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  1. #121
    The Lightbringer Mall Security's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Some if not alot DO go in for power reasons these days sadly.

    Also a damn good point, so being heavy handed and going over board isn't great either maybe that is what happened here, but it is a good dialog to have.
    If at first choice is given, and then it was taken away, then it was never really a choice to begin with, similarly the same can be said true for any kind of rights or freedoms, these can never be privileges bestowed upon the few and denied to the many for it is a practice of tyranny. Never trust any man who feels you should beg nor ask to be treated fairly or to be respected.

  2. #122
    Man, when I was 10 I raided my brothers bedroom for fireworks just so we had actual "grenades" to play soldier with.
    Or we played soccer where if you would get played through the legs, you were free to get kicked by everybody untill you reached the safe zone which was guarded by at least 5 people ready to kick you on the shin or if you were unlucky, your nuts. And this was on the schoolyard while teachers were present.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    True, but let us be specific, your imagining and it being found out obviously from you that you are pretending to throw a grenade and BLOW people up, I don't think a kid getting a time out for that or a serious conversation about what is okay is HARMING anybody.
    Suspecni0on however...and actually most kids i knew and even know(i work with kids) are dumb enough to think that way.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 10:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolson13 View Post
    Man, when I was 10 I raided my brothers bedroom for fireworks just so we had actual "grenades" to play soldier with.
    Or we played soccer where if you would get played through the legs, you were free to get kicked by everybody untill you reached the safe zone which was guarded by at least 5 people ready to kick you on the shin or if you were unlucky, your nuts. And this was on the schoolyard while teachers were present.
    Damn man that's nuts. Bet you guys were some tough little buggers by the end.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Oh sorry been up all day haven;t been sleeping right lately.
    my post could have been more cleanly worded

    basically I was just trying to say that the kind of organized activities like those you took part in, or the previous suggestion of boxing, teach consequence and responsibility that would mitigate some of the problems mentioned in this thread

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    my post could have been more cleanly worded
    LOL nah it's cool. Insomnia is a bitch..Just glad i can still think as clearly as i do LOL.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    My opinion is it is better for it to be a group thing, not return bullying with bullying, but to make it clear, that bullying is a sort of behavior not acceptable.
    that doesn't work at all in real life. That's dumb advice that councilors give to bullied kids because to tell the real truth in getting a bully to leave you alone would likely result in councilor being fired. Bullies don't need to physically bully you in order to torment you and they know it... they also subconsciencely know that the only thing that would make them stop is violence and they use school's zero tolerance policies to it's full effect. They bully to the maximum allowed knowing full well if the kid they are bullying strikes back.. it's the kid that strikes back who is going to be punished.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Suspecni0on however...and actually most kids i knew and even know(i work with kids) are dumb enough to think that way.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 10:15 AM ----------



    Damn man that's nuts. Bet you guys were some tough little buggers by the end.


    True don't want to kill the patient to cure the sickness, and maybe a month is a bit over the top based on the only information we have now, but yeah, it is good to have the conversation and people not thinking inside their own bubbles. Progress isn't easy.
    If at first choice is given, and then it was taken away, then it was never really a choice to begin with, similarly the same can be said true for any kind of rights or freedoms, these can never be privileges bestowed upon the few and denied to the many for it is a practice of tyranny. Never trust any man who feels you should beg nor ask to be treated fairly or to be respected.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    that doesn't work at all in real life. That's dumb advice that councilors give to bullied kids because to tell the real truth in getting a bully to leave you alone would likely result in councilor being fired. Bullies don't need to physically bully you in order to torment you and they know it... they also subconsciencely know that the only thing that would make them stop is violence and they use school's zero tolerance policies to it's full effect. They bully to the maximum allowed knowing full well if the kid they are bullying strikes back.. it's the kid that strikes back who is going to be punished.
    And if the bully becomes physical and someone else does then BOTH are in trouble provided the bully can;t spin it right which the often can.

    I like to paraphrase a famous line for this sorta thing.

    "When good men are ALLOWED to do nothing evil flourishes"

    more extreme than is required using the term evil but it still applies. Essentially i feel we have moved froma period where good men might choose not to act to instead not even being ALLOWED to anymore.

    Thus creating an apathetic society. Also probably one reason the idea of standing up for/protecting others has become negative as well as increased passivity and various other issues.

    In essence we are creating a large number of social problems by trying to solve things that have gone on for millenia.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    that doesn't work at all in real life. That's dumb advice that councilors give to bullied kids because to tell the real truth in getting a bully to leave you alone would likely result in councilor being fired. Bullies don't need to physically bully you in order to torment you and they know it... they also subconsciencely know that the only thing that would make them stop is violence and they use school's zero tolerance policies to it's full effect. They bully to the maximum allowed knowing full well if the kid they are bullying strikes back.. it's the kid that strikes back who is going to be punished.

    Ok, I see your point but as Sorrior brought up in another situation, sometimes the way to deal with it was for faculty to simply go " Well Not at School" and the bully might proceed to beat the shit out of some kid off school grounds.



    My experience and this is my own bias, but from what i seen useally the bully i experienced, was the pack mentality, sometimes having that notion that EVERYBODY is in on it or against you always seem to me to be a more powerful motivator, one that maybe could be used for good, and maybe snuff out some of these altercations before they start or maybe manage a way to focus the aggression in less destructive ways.
    If at first choice is given, and then it was taken away, then it was never really a choice to begin with, similarly the same can be said true for any kind of rights or freedoms, these can never be privileges bestowed upon the few and denied to the many for it is a practice of tyranny. Never trust any man who feels you should beg nor ask to be treated fairly or to be respected.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    True don't want to kill the patient to cure the sickness, and maybe a month is a bit over the top based on the only information we have now, but yeah, it is good to have the conversation and people not thinking inside their own bubbles. Progress isn't easy.
    Oh my parents talked to me when i started watching the ANIMATED Robocop and i wasn't allowed to watch batman as a kid(my dad had issues with him and assumed it was based on the super violent 80s comics) so yeah there is that. But still these reactions are just over the top.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I have a great imagination, but i don't have to imagine a 7th grader going to school with a gun next, and deciding to shoot some of his classmates, because you see that is real that does happen, and if we aren't going to say it is video games, then we damn well better atleast try to find out how to curb this behavior before even starts now. Because Kids didn't always go to school with firearms and start shooing their class mates, and while it isn't happening everyday, even the one in a few times it does, innocent people are being impacted by what may have started off by an innocent imagination.



    The kid isnt in prison, he isn't jail, he isnt harmed he got a suspension, and instead of taking the time to point fingers and the school making taking a little time to explain to this child why that sort of behavior or thinking iis alarming, chances are better this sort of thing wont be done by him, and will be curbed from happening by others.


    And yes Fantasy can have a rich charector and story from which to learn from, but Fantasy can also be a way of telling an entertaining story.

    Little kids take guns to school because of irresponsible parents. No other reason.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok, I see your point but as Sorrior brought up in another situation, sometimes the way to deal with it was for faculty to simply go " Well Not at School" and the bully might proceed to beat the shit out of some kid off school grounds.



    My experience and this is my own bias, but from what i seen useally the bully i experienced, was the pack mentality, sometimes having that notion that EVERYBODY is in on it or against you always seem to me to be a more powerful motivator, one that maybe could be used for good, and maybe snuff out some of these altercations before they start or maybe manage a way to focus the aggression in less destructive ways.
    I think he misunderstood you why i asked for clarity. He assumed you meant a "group therapy/counseling" thing they do these days. Basically get everyone together to go all care bear and talk it over over some warm coco and carebear hugs.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Braggia View Post
    It's more than that - kids today are essentially being indoctrinated that fear takes precedence over everything else. They're surrounded by adults that are cowards and let irrational fears control their lives, and they're going to grow up the same way.
    This is exactly how all this sounds to someone not in the USA hearing about all this. It looks like USA is the land of the afraid not the land of the free. Stacking weapons, supporting drone strikes and torture based on speculation, self-censoring speech and in this case even imagination. Instead of beeing open and interested about other cultures there is always the fear of other ideas. Everything that is not US culture or does not follow US culture is suspicious or dangerous.

    It looks like a big part of USA thinks the best way to live is armed to the teeth in a prison they build for themself. That's paranoia.




  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    And if the bully becomes physical and someone else does then BOTH are in trouble provided the bully can;t spin it right which the often can.

    I like to paraphrase a famous line for this sorta thing.

    "When good men are ALLOWED to do nothing evil flourishes"

    more extreme than is required using the term evil but it still applies. Essentially i feel we have moved froma period where good men might choose not to act to instead not even being ALLOWED to anymore.

    Thus creating an apathetic society. Also probably one reason the idea of standing up for/protecting others has become negative as well as increased passivity and various other issues.

    In essence we are creating a large number of social problems by trying to solve things that have gone on for millenia.


    I think you summed up a lot of this very well in tha sentiment. I think the notion kids get that nobody gives a real shit is kind of strong now days. Back when I was growing up, I know it i, I mean you had people, but outside of lip service i never got the impression they really cares or were able to.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 10:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Teeruk View Post
    Little kids take guns to school because of irresponsible parents. No other reason.

    That is true, but the other problem is WHY is this kid parent or not bringing a gun to school to solve their problem.
    If at first choice is given, and then it was taken away, then it was never really a choice to begin with, similarly the same can be said true for any kind of rights or freedoms, these can never be privileges bestowed upon the few and denied to the many for it is a practice of tyranny. Never trust any man who feels you should beg nor ask to be treated fairly or to be respected.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    This is exactly how all this sounds to someone not in the USA hearing about all this. It looks like USA is the land of the afraid not the land of the free. Stacking weapons, supporting drone strikes and torture based on speculation, self-censoring speech and in this case even imagination. Instead of beeing open and interested about other cultures there is always the fear of other ideas. Everything that is not US culture or does not follow US culture is suspicious or dangerous.

    It looks like a big part of USA thinks the best way to live is armed to the teeth in a prison they build for themself. That's paranoia.
    It really is...Then men who WANT to act can get scared not to....such as myself and yes i am a coward...But i am hoenstly mroe scared of our government than almost anything.


    I was once talking to an abuse victim(trapped in sucha relationship_) and i would've given almost nothing more then to be able to go all 1930s on his ass and beat the shit outta him for harming another person like that..Old fashioned and barbaric perhaps but this guy was messed up picked her up and started abusing her at 15 when she ran away guys like that make me sick.

    So yeah then our government is basically inciting fear instead of hope as we once did..I think it started during the cold war.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 10:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I think you summed up a lot of this very well in tha sentiment. I think the notion kids get that nobody gives a real shit is kind of strong now days. Back when I was growing up, I know it i, I mean you had people, but outside of lip service i never got the impression they really cares or were able to.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 10:29 AM ----------




    That is true, but the other problem is WHY is this kid parent or not bringing a gun to school to solve their problem.
    I had a VERY strong sense of right and wrong so bad i would get a fight style reaction even from other being hurt..I also misread situation(i fully admit that) and yeah was a real fighter... But anyways yeah i got into ALOT of trouble..Irony is i now have trigger words such as Now thatls a cop out" or "You can always control your actions"...Yeah sure blacking out isn't real.

    Anyways these days i'm good know what to watch for and how to stay in control should anything happen but still scared. Though the REAL point is that we've destroyed Independence through our pursuit of the supposed utopia of safety.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post
    Oh my parents talked to me when i started watching the ANIMATED Robocop and i wasn't allowed to watch batman as a kid(my dad had issues with him and assumed it was based on the super violent 80s comics) so yeah there is that. But still these reactions are just over the top.

    Ok, what if the kid pretended to pull a grenade, and tossed it and pretended to kill everybody, but yelled a bigoted remark, not knowing any better either way, would you still feel the same?


    This is a totally hypothetical, but if I was a principle, if I had to put it down, I would for sure hide that fact, I wouldn't want this kid pegged as some sort of racist the rest of his life, or parents to recieve death threats, maybe just chaulk it up to this.



    Again, Maybe there is more to it, what actually happened was bad enough to suspend him, but not enough to want this kid or his parents to be tagged with a label they can never shake.
    If at first choice is given, and then it was taken away, then it was never really a choice to begin with, similarly the same can be said true for any kind of rights or freedoms, these can never be privileges bestowed upon the few and denied to the many for it is a practice of tyranny. Never trust any man who feels you should beg nor ask to be treated fairly or to be respected.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorrior View Post

    Damn man that's nuts. Bet you guys were some tough little buggers by the end.
    Not really, obviously once somebody fell down or so we werent going like "now I can kick the face too!". We also didn't really try to tackle, mostly we wanted to kick the shins.
    After a while you just learned to keep your legs closed while playing soccer or just take the pain and ram through to the safe zone. And of course a few would kick back the kickers so basically they would have free reign haha.

    Anyways, I am 30 but even I start to sound like a grumpy old man already. I walked alone to school when I was 8 or so and after school I would just go hang out at the park with the rest of the kids or just go home with a friend. My mom wouldn't even know where I was. I would just come home when it was 6 oclock. None of those play dates etc.

    I also remember the first time I heard somebody got grounded (he shoplifted some candy or so). I was probably 12 or 13 already. I couldn't really understand how it was punishment because there was no jailcell to keep you in. How can they stop you from walking out the door? I still got the old fashioned punishment and for shoplifting I knew I would get beat the crap out of me. I specificall remember the concept of "grounding" was really foreign to me. I would get the crap beaten out if I teased some kid in school or so and this kid shoplifted and had to play video games at home for a week.


    Anyways, I don't know what the hell happened in 20 years time but even though half the kids seem to do well with this new kind of teaching, the other knows how to play the rules to their advantage and is bossing over their classmates, teachers and even their parents. But they will just get their ritalin eventually.
    Last edited by Bolson13; 2013-02-08 at 10:40 AM.

  18. #138
    In America today, every 25 fucking seconds someone is viciously raped,
    someone is brutally violated; 250 times a day someone is murdered,
    someone's life is taken,
    In America;
    This is America,
    This is America,
    and I love America,
    I love America!

    I visit it every year as an anthropological zoo :-)

    Boys playing soldier or cowboy and indian or cops and robbers... Hell, even girls played along. What the fuck is wrong when kids can't even do that, but at 18 they can go out and buy an assault rifle for the hell of it. Then they can "play" for real
    -=Z=- Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek! -=Z=-

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Ok, what if the kid pretended to pull a grenade, and tossed it and pretended to kill everybody, but yelled a bigoted remark, not knowing any better either way, would you still feel the same?


    This is a totally hypothetical, but if I was a principle, if I had to put it down, I would for sure hide that fact, I wouldn't want this kid pegged as some sort of racist the rest of his life, or parents to recieve death threats, maybe just chaulk it up to this.



    Again, Maybe there is more to it, what actually happened was bad enough to suspend him, but not enough to want this kid or his parents to be tagged with a label they can never shake.
    I might ask if he knew what he said or where he learned the word..But calling too much attention to it would likely backfire and may even result in the kid actually becoming something of a bigot. I've found we call attention to things in such big ways that we then make a bigger problem than it could/should be. Thus why i say have to be careful..If anything talk to and ask his/her parents to figure it out...Those these days he probably heard it on Xbox Live and so i'd just tell him that's a very very bad word and he shouldn't use it if really young and if older explain that using it in the wrong place could get him killed(assuming something like the N word).

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Braggia View Post
    So a 2nd grader was suspended for pretending to throw an imaginary grenade... really? :

    http://www.stopidiocy.com/2013/02/im...al-suspension/

    The kid didn't throw anything. He was playing an imaginary game in his head that happened to involve throwing a grenade.

    The article lists a bunch of other schools where kids where suspended for playing with pretend guns or talking about them in the last few weeks. I realize that people are on edge after the recent school shootings but isn't this a bit ridiculous??
    Enjoy your free money from lawsuit. When I was growing up we played "War" all the time. We all had fake plastic guns and dressed up in full Camo and played in the woods in our neighborhood. Sometimes we would have 20-25 kids playing. Now everyone just plays video games. Does society today just want us all to be pussies?
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2013-02-08 at 10:42 AM.

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