Fired LAPD cop interesting news

[Tziva]

Why are you giving the cops the benefit of doubt in this case? They have shot 3 random innocents so far.

Please, please, quote me anywhere where I defended or gave the benefit of the doubt to the police in this situation. Opposing people who are trying to justify a person committing abhorrent acts doesn't automatically mean I am siding with his opponents. I've been pretty clear in my language in my posts throughout this thread that I am not siding with the police. I am not siding with either party in fact.

That is the problem; people are trying to put everything into a neat little "good guys" vs "bad guys" package where if they don't trust the police then this guy is the anti-hero fighting the system. It's not an either/or situation. This guy can be crazy and evil, and the police force can be fucked up and corrupt. Both these statements can be true. There is no reason to polarise the situation by forgiving, excusing, justifying or giving the benefit of the doubt to one party just because you are against the other.

I've said several times that we shouldn't be assuming anything in anyone's favour. Our three primary sources of information are: A crazy murderer, a corrupt police force, and the media. One what grounds should we believe anything any of these sources say, give anyone the benefit of the doubt? We shouldn't.

[Sorrior]

It shouldn't. But it is human nature and history is filled with examples....

LOL replying with pretty much the same as me.

[BaP]

This is absolutely fascinating. This is one of those times where I can't help but support the murderer, just a bit. If this were a movie, he'd certainly be the protagonist. A desperate, frustrated man making one last stand against a corrupted system? The situation is impossibly deep in moral ambiguity.

And I'm sure that cops DAUGHTER and her fiancée deserved to die, heres a quote from MSN News a more unbiased source than lol " Davy D's Hip Hop Corner"

He began carrying out the plan last weekend, killing a man and his fiancée, whose father represented Dorner when he fought to keep his job.

Her father tried to help this guy and what does this person Christopher Dorner do, kill two people that had 0 to do with it!!!

[Sorrior]

I think you are comparing two different scale of events here. There will not be any dedicated coverage. There will be breaking news reports every time he does something though.

Sadly you are correct..But often the greatest moments of change are not recognized in their time.

[Lockon Stratos]

A guy goes and kills corrupt cops and their relatives - he is a psycho murderer

Obama drone strikes a daycare center with no militants inside to protect our freedoms - gets a Nobel Peace Prize

[Sorrior]

as a group we amplify, both for goog or ill.
people as a group can band together and survive, as long as the spark is there to do that.
however more often its hatred, indifferance, ignorance, and fear that spreads the fastest.

Exactly...This mans actions may very well through their vileness spark a movement to correct the vileness in our societies powerful.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:06 AM ----------

Please, please, quote me anywhere where I defended or gave the benefit of the doubt to the police in this situation. Opposing people who are trying to justify a person committing abhorrent acts doesn't automatically mean I am siding with his opponents. I've been pretty clear in my language in my posts throughout this thread that I am not siding with the police. I am not siding with either party in fact.

That is the problem; people are trying to put everything into a neat little "good guys" vs "bad guys" package where if they don't trust the police then this guy is the anti-hero fighting the system. It's not an either/or situation. This guy can be crazy and evil, and the police force can be fucked up and corrupt. Both these statements can be true. There is no reason to polarise the situation by forgiving, excusing, justifying or giving the benefit of the doubt to one party just because you are against the other.

I've said several times that we shouldn't be assuming anything in anyone's favour. Our three primary sources of information are: A crazy murderer, a corrupt police force, and the media. One what grounds should we believe anything any of these sources say, give anyone the benefit of the doubt? We shouldn't.

No he is a madman...but on occasion we as a species need such things.

[nalle]

I'm sorry but when you kill innocent people JUST because they happen to be a corrupt cops family you're one of the worst.


*I hate that owner of that restaurant because he kicked me out that night. I'm gonna go kill his family that has nothing to do with it. That'll teach him!*


Just no...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm sure those that died would like to have a word with this crazy fighting the system people here.

[Sorrior]

A guy goes and kills corrupt cops and their relatives - he is a psycho murderer

Obama drone strikes a daycare center with no militants inside to protect our freedoms - gets a Nobel Peace Prize

EXACTLY. The system is good the madman doing what he feels MUST be done is bad..Not right.

Also you're name is PERFECT for this discussion.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:09 AM ----------

I'm sorry but when you kill innocent people JUST because they happen to be a corrupt cops family you're one of the worst.


*I hate that owner of that restaurant because he kicked me out that night. I'm gonna go kill his family that has nothing to do with it. That'll teach him!*


Just no...

AGAIN i have NOT seen ANYONE defending that choice he made. WE ARE however saying that things like this can cause great change and not always for the worse.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:10 AM ----------

I'm sure those that died would like to have a word with this crazy fighting the system people here.

They died yes and we are not saying he should be killing innocents..But the world isn't so simple.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They died yes and we are not saying he should be killing innocents..But the world isn't so simple.

I wasn't saying it is but you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. STOP IT. People's families are suffering because of this man.

[Hughes]

I wasn't saying it is but you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. STOP IT. People's families are suffering because of this man.

And you keep repeating yourself giving your opinion and your view of how people are expressing their views on the subject. The most that they have said was that 'LAPD is corrupt,' noone here is condoning his actions. So, hey, you, STOP IT.

EDIT:

Furthermore, they are talking about the change that can be brought about by this incident, not 'giving him the benefit of the doubt.'

[lavafoxx]

I wasn't saying it is but you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. STOP IT. People's families are suffering because of this man.

And how many people's families are suffering BECAUSE of the LAPD's actions? i'd wager many, many times more.

[Sorrior]

I wasn't saying it is but you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. STOP IT. People's families are suffering because of this man.

Yes and peoples families have suffered due to the LAPD. THEY do not always if even often get sympathy or support. I am trying to see many facets of this and as i see it this man IS nuts and HAS committed many evil deeds but so has the LAPD. He is trying to fight crazy with crazy and the evil of the LAPD with evil of his own. Darkness is his sword evil his weapon. He is using these things on purpose and he knows full well what he is doing..As i type this they are citing his saying that he IS indeed COMMITTING evil acts. He's not denying that. But he also feels it is his only recourse.

[Vyxn]

Where? Show me in that manifesto above.

what was quoted wasn't the full manifesto it is just the liberal media edited version to keep them selves out of the story hoping no one would link them to this mad man like they tried to link Palin to Tucson Killings or Limbaugh to the Oklahoma bombing or the Tea Party to the Colorado theater shooting

here is some the quotes from the manifesto that the liberal media conveniently editted out

Pro Gun Control:


Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!!
Mia Farrow said it best. “Gun control is no longer debatable, it’s not a conversation, its a moral mandate.”
Sen. Feinstein, you are doing the right thing in leading the re-institution of a national AWB. Never again should any public official state that their prayers and thoughts are with the family.

Loves Obama:




You disrespect the office of the POTUS/Presidency and Commander in Chief. You call him Kenyan, mongroid, halfrican, muslim, and FBHO when in essence you are to address him as simply, President. The same as you did to President George W. Bush and all those in the highest ranking position of our land before him. Just as I always have. You question his birth certificate, his educational and professional accomplishments, and his judeo-christian beliefs. You make disparaging remarks about his dead parents. You never questioned the fact that his former opponent, the honorable Senator John McCain, was not born in the CONUS or that Bush had a C average in his undergrad. Electoral Candidates children (Romney# state they want to punch the president in the face during debates with no formal repercussions. No one even questioned the fact that the son just made a criminal threat toward the President. You call his wife a Wookie. Off the record, I love your new bangs, Mrs. Obama.

Fan of Joe Biden:


Mr. Vice President, do your due diligence when formulating a concise and permanent national AWB plan. Future generations of Americans depend on your plan and advisement to the president. I’ve always been a fan of yours and consider you one of the few genuine and charismatic politicians.

For Hillary 2016:


Hillary Clinton. You’ll make one hell of a president in 2016. Much like your husband, Bill, you will be one of the greatest. Look at Castro in San Antonio as a running mate or possible secretary of state. He’s #good people# and I have faith and confidence in him. Look after Bill. He was always my favorite President.

Anti-NRA


Wayne LaPierre, President of the NRA, you’re a vile and inhumane piece of shit. You never even showed 30 seconds of empathy for the children, teachers, and families of Sandy Hook.

MSNBC, CNN FAN:


Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Pat Harvey, Brian Williams, Soledad Obrien, Wolf Blitzer, Meredith Viera, Tavis Smiley, and Anderson Cooper, keep up the great work and follow Cronkite’s lead. I hold many of you in the same regard as Tom Brokaw and the late Peter Jennings. Cooper, stop nagging and berating your guest, they’re your #guest). Mr. Scarborough, we met at McGuire’s pub in P-cola in 2002 when I was stationed there. It was an honor conversing with you about politics, family, and life.
Willie Geist, you’re a talented and charismatic journalist. Stop with all the talk show shenanigans and get back to your core of reporting.

Loves Piers Morgan:


…give Piers Morgan an indefinite resident alien and Visa card. Mr. Morgan, the problem that many American gun owners have with you and your continuous discussion of gun control is that you are not an American citizen and have an accent that is distinct and clarifies that you are a foreigner. I want you to know that I agree with you 100% on enacting stricter firearm laws

Radicalized by Trayvon Martin Propaganda:


Too bad Trayvon didn’t smash your skull completely open, Zim.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Many speculate why people are driven to do such things as this. Video games, the media, bad childhood, whatever other reason of the day someone came up with, etc. I’m going to add another to the list that just came to mind after reading this thread. What better way to encourage someone to go kill random people to get his message out, than to tell him that is the best, if not the only, way to get his message out.

I see posts about how this will change American, how it will make society better as a whole, how the police were so corrupt he had no other way to get his message out. What message does that send? Yes, you cover yourselves and say that you disagree with him targeting families, but in the same paragraph talk about the good that will result from his murderous actions. I can think of nothing more that would encourage someone to commit acts like this than that. If a person sees such vile actions as a means to serve the greater good as is being repeated so often in this thread, and sees that others are unwell to commit those actions while he sees himself to be in a position to commit them, then it is only a very small step in the wrong direction to conclude that he must be strong for the sake of others and commit those acts for the good of society because others will not. He makes himself into a hero in his mind, a hero doing horrible deeds to achieve some societal reform that will benefit generations to come. By praising the reforms or changes that might result from his actions, you encourage others to build themselves up as the hero that would commit similar actions on the behalf of society.

The message that “the system” is so messed up, that the only way one can change it is to go out and murder innocent people and doing so would serve society well overall is dangerous. If a person truly comes to believe that domestic terrorism is the only path toward positive change, then we will see more domestic terrorism. No matter how much you accompany that message with the disclaimer that you would rather it not be innocent people killed and only people within “the system”, you legitimize those who would kill the innocent.

Why does anyone fly jet liners into buildings? Why does anyone shoot dozens of random children? Why does anyone kill the families of policeman? Because he is insane (which this man clearly is not), or because he thinks himself doing it for the greater good. Do not build up the antihero or even discuss the possible overall goodness of the results of his actions. To do so is to endorse the actions that you say you would never support and to encourage more of the same.

This man is evil and what he does results only in death. Hunt him down and end him; let that be all that is spoken of him.

[Sorrior]

Vyxn can you please link your FULL sources.

---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 12:25 AM ----------

Many speculate why people are driven to do such things as this. Video games, the media, bad childhood, whatever other reason of the day someone came up with, etc. I’m going to add another to the list that just came to mind after reading this thread. What better way to encourage someone to go kill random people to get his message out, than to tell him that is the best, if not the only, way to get his message out.

I see posts about how this will change American, how it will make society better as a whole, how the police were so corrupt he had no other way to get his message out. What message does that send? Yes, you cover yourselves and say that you disagree with him targeting families, but in the same paragraph talk about the good that will result from his murderous actions. I can think of nothing more that would encourage someone to commit acts like this than that. If a person sees such vile actions as a means to serve the greater good as is being repeated so often in this thread, and sees that others are unwell to commit those actions while he sees himself to be in a position to commit them, then it is only a very small step in the wrong direction to conclude that he must be strong for the sake of others and commit those acts for the good of society because others will not. He makes himself into a hero in his mind, a hero doing horrible deeds to achieve some societal reform that will benefit generations to come. By praising the reforms or changes that might result from his actions, you encourage others to build themselves up as the hero that would commit similar actions on the behalf of society.

The message that “the system” is so messed up, that the only way one can change it is to go out and murder innocent people and doing so would serve society well overall is dangerous. If a person truly comes to believe that domestic terrorism is the only path toward positive change, then we will see more domestic terrorism. No matter how much you accompany that message with the disclaimer that you would rather it not be innocent people killed and only people within “the system”, you legitimize those who would kill the innocent.

Why does anyone fly jet liners into buildings? Why does anyone shoot dozens of random children? Why does anyone kill the families of policeman? Because he is insane (which this man clearly is not), or because thinks himself doing it for the greater good. Do not build up the antihero or even discuss the possible overall goodness of the results of his actions. To do so is to endorse the actions that you say you would never support and to encourage more of the same.

This man is evil and what he does results only in death. Hunt him down and end him; let that be all that is spoken of him.

And let the system CONTINUE to go corrupt and controlling..This is NOT the US it once was. We are not a country of even half the freedoms we once had. We are no longer a society that exists as we once did...Corruption has been spreading for a very long time. And it is getting worse..If our country still followed the path of truth freedom and liberty for all then YES i would be calling him evil and saying put him down. But we aren't not anymore.

Thus yes i can see this sort of thing being for the greater good....HOWEVER I DO NOT condone the killing of innocents.

[Tziva]

Furthermore, they are talking about the change that can be brought about by this incident, not 'giving him the benefit of the doubt.'

While no one has condoned his actions, there have been numerous posts in this thread hedging at justification by painting him as a wronged man fighting the system. There have also been numerous assuming his complaints against the LAPD are true, while assuming the LAPD's accusations against him are false (while assuming corruption within law enforcement is perfectly reasonable, we're still assuming the crazy person is an honest party in this). There have been several posts implying the victims contributed to or earned their demise (by being corrupt or "talking trash"). None of those go as far as to say this guy is righteous in his murdering, thankfully, but many of them are giving him the benefit of the doubt as far as the truth in his claims and the motivations behind his actions.

For all we know, everything this guy has said is patently false. We're giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming otherwise. I'm not sure it is wise to trust the statements of a person who is very probably mentally ill.

(and again, since people like to compartmentalise things: saying his particular claims are false are not the same as saying the police force isn't corrupt. He can be lying or imagining offenses, and the LAPD can be corrupt. Both these things can be true)

Not everyone has done it, but enough posts in this thread have to merit a comment on it.

[-aiko-]

Yes and peoples families have suffered due to the LAPD. THEY do not always if even often get sympathy or support. I am trying to see many facets of this and as i see it this man IS nuts and HAS committed many evil deeds but so has the LAPD. He is trying to fight crazy with crazy and the evil of the LAPD with evil of his own. Darkness is his sword evil his weapon. He is using these things on purpose and he knows full well what he is doing..As i type this they are citing his saying that he IS indeed COMMITTING evil acts. He's not denying that. But he also feels it is his only recourse.

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.
This man needs to be stopped ASAP. I'm all for stopping corruption in the LAPD, but this is NOT the way to go about it. This is going to do nothing but strip innocents of their lives.

[Sorrior]

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.
This man needs to be stopped ASAP. I'm all for stopping corruption in the LAPD, but this is NOT the way to go about it. This is going to do nothing but strip innocents of their lives.

No an eye for an eye for an eye ad infinitum will. An eye for an eye will give you two blind men and one VERY happy eyepatch salesmen.

[Gothicshark]

So you'd give up your own life or your own mothers life for this guy to get his agenda through?

I'm not at risk, so no. However I did serve this nation to support my belief in the constitution, I was injured and made disabled during my service. What did you do to prove you are willing to sacrifice for something you believe in?

---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 04:33 PM ----------

I don't honestly think it should have come to this..

I agree, I do not like his methods, but I agree with the cause. I'm 41 years old, I have lived in LA off and on my whole life. And as long as I can remember the LADP has been highly corrupt.