then Blizz just sorta 'pooped' on us. It wasn't all at once but with things like totems now being dropped one at a dam time and most other healing classes getting huge buffs, we got left behind. Mostly in the PvP area. I can still hang in there with the serious raiding crowd and not be at the bottom but in PvP it's a different story.

If you're not rolling resto in PvP, you're not wanted. 2v2 arena may be the exception but you can't even earn a rating in 2's to get the best gear. Try getting your enhance or elemental into a rated battleground (which I'm sure plenty of you have). It's impossible and if the other team is smart, you get global'd before your healers can even react. Survivability is a joke to dps shamans at the moment and our dps isn't that good either. Just give me my one button-4 totem drop ability back and I can live with the rest. I can understand healing tide totem being dropped on certain times when needed and things like grounding totem but to have to drop, fire totem, healing totem, earthbind/stone bulwark.... where is that capacitor totem or should I use stormlash..... BAH, I'M DEAD.

Again, I play all other classes, mostly just PvP now and on a daily basis. All other classes have a much better survival rate not to mention dps is way better. So even tho say DKs seem a little squishy right now, their dps more than makes up for it because they can kill you first. Pretty much every other toon I play is a faceroll in PvP but to be good at enh/elem, you better dam well know ALL your abilities and how/when to use them and then hope RNG is on your team.

[Slappyjoe]

Hybrid should, in my opinion, refer to only those that could potentially fulfill any role. Just as "Pure" class refers to those that only fulfill only 1 role.

I don't get this. Using this logic, classes that fill more than one role but don't fill them all don't fit into either the "pure" or "hybrid" category. So... what would they be? The word hybrid doesn't exactly have a controversial definition. If a class can spec into more than one role, it's a hybrid.

[Endus]

I don't get this. Using this logic, classes that fill more than one role but don't fill them all don't fit into either the "pure" or "hybrid" category. So... what would they be? The word hybrid doesn't exactly have a controversial definition. If a class can spec into more than one role, it's a hybrid.

It's also a definition that we have the advantage of crystal-clear blue posts defining it, so this isn't a community-developed term;

We only recognize two types of classes for PvE purposes:

Can respec to fulfill a different role = hybrid.
Cannot respec to fulfill a different role = pure.

The roles are tank, healing and damage.

In our design, having two healing trees (priest) or half a tanking tree (druid) or three dps trees (DK) does not put these classes in different categories of hybridness. A hybrid is a hybrid.
Source

Now, that's ancient history; it's from 2009, but the point is, "hybrid" has a clear and specific meaning in WoW. We can't go changing that definition.

[Teriz]

You Shaman should be thankful for the lack of changes. Monks for example have been enduring one hell of a roller coaster ride. Healing Monks in particular are really going through the ringer.

Enjoy your stability my Shaman brothers!

[Deleted]

I had deleted my previous post because it really is a matter of perspective and I didn't want to bother with it. But since you managed to capture it in the like 3 minutes (or less) it was there...

There are 11 classes... 7 of which fit your definition of hybrid, which would be Death Knight, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, and Warrior. Seems a bit silly to call them all hybrid.

Hybrid should, in my opinion, refer to only those that could potentially fulfill any role. Just as "Pure" class refers to those that only fulfill only 1 role.

Either way you look at it, there are either 3 hybrid classes or 7 hybrid classes.... not 5 :P

Its not so much a matter of perspective, its pretty clear what you meant.

Its just 2 extrems. There are 5 classes who are full hybrid. 1 of these classes (druid) can perform 4 roles (if we differentiate between melee and ranged). The DK and warrior for example are not full hybrid because they cannot heal. And the hybrid tax comment refers to those 5 full hybrid classes. Specifically, the ranged DPS ones and retri.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 01:16 AM ----------

You Shaman should be thankful for the lack of changes. Monks for example have been enduring one hell of a roller coaster ride. Healing Monks in particular are really going through the ringer.

Enjoy your stability my Shaman brothers!

PvE-wise healing monks were completely OP and were put into place. They're still viable. Elemental shaman and shadow priest are much less viable. DPS monks and tank monks are in a good state as well.

[Krekko]

Dotshock/bus shock? Patch 1.11? I think that might have been at the same time.

Resulting in close to the biggest singular reason banning of players from the forums.

Yeah, I guess I should have said "for the most part", we've lapsed at several points. But as a general rule, their forums have always tended to be less active than other classes. I guess it's more the "pent up until completely losing it" kinda deal.

And the almighty middle finger ASCII spam-a-thon that happened back in wrath (I believe it was then).
I had never seen so much anger and hate on the wow forums until that time (which is a hard thing to say lol). The shaman community was livid over how their class was handled.

On a related note, I personally believe the shaman class started regressing when they revamped the enhance tree and took away the 2hand viability that everyone enjoyed shamans for. I did like how the tree progressed (minus the tanky talents going away) in a fundamental way, but they could have easily done with enhance what they did with frost for dks; give them both a dual wield AND 2handed viable way of playing. And they still can. Even warriors get to use 1h and 2h for fury dw now. (2handed fury sure was fun in vanilla though).

Back on topic,
I think the "quiet" forums doesnt really explain much. There could be many reasons for it (class forums always go up and down with time in regards to activeness), but mainly its probably because there isnt an outright appalling problem that the shaman players need to complain about (rightfully or not). The class has its issues, but its not so big as to cause a furnace of forum posts ad nauseam.

While I was quite sad at the loss of 2her viability at the end of Vanilla (Though I've grown to enjoy dual wielding, I HATED the concept at first) I do agree, they should have managed to maintain a viability for 2hers as well. Unstoppable Force RIP.

I think for myself, however, what started the degression of the Shaman class was not so much in terms of Enhancement, but Elemental (I gues a bit partial because I mostly played Elemental), it's it's lack of progression and additional variance. I always felt that Elemental was just so basic when Enhancement was getting the basic Elemental toolset and then some, taking it one step further. It got extra bells and whistles and Elemental kind of just stood still.

I dedicatedly raided high end content in both Vanilla and TBC as a Ret Paladin and an Elemental Shaman (Weird times man). In Vanilla I would raid 4 hours on my paladin, then switch my account and go to Horde side and play my shaman for the next 4 hours 5 days a week. It was grueling but a ton of fun and did this through most of Naxx. In TBC I raided as Ret and Elemental on a less vigorous schedule thanks to being able to be Alliance on both chars now. I started my shaman in mid t5 this time, but then raided t5-Sunwell back and forth between the two depending what we needed. I had a BLAST doing this, and while Elemental wasn't much different from Vanilla, I had high dreams of it going places, and with chain Heroism either way I was having too much fun to really care.

WotLK was supposed to be them getting Elemental right! They had time to figure out what to do, what to change what to add to make it POP. But still, once again, it fell flat. That's fine, I was more consumed with my Paladin alone this time around. Further along into college I had less and less time to dedicate to both characters for full raiding, and I was pushing content in a more progressed guild, I'd just level my shaman and do what I could, and hope some patch would fix it. Still nothing changed, then Cata was announced, Thrall, a Shaman at the center of it, this HAD to be the time, they GOT Elemental this time anddddddd still..... not much. Baby steps each time but nothing to bring life back to a spec which hasn't gone too far.

MoP brings us to a much better spot combined with the steps we have taken before but I truthfully can't say we're in a good spot, or even an acceptable spot. We're still behind most specs, and it feels so lackluster. A spec I once cared so much for is one I struggle to level each expansion more and more, just barely getting by. It has no major identity, or it's identity is so diluted and shared that it feels dumbed down (once again, I feel like It's Enhancement Basic Package).

Perhaps I'm too out touch now, but I just think what they've done is too little too late. So I can kind of see what you're saying at the last part. Sure, there is nothing appalling, nothing truthfully sticking out, but there is nothing really to go off of either.

It's like taking a survey. The service wasn't bad enough or good enough to give it major feedback, it was just so.... alright that any feedback you'd give would be indifferent. That's how I feel about the class, I guess because I'm thinking from more of an Elemental PoV. It's just alright, just barely, sure, but still it is just alright. Do I scream and yell? No, I'm not offended by it. Do I praise and oggle it? No, I'm not moved by it. It's just left at such an incredibly indifferent place.

[Vulcanasm]

Perhaps I'm too out touch now, but I just think what they've done is too little too late.

This is exactly how I see it. Every time a new patch comes out, I think "this'll be it, they'll finally realize Shamans are a mish-mash of 10-year-old ideas and nuke the DPS specs from orbit". Then, every time I read the notes, I think "...or not".

I played Enh from Vanilla through early Cata (as my main class/spec for most of WOTLK). I'm main spec Ele now and thinking of simply giving it up for my Monk...or going back to Rift, really. Honestly, the more classes I play, the more MMOs I try, the more it becomes obvious that Shaman DPS should be reworked from scratch.

Ele feels like a stripped-down Mage with all defenses replaced by toys. Comparing any Mage spec to an Elemental Shaman is like comparing a Ferrari Testarossa to a Honda Civic, seeing the Honda gets good gas mileage, and concluding they're equivalent.

Don't even get me started on Enh comparisons. Enhancement is like those old NES games where the controller doesn't work right.

[LowKeyedup]

I'm about to level my 85 ele Shaman to be my main in 5.2. You either love them or you don't. I always try the new hotness and so I leveled a WW and raided with it a little but it's boring and melee (which I am sick of for pve). Nothing beats that lava burst animation.

[Deleted]

You Shaman should be thankful for the lack of changes. Monks for example have been enduring one hell of a roller coaster ride. Healing Monks in particular are really going through the ringer.

Enjoy your stability my Shaman brothers!

I dont know, should i be thankful for staying in bad state? The answer is obvious. And if you read patch notes atm there was just few shaman changes, for elem the changes are step in good direction, but its nothing compared to the crazy buffs for monks. GG ring of peace etc etc.

[Veyne]

Shaman have always been one of the least played classes. The attention they get from the developers reflects that (or maybe vic versa). I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they got a revamp soon. I hope they don't mess with Enhancement too much. Maybe stream line the spec JUST A LITTLE.

[Sealed]

Shaman have always been one of the least played classes.

As far as I recall, rogue and warlock are the least played classes by a good margin (bit above 6% population each), with shaman near the median (about 9%). Granted, those numbers might be outdated.

[Krekko]

As far as I recall, rogue and warlock are the least played classes by a good margin (bit above 6% population each), with shaman near the median (about 9%). Granted, those numbers might be outdated.

I mean, I've never paid attention to class numbers but....

By the amount I raged in TBC from being Stunlocked from 100% to death constantly by Rogues and Fear DoT Fear DoT Fear'd by Warlocks I feel that this was way off.

[Draenox]

I mean, I've never paid attention to class numbers but....

By the amount I raged in TBC from being Stunlocked from 100% to death constantly by Rogues and Fear DoT Fear DoT Fear'd by Warlocks I feel that this was way off.

Those númbers were after half an expansion of being mediocre to bad though, announced just before DS if I recall. Much has happened since the glory days of mace stuns.