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  1. #1

    Meanwhile in South Korea...

    First of all, a little background:

    In South Korea, World of Warcraft's popularity has been certainly waning down. It is nowhere to be found in Top 10 game rankings in terms of usage in PC cafes, and it is a well-known fact that most of the servers are suffering from severe lack of populations. Other games such as League of Legends have been rapidly growing, and Mists of Pandaria expansion did not help much; if it did not hurt in fact.

    Some Korean WoW players have pointed out that one of the factors for such decrease in player number could be that Korean players are getting too competitive and hard-hearted. I am not 100% sure about this, but their servers seem to have different lockouts for 10 mans and 25 mans, and I think, at one point, their servers were resetting every 3-4 days, which give them more chances to raid. Such changes have forced many Korean players to be as hardcore as they can be, leaving no room to breathe and forgive others for their mistakes. Many new players, especially people who just started playing WoW (surprisingly), could not adapt to such situations because no one would help them understand the game better. And the whole community was getting more elitist in general, with most of the players playing from the original WoW, since WoW has been around almost 10 years. And the whole topic of 'bullying' and 'cyber-bullying' has been a major issue in a Korean society.

    Then THIS incident happened.

    The original post of this incident is from "Inven" community (in Korean language), which I cannot post a link to.

    There have been thousands of replies and reactions to this incident, and apparently there have been visible changes in servers, and the whole community have asked themselves: What happened to the good ol' WoW we enjoyed?

    Below is my translation of the whole incident and several posts related to it. Not perfectly literal translation though.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Thread: He needed attention and help... The story of Zul'jin server 'outcast' warrior.

    In the afternoon of February 3rd, a player who identified himself as a PUG raid leader/organizer of Zul'jin server posted a thread titled "Zul'jin server outcast", and it has been the hottest topic in the Korean WoW community.

    Below is the thread:

    ----------------------------------------------

    Sub-Thread: Zul'jin server outcast

    Hello, I am one of the many players who have been playing WoW for 8 years.
    I am writing this because I had quite an incident today.
    I'm not sure where to start... I will just state what comes to my mind. Please read.

    One fine Saturday afternoon, I was organizing a PUG raid.
    There was a whisper.
    "DPS Warrior, ilvl 496, I'd like to go!"
    Hmm... he was quite infamous in our server. DPS below tanks. "The Hole". He was well-known by raid leaders for his lack of skills which eventually break apart any raids.
    I told him that it was to be a 10-man raid, and gently said no.

    "Well... sir, you are not intentionally avoiding me, right...? I was really thankful when you brought me to ToES last time..."
    Yes... I brought him to ToES once, without knowing about him, and he did 30k DPS to the last boss. I could never forget him.
    But, seeing him saying he was thankful, I suddenly felt bad and sorry.
    I was like... fuck... Was I one of the snobs who would calculate and bring only maniacs to make an easy raid...? I felt really bad, so I gave him a reply.

    I was not able to gather up a full raid anyways that day, so I was able to talk to him for a long time.
    He was saying: "I really want to do better DPS, but I don't know how to do that... Even if I join a raid, I don't qualify to get any gold (Translator: In all Korean servers, they pay gold to loot items, and players who didn't get any loot divide up the gold in the end, if their DPS/HPS qualify), so I can't get much gold... which again affects my gear settings. I can't join any raid nowadays. No one would bring me. I whisper, no one answers... Please help... My current guild wouldn't even help me... Please."

    And I felt really really really bad. I inspected his gears. He was using Stam gems, wrong gems on red sockets, wrong enchants and everything... And the whole reforging was just totally wrong.
    After an hour of trying to organize a raid, I just called it, and I was on GameTalk (Korean Vent) with him to teach him gear settings, rotations, and basic DPS strategies.
    You know you don't even get "Yes" on the GameTalk nowadays?
    He was answering "Yes" to every sentence I was saying, like he was spamming. He was really learning.
    I wanted to bring him on to my guild, so I can keep him closely to help him as much as I can.
    Then I never expected my guildies would object.

    "Brother... Please don't ginvite him, please..."
    "Oh, if he's coming, I'm out of this guild. Sorry."
    He was that infamous, sucked too bad in many dungeons and raids. So everyone in the server knew him, and hated him.
    And I didn't know my guildies were on the same boat.
    Still, I asked him to join my guild, and he was like, "Is that really OK??" "Thank you so much... I will speak to my current GM first and go over there."
    He was saying "thank you" multiple times, and gquitted. Then, because of my guildies' objections, I ended up not being able to ginvite him.
    I didn't know what to say, and he first said: "Oh... There are people there who don't like me... That's OK! "
    And I realized that he knows he was hated by many. I really didn't want him to know, but he already knew. I was even more sorry.

    All I could do was just letting him know more about the game, and encouraging him to change his character name.
    I don't think I helped him a lot, but he said thank you so many times, and I still feel really bad.

    All my fellow players, I had so much fun playing WoW.
    But one day, because of random LFG dungeons and LFR raids, we didn't have to hang out with people in the server any more. And the game got old. And people have been saying about WoW: "A game for only maniacs and hardcores. Noobs not allowed. Nothing humane about it."
    Yes... I did feel that.
    If you went to army, you'd know that there are all kinds of people in this world.
    This guy was different too.
    It took him good 4 hours to understand a few things I taught him.
    He was not as fast as you are in this game. He was not as game-savvy as we are.
    I even got to know some stuff about his personal life and his family situation, and there were a lot of problems.
    He was old, and he was just trying to have fun playing WoW, because he was stressed from the real world out there.
    He was just trying to do his best, but he was hated by many fellow players in the server, without getting any help. And I felt really bad.

    If there is any warrior who can help him, please whisper me.
    And people, please do not hate and bully bad players too much... Some of them are not intentionally being bad.
    There are certain jackasses and losers who are intentionally being bad, but not everyone.
    There are some people who really need attention and help to be better, like this person.
    I will wait for your response.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    This thread has been the top thread for this week, and the actual 'outcast' warrior posted a thread himself, saying 'sorry' to his fellow players in Zul'jin server:

    ----------------------------------------------------

    Sub-Thread: I would like to apologize and ask for your forgiveness... I know it's late, but can you give me one more chance?

    Hello, I was reading the original thread and I thought I should post one myself to speak to all of you... I am that 'outcast warrior'.
    I know that I wasted much of your time in many raids and dungeons, because I was bad.
    In all the raids I joined, my DPS was below any tank, and I would really like to apologize to all players who had to suffer because of my poor play.
    Many people have been posting encouraging words to me, and I wanted to say something here too, so here I am.

    I am indeed a bad player, as you all know.
    Many people in my last guild explained how to DPS, great websites, forums, and guides, but I could not understand what they were saying. I was reading up all the posts in Inven community, but I could not get better. I didn't even know how to make macros.
    WoW is my first online game ever, and it was just so difficult for me to understand certain things.
    And the raid leader, who posted the original thread, taught me how to DPS, how to install add-ons like DBM, how to reforge, and how to set up gears.
    And it was totally my fault that I didn't get to learn those things all this time. And I deserve to be bullied.
    All my friends in Zul'jin server, I know you all hate me, but when I log on and see any of you, I really feel like all of you are my friends... In fact, I see you more often than my friends in real life... I know many of you hate me and blocked me, but please forgive me once.
    Again, this was my first online game... And I made your raids 'hell' because I didn't know anything about the encounters. I apologize for that.

    Can you please give me one more chance to play with you again? If I make same mistakes again and again, without fixing anything, then I will only do quests and LFRs.
    I know you don't even want to see my face, but I just like being in a community. I know you do not want to see me around, so I just hide myself around mountains or corners of big cities...
    And I feel so thankful to raid leaders and raiders who brought me onboard time to time... But then I was only a burden to them. I am truly sorry. Please do not hate me so much...

    I really want to play with you and have fun. I know this post is not enough to forgive me, but I really want to show you that I have changed and will keep changing.
    Happy New Year, and if you forgive me, I will be a better player I promise.
    And for the last time, thank you to all raid leaders who tried to work with me, and sorry...

    ----------------------------------------------------

    And even more players replied. Not just WoW players, but players from all different communities (Diablo, Starcraft, you name it) were checking the thread and posting encouraging words.

    Many people cried. Many people remembered what it was like to play as newbies. Many people questioned: "Why are we not having fun any more? What happened to our good ol' WoW? What happened to us?"

    People started talking about how much they sucked when they first played this game, and shared how brutal and non-forgiving they are to other players nowadays, leaving no room for mistakes or lack of skills.

    I almost cried reading all those posts and threads. I myself was a newbie once. Every person starts somewhere. I remember when I was tanking on my warrior with Hypnotic Blade (spell dagger). I remember my first raid and how bad I was. I remember how many people have helped me and encouraged me to play this game on the level I am in now.

    This whole incident has been a huge impact to the whole Korean WoW community that has been waning down, and I hope it makes a positive change that will last for a long time in many people's hearts.

    I remembered: This is why I play a MMORPG. This is why I play WoW. And I just wanted to share with you, so sorry for such long post.

    TLDR: South Korea and North Korea are different. And sorry for making this too long!

  2. #2
    All my feels

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Brilliant post
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  4. #4
    This is a good story, and I'm glad you took the time to write it up.

    I think most of us know a person that is a server outcast for whatever reason, and know elitist that have no regard for other player's feelings, so I think most of us can relate, even outside of Korea.

    I know of a person on my server that is probably just as bad as the person mentioned in this story, with INT plate shoulders and tanking stats on several pieces. I know for certain most of the people on the server have this person on ignore for various reasons, but I don't. I've /w them advice here and there in the past, and tried to educate them, but unfortunately they don't seem to be as ready to learn as the guy in this story. They seemed quite young in their repsponses though, so possibly it's a question of more time before they catch on. I know for a fact at least that I won't put them on ignore or treat them bad like others on the server do.
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  5. #5
    its fun to make fun of noobs but i feel bad for that guy

  6. #6
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    ... TBH that post really struck a chord. Hell, we were all noobs in Vanilla but nowadays I flip out when someone's not doing something "correctly". 5mans disband after a single wipe, people throw insults at eachother for what they feel is incorrect reforging/gemming, some of my guild mates openly insult/taunt people in PUGS for the hell of it.

    That post honestly makes me wonder if I really want to play this game any more... I already feel like a lot of people have stopped having fun and do it for the prestige rather than the enjoyment, I personally feel like WoW's a glorified spreadsheet nowadays rather than the old, "cobble your OXFAM gear together and go on an adventure" game that it used to be.

    Might be time for me to give it a break.
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  7. #7
    Wow. That's a really touching story.

    Things like this are why I don't kick people form groups just for being bad. People who are trolling or insulting others, yes. But poor performance alone I won't kick for.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk
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    Thanks for taking the time to translate, post and bring to our attention something of such magnitude

    Im sure we all feel sorry for the poor guy right :*(

    Its sad to say that Wow has been very 'leet' for a long time now, very unforgiving for newbies. People who gem badly, dont know boss strats, wear wrong gear wit the wrong stats r all lolled and pointed at and told how noob they are. Come on... do u really /w them and offer to give them some advice? No, u laugh behind their backs with your mates...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Wow. That's a really touching story.

    Things like this are why I don't kick people form groups just for being bad. People who are trolling or insulting others, yes. But poor performance alone I won't kick for.
    It's pretty obvious, the difference between being not skilled at the game, and trolling or being abusive.

    Back in the days of 4.2 and the Spring of Three Hour Random Troll Instances, I played with lots of people who weren't playing very skillfully. But I never voted to kick anyone for that reason. I did of course vote to kick people now and then, but for more compelling reasons like "crazy drunk racist maniac."

    Outside of hardcore raiding there is barely any part of this game where you can't make room for newbies, or people who are worth bringing along for personality (but not their leet WoW skills). Because it's a social game, or should be, I am always happy to bring people I enjoy being with along with me, and "carry" them if necessary.

  10. #10
    I have really mixed feelings on this.

    On one hand I do feel pity for the outsider. People not cutting him a break and failing time and time again and now got himself in such a hole that he can no longer dig himself out of.

    On the other hand he has all the tools he needs to improve and get better. He has websites available to tell him what stats to have and everything he needs to do step by step. Anyone who wants to get better can. Even a semi good rotation is going to net you decent DPS with the right gear.

    When I played vanilla yes I was a terrible player by today's standards and didn't even know better. Coming from the perspective of humility he should be able to improve and get better. I think part of my callousness is that humility is such a rare trait nowadays and especially in MMO's. Most people who you even attempt to help just tell you to F' off most of the time so I've become cynical about the whole thing and don't even bother anymore.

    The outsider in this post is someone whom I'd be happy to instruct due to his willingness.

    The people who hate him are very shallow people and people who weep are the people who have come to realize their own shallowness in this instance.

    So mixed feelings all around. In the end if I had seen that I would take it upon myself to teach the man how to fish.

  11. #11
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    Touching story, I really feel bad for the guy. I remember when I just started, granted I had friends to help me out but it took me a long time to learn still people were willing to help. Makes you think how much the people have changed.
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  12. #12
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Korea has a small community, so things like this are more common than when you're playing with a pool of 4 million.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral WarpKnight's Avatar
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    While I'd say it's probably not as hardcore on the Oceanic servers on which I play, the themes are similar.

    It was like this in Burning Crusade even, although not to the extent it is now. I wasn't a very good player back then, on my warrior. Lots of abuse, lol. Unfortunately nobody helped me out. But I googled the everliving hell out of the topic so by Naxxramas I was topping damage as Fury. Not saying the Outcast Warrior should simply have googled the subject, but the information IS out there for those willing to find it.

    I've been on the other end of the stick lately. I used to main a prot paladin in Cataclysm, and a noobie paladin tank from some no-name guild used to whisper me for help and advice. Fortunately for my sake I decided to help him out.. because fast forward to 5.1 and he's good enough that my guild recruited him and he is now my off tank. We're solid in-game friends now. He told me last night that he only started raiding in Dragon Soul.. I couldn't believe it because he's so knowledgeable now. He is eager to learn new things and watches livestreams like a hawk for any bit of useful advice or strategy info.
    Currently Playing: Blood Death Knight, Arcane Mage

  14. #14
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to translate, post and bring to our attention something of such magnitude

    Im sure we all feel sorry for the poor guy right :*(

    Its sad to say that Wow has been very 'leet' for a long time now, very unforgiving for newbies. People who gem badly, dont know boss strats, wear wrong gear wit the wrong stats r all lolled and pointed at and told how noob they are. Come on... do u really /w them and offer to give them some advice? No, u laugh behind their backs with your mates...
    I for one offer help or ask if they need any dvice. I also tell the guys mocking them to STFU and try and remind em where we all once were.

  15. #15
    The Patient Rupture91's Avatar
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    That's just horrible, I can't believe just because someone is extremely bad that they are an outcast on their server. But I can't lie, I've put some bad players on my shit list not because they fail but because they're extremely annoying aswell. This guy seems to be a nice fellow and I see no reason to make him an outcast, those people should feel horrible but I doubt they will since they're assholes in the first place for doing what they did.
    The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

  16. #16
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    This post makes me yearn for the days when I first set foot into Azeroth (tail end of vanilla) as a complete newbie, knowing nothing about the game, but being welcomed in by the realm I chose, where those that were playing were still new to the game themselves the jaded outlook towards the game and the players didn't exsist and people took the time to talk to one another and discuss the game not from the *being an awesome skilled player* aspect, but from a new player coming into a game that they loved and wanted that new player to love too. I was so lucky to meet people that were in the same boat as me, or that had the above reaction to new players (wanting them to have fun) These people became good friends and some as guildies.

    To this day I often help new players or players that are having troubles learning, but I can't say I am a saint, because I've also had thoughts towards certain types of players that I have felt aren't pulling their weight or are not playing well, I would never tell them that though, but I have thought it.

    I think it's a hard thing not to do when you've played for so long and learned so much about the game, and just take it for granted that this knowledge comes easy to someone that has played for so long. You do have certain expectations that others should know this too. When infact thats the problem, we forget we were in their shoes when we first played too.

    I love this post, because it shows me that there are still people out there that care about this community and the game, and want to make it a better place, for all those new players coming into the game. We have to give those players a chance just like those players gave us a chance when we first joined. I hope the guy gets a chance to show that he can be part of the community and bring something good to it.
    Last edited by The Glitch; 2013-02-08 at 07:41 AM.

  17. #17
    This is what's destroying WoW. There is no sense of wonder anymore because there's always someone who already knows just about everything. Sure I knew about thottbot, then WoWhead, wowwiki, wowdb, arenajunkies, elitist jerks...you name it. I also know that some people don't want to have to go to every 3rd party website just to learn how to play. I'd actually prefer not to.

    The unwillingness of WoW's community to help people is destroying the game. WoW isn't friendly anymore. I remember a time where I could just get a random whisper and within 20 minutes have a new friend. This just doesn't happen anymore - it's so infrequent. I play WoW with my guild and like 5 Real ID buddies....I rarely ever talk to, communicate, or acknowledge anyone for anything except selling something.

    It's no wonder that WoW loses subscribers because the new people don't stick around - WoW's environment is hostile and unfriendly...

  18. #18
    Pandaren Monk
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    Makes me long for the days when I would have more than just G chat open. Trade chat, LFR chat, LFD chat, BG chat. I don't ever look at any of those anymore, yet when I first started meeting new people and doing stuff with them was one of my favorite things about the game. When I first started in Vanilla if I was doing something wrong people would try to help me out, now though if you do something wrong people act like you just ran over their cat.

    Hell even if all you do is tell some one to go to EJ or tank spot or fat boss, that's better than just telling them they suck.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Revik View Post
    On the other hand he has all the tools he needs to improve and get better. He has websites available to tell him what stats to have and everything he needs to do step by step. Anyone who wants to get better can. Even a semi good rotation is going to net you decent DPS with the right gear.
    I don't really think it should be implicit that players should have to reach outside the game in order to be considered competent at it. While I don't RP, I do like the immersion in the game, and visiting web sites that tell me how to gem, how to reforge, which buttons to push, what addons to use, et cetera, is not what I enjoy about the game.

    If you are involved in bleeding edge progression then all of those things (the things I don't necessarily enjoy) are very important to you. But if you are just in the middle of the pack doing weekly raiding, or doing 5-mans, or whatever, that stuff is vastly less important. It would be nice if DPS weren't gemming stamina. But on the other hand you probably don't need gems at all. The game is not that tightly tuned. Not at all.

    What is important is that you work with a few mechanics. There might occasionally be some cleverness involved. But there is still room for one or two people to fumble.

    You have to decide: Are you playing the game in order to be #4 on your server instead of #5? Or are you playing it to enjoy yourself?

  20. #20
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psilar View Post
    This is what's destroying WoW. There is no sense of wonder anymore because there's always someone who already knows just about everything. Sure I knew about thottbot, then WoWhead, wowwiki, wowdb, arenajunkies, elitist jerks...you name it. I also know that some people don't want to have to go to every 3rd party website just to learn how to play. I'd actually prefer not to.

    The unwillingness of WoW's community to help people is destroying the game. WoW isn't friendly anymore. I remember a time where I could just get a random whisper and within 20 minutes have a new friend. This just doesn't happen anymore - it's so infrequent. I play WoW with my guild and like 5 Real ID buddies....I rarely ever talk to, communicate, or acknowledge anyone for anything except selling something.

    It's no wonder that WoW loses subscribers because the new people don't stick around - WoW's environment is hostile and unfriendly...
    I agree completely, honestly at 30 years old, I often feel like when I log into WoW, I am logging into a playground. It's gotten so bad, that I have to turn off general chat/trade chat and sometimes even party/whispers. It makes me very sad that I have to do this in order to have a pleasant gaming experience. Used tobe that General chat was full of people asking questions about quest objective locations, talent choices, roations, even just wheres a particular vendor that sells a particular item/recipes etc and folks would be answering with good solid answers that were helpful. Even just some new player being all excited about finally reaching Stormwind and being awed at the size! and sharing it in general chat.

    Now all I see are *cool story bro* *no ones cares* *NOOB* etc in response to anything that these people think everyone should know, or just trying to make someone elses gametime miserable.

    People tend to stick to their guilds these days, and hardly venture outside of them, and if you aren't lucky enought to have real life friends playing or a guild, then most are royally out of luck getting anywhere , because of all the negativity, and end up giving up and quitting. It's such a sad state for the game to be in

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