Fury Warrior help (H raiding)

[zaneosak]

Hi warrior experts.

I am posting on behalf of one of my raiders and I guess myself as a raid leader.
Our fury warrior has been working on her dps for awhile now and it just isn't where it should be, not even close to be frank. I think she is gemmed/enchanted/reforged correctly so that isnt the issue. It has to be a matter of rotation and execution.

I have a sampling of our Elegon Heroic kill last night where she is dead last behind all our casters and just thought maybe someone could shine some light on how to improve before 5.2. We have been trying to get her some 1handers as we have heard it is much better than Titans Grip at the moment, we just have had no luck on drops. If anybody notices anything obvious that could help I would greatly appreciate it. (or any tips at all)

Elegon Heroic: (you can navigate thru our WoL for other bosses)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0lxf2...=10479&e=10962
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ikkin/advanced

[Deleted]

Well for starters, she should glyph raging wind and be using WW as a filler over WS. This also make it more convenient for AoE situations for example you can stack meat cleaver 3 times during the orb phase and let loose a raging blow hitting 4 targets when the orbs spawn. Secondly, Fury is all about small bursts of damage, you're colossus smash window is the most key part of doing good damage and you should always try and get 3 RBs in to that window as such always go CS > RB> BT > RB > RB. Lastly execute is obviously a large part of our damage, especially on a fight like elegon so make sure you have all your cooldowns ready, and try delay tilll you have trinket procs, pop bloodbath, hit CS pop all CDs then spam execute, make sure you are in zerker stance for the last phase.

[Nisho]

She should not be using the reck glyph its a dps loss go for death from above one, also not really any use for enraged regen talent, she's better for whit impending victory which can be used as a filler.

On a side note her profession is shit for Fury

[Deleted]

Your warrior isn't lining up cooldowns for execute phase. Only thing that is really wrong in that Elegon. Tell him/her to get 100 rage ready for execute phase and have all cooldowns ready, then go execute stance and spam that execute, the only stop in executing should be to use bloodthirst/berserker rage to refresh enrage.

worldoflogs.co m/reports/rt-y43t86m73pvw90ht/ sum/damageDone/?s=4728&e=5102
What her execute damage should look like for that boss.

Also, the death from above glyph should be used over recklesness.

---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 11:43 PM ----------

She should not be using the reck glyph its a dps loss go for death from above one, also not really any use for enraged regen talent, she's better for whit impending victory which can be used as a filler.

On a side note her profession is shit for Fury

Mining is bad yes, but skinning is 2nd best there is for fury so it's not all bad.

[Deleted]

She isn't lining her cooldowns up for execute phase. She's doing far too little damage in that part of the fight. Might not be going zerk stance for extra rage either for that particular fight. Otherwise fury warriors aren't super great at the moment, except during the execute phase, and if you botch that part then your dps will suffer badly.

[zaneosak]

Elegon may of been a bad example. She is consistently low on every boss, not just Elegon. Maybe the issues are all the same on every boss though.

[Darkfriend]

She isn't lining her cooldowns up for execute phase. She's doing far too little damage in that part of the fight. Might not be going zerk stance for extra rage either for that particular fight. Otherwise fury warriors aren't super great at the moment, except during the execute phase, and if you botch that part then your dps will suffer badly.

That's a load of bullcrap. Fury warriors are one of the strongest, if not the strongest melee DPS class ATM.

This is a response I made to someone on the "help my DPS" thread, and much of it probably applies here too.

Just going to list everything I notice even if you mentioned it. If nothing else, it can be used as a basic checklist to make sure none of the more basic errors are being made. I'll take a look though and see if anything especially sticks out. Again, I willing to chat with people over skype/mumble and help out as best I can, if people want. Just send me a PM.

1.) Fix enchants and reforges.

2.) Fix glyphs. Should be using unending rage, CS (if no one to apply 12% armor reduc) and heroic leap. If you don't need the CS glyph you can either use the glyph of RB for AoE fights or any other one you want (I'd advise 20% movement speed if none of the others are needed).

3.) Get a better set of trinkets, Darkmist vortex is pretty bad.

4.) You are using HS way too much, and WS not enough. Use WS to dump rage, not HS. If you are pooling RB's correctly for a CS, you will have plenty of free GCD's to use those bloodsurge procs, or be able to use WS instead of HS.

Ultimately, I think you are mismanaging your RB/CS/HS period. You should have 2 RBs saved going into a CS phase, and at least 100 rage. CS->RB->BT->RB->RB dumping as many HS as you can in that period (normally 2-4, depending on enrage procs/flurry/deadly calm etc). When you're ready to use BB make sure you're ready to pop CS/RB right after, so it'd be BB->DR->CS->RB->BT->RB->RB.

Also, I see no heroic leaps (Which should be used during a CS, especially with all CDs up) and no heroic throws (which should be used during otherwise dead GCDs).

Lastly, it's not a very good idea to start off with a BT before you pop CDs. If it procs enrage, go into your burst rotation (BB/SB/str trinket DR than reck after DR) if not wait 1 for 1 more BT. This way, you'll have extra rage, at least 1 extra RB proc, and still be under prepot for your burst.

Execute phase is about balancing rage with enrage/cs. You want to be saving enough rage to have 4x executes in a CS, but also be enraged at the same time. You dump rage on executes, but still hit BT on CD (except during that CS phase). This gains rage, and procs enrage (remember, you do anywhere from 10-25% more damage during enrage, based on mastery).

Lastly, remember that even DR is impacted by being enraged, so try not to use it when you aren't enraged.

[Deleted]

That's a load of bullcrap. Fury warriors are one of the strongest, if not the strongest melee DPS class ATM.

Not really, if the other melee dps are doing their job they will be ahead of you up until the execute phase, and you will catch up and sometimes bypass them during execute.

[Darkfriend]

Not really, if the other melee dps are doing their job they will be ahead of you up until the execute phase, and you will catch up and sometimes bypass them during execute.

Except, not only are you wrong, but you didn't even say that. You said "Otherwise fury warriors aren't super great at the moment, except during the execute phase" First off, anyone who doesn't include the execute phase is an idiot when analyzing a class, but a warrior is incredibly strong outside of execute range too. If execute were more than say 30% of a warriors damage in a fight, I might agree. But it's not. Its around 12%, more/less depending on length and other factors, for a phase where you have all cooldowns, a potion, and full rage going into it. Is a warrior strong in execute? DUH. But you're saying he's weak outside of it, which is not only wrong but stupidly so.

[Delath]

Damage on elegon also largely depends on your role. I'm for example usually put on chasing down protectors, which makes my total dps a lot lower compared to the scenario where I would be nuking boss full time. Also chilling with dps at certain times to avoid having a protector spawn just as it phases decreases your dps significantly, so external stuff can be a big factor. Regularly getting killed by the sparks that agro you when nuking them down before last burn phase doesn't help either (this is me, not the OP)

[Darkfriend]

Damage on elegon also largely depends on your role. I'm for example usually put on chasing down protectors, which makes my total dps a lot lower compared to the scenario where I would be nuking boss full time. Also chilling with dps at certain times to avoid having a protector spawn just as it phases decreases your dps significantly, so external stuff can be a big factor. Regularly getting killed by the sparks that agro you when nuking them down before last burn phase doesn't help either (this is me, not the OP)

Die by the sword says hi.

[Delath]

Die by the sword says hi.

*Hides under desk and facepalms*. Yes obviously...

[Hakto]

That's a load of bullcrap. Fury warriors are one of the strongest, if not the strongest melee DPS class ATM.

This is a response I made to someone on the "help my DPS" thread, and much of it probably applies here too.

Just going to list everything I notice even if you mentioned it. If nothing else, it can be used as a basic checklist to make sure none of the more basic errors are being made. I'll take a look though and see if anything especially sticks out. Again, I willing to chat with people over skype/mumble and help out as best I can, if people want. Just send me a PM.

1.) Fix enchants and reforges.

2.) Fix glyphs. Should be using unending rage, CS (if no one to apply 12% armor reduc) and heroic leap. If you don't need the CS glyph you can either use the glyph of RB for AoE fights or any other one you want (I'd advise 20% movement speed if none of the others are needed).

4.) You are using HS way too much, and WS not enough. Use WS to dump rage, not HS. If you are pooling RB's correctly for a CS, you will have plenty of free GCD's to use those bloodsurge procs, or be able to use WS instead of HS.

Instead of saying 'fix enchants and reforges' what should she change? the only thing that stands out to me is dancing steel on weapons (should be windsong)

TG warriors should use the Raging Wind glyph and use Whirlwind over a non bloodsurged wild strike.

Also TG warriors should enchant windsong on weapons over dancing steel.

Also raid has 2 feral druids and a prot warrior - why would she need CS glyph?

If you are going to give advice please make it correct.

[Kalmah]

Why would TG warriors enchant windsong? First time I see someone suggesting that. I assume it's because crit is more valuable for TG, but I really doubt it's enough to be better than dancing steel.

Do you have some math to back that up?

[Darkfriend]

Instead of saying 'fix enchants and reforges' what should she change? the only thing that stands out to me is dancing steel on weapons (should be windsong)

TG warriors should use the Raging Wind glyph and use Whirlwind over a non bloodsurged wild strike.

Also TG warriors should enchant windsong on weapons over dancing steel.

Also raid has 2 feral druids and a prot warrior - why would she need CS glyph?

If you are going to give advice please make it correct.

At the time, he was both over hit cap and under expertise cap. I'm not going to go to wowreforge and type out every single reforge that should be done- it can be done by the warrior himself.

Also, lets not forget you picked only part of what I said to say "hur dur bad advice." To that I say, take your own advice. Read everything I said, don't pick and chose, take out of context, than criticize. Everything I said was correct.

Also, DS>windsong. No argument. Even on OH, DS is still a ~500 DPS gain over windsong. Mushin is flat out wrong.

[bigfoot1291]

Hi warrior experts.

I am posting on behalf of one of my raiders and I guess myself as a raid leader.
Our fury warrior has been working on her dps for awhile now and it just isn't where it should be, not even close to be frank. I think she is gemmed/enchanted/reforged correctly so that isnt the issue. It has to be a matter of rotation and execution.

I have a sampling of our Elegon Heroic kill last night where she is dead last behind all our casters and just thought maybe someone could shine some light on how to improve before 5.2. We have been trying to get her some 1handers as we have heard it is much better than Titans Grip at the moment, we just have had no luck on drops. If anybody notices anything obvious that could help I would greatly appreciate it. (or any tips at all)

Elegon Heroic: (you can navigate thru our WoL for other bosses)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0lxf2...=10479&e=10962
Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ikkin/advanced

I sent you a PM.

---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 05:44 PM ----------

I'm going to go ahead and post the PM I sent you here as well, just so others can see it.

So after investigation, it appears your warrior's main issue is their rotation. There are a couple other minor things (such as some people saying glyph of recklessness is a DPS decrease, which is just flat out wrong), but nothing that will be as big of an impact as the rotation. Gearing / reforging seems to be correct.

Let me elaborate. I looked at http://worldoflogs.com/reports/0vta1...?s=5047&e=5385, using Garalon since uptime on the boss should be ~99% and it appears your warrior did not die during the encounter.

Your garalon encounter lasted for 5:37. Fury's top priority is bloodthirst (besides colossus smash). It has a 4 second cooldown. Taking that in mind, your warrior used bloodthirst a total of 45 times. If you take the full duration of your fight, in seconds (337 seconds) and divide it by 4, you get 84.25 potential times bloodthirst could have been used during the fight, so your warrior's bloodthirst was on cooldown only about 53% of the time. Taking execute phase and human error/movement into consideration, this needs to be about 75% - 80%. (It's actually a little less on garalon since we can execute legs commonly)

Here's an example from a fairly recent kill my guild did. (heroic)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ym...?s=3911&e=4309

The fight lasted 698 seconds. I used bloodthirst 73 times, out of a potential 99.5 times, averaging out at around 73% cooldown time.

So in short, your warrior's TOP priority ability was off cooldown over the course of garalon's fight about 20% more than it should have been. I know this has probably been a good amount to read, so sorry for its lengthyness but I do hope it helps. I like to be elaborate and help avoid misinformation from randoms.

Let me know if you have any questions / comments or just want more assistance

[Deleted]

Except, not only are you wrong, but you didn't even say that. You said "Otherwise fury warriors aren't super great at the moment, except during the execute phase" First off, anyone who doesn't include the execute phase is an idiot when analyzing a class, but a warrior is incredibly strong outside of execute range too. If execute were more than say 30% of a warriors damage in a fight, I might agree. But it's not. Its around 12%, more/less depending on length and other factors, for a phase where you have all cooldowns, a potion, and full rage going into it. Is a warrior strong in execute? DUH. But you're saying he's weak outside of it, which is not only wrong but stupidly so.

Fury warriors aren't toptier dps at the moment. There's no point discussing it, just check the values off of raidbots. Unless you want to say that the average fury warrior sucks much more than the average player of oher classes. They're not by any means terrible, but they aren't the best and you probably shouldn't be expecting a fury warrior to top your meters unless your other dpsers are lacking in gear, skill or both.

[Kalmah]

such as some people saying glyph of recklessness is a DPS decrease, which is just flat out wrong

When you state things like these that go against common knowledge, you should back it up with some sources or your own math.

Also, BT's cooldown is 4.5 seconds.

[Hakto]

Why would TG warriors enchant windsong? First time I see someone suggesting that. I assume it's because crit is more valuable for TG, but I really doubt it's enough to be better than dancing steel.

Do you have some math to back that up?

Landsoul did the math, for TG warriors crit rates higher than str by some distance - granted the difference is small but it is better: this will be even greater in 5.2 because of the haste changes for warriors.

[bigfoot1291]

Small overlook on the cooldown, wasn't online to double check. Although I guess that does throw the math off in my original post, I can re-look at that, but the point is still very valid.

The glyph I find to just be common sense. The main reason we want crit is for bloodthirst. An extra 30% chance to crit is more than enough for it to crit, since its chance is doubled, combined with its normal chance to crit, should have it over 100% chance. That's an extra 2 guaranteed crits for bloodthirst. Anything over that 30% is just overkill, and I find that the other abilities crit more often than not with only the 30% as well.