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  1. #1
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
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    [Fire] Fire better than frost in terms of dps?

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...letti/advanced Link to my armory

    Could Fire be more dps than frost for example. Vizier HC? Cause If I could do more dps with Fire than frost, I would gladly play it, and I heard rumours about fire being competitive after some Ilvl or crit change or something.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Arcane > Fire > Frost in terms of dps for single target stationary fights.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Arcane > Fire > Frost in terms of dps for single target stationary fights.
    Can you throw me any numbers? Could I go for fire and see "big" dps increase to frost?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Heviletti View Post
    Can you throw me any numbers? Could I go for fire and see "big" dps increase to frost?
    You would see a "very" big increase in dps by going arcane. Do you refuse to play arcane ?

    Anyway, you would certainly see a ~10ish% percent increase I think, a lot more on cleave fights. (those numbers aren't from any data, its what I think would happen from what I know of those specs, i'm arcane myself so the numbers could be off.)
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  5. #5
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    You would see a "very" big increase in dps by going arcane. Do you refuse to play arcane ?

    Anyway, you would certainly see a ~10ish% percent increase I think, a lot more on cleave fights. (those numbers aren't from any data, its what I think would happen from what I know of those specs, i'm arcane myself so the numbers could be off.)
    I know that arcane thingy, and I spend my last weekend learning arcane, cause I never played it (Been fire for 2 years, had to change spec after nerfs), I went frost, and i'm feeling bad cause doing so bad dps compared to our other mage who is playing arcane atm.

    I'm probably going for arcane on next progress boss, but the best situation would be if I would be able to play fire with some good numbers.

    EDIT: The reason i haven't played arcane so far, was cause i was able to do dps with fire too, and stay at the dps list, and I dont arcane tbh, but it seems like I have to play it to do some dps.
    Last edited by Heviletti; 2013-02-07 at 03:26 PM.

  6. #6
    Well you won't be able to compete with the other arcane mage on single target fights but you could be able to match them, sometimes be slightly ahead on heavy cleave fights.

    Arcane isnt hard to play, well, there's really not any "hard" spec atm but arcane is still pretty easy to play "well" once you know the correct rotation.

    I guess you could pull decent numbers seen your progress, you should play what you enjoy, if later you see thats its holding back your progression you could think about going arcane.

    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  7. #7
    Is fire really better than frost on single target right now? I've been out of the game for a month or so.

  8. #8
    I was in the same mindset when we were working on heroic vizir, i was fire at the time, and if i timed out my combustion to spread onto the echo my numbers were good. I then switched to arcane after getting comfortable with the rotation and oh my god, the dps difference on imperial is immense, I'm usually a solid 2mil ahead of everyone on the first platform.

  9. #9
    Frost is the worst of the 3 spec's when it comes to dps on any fight.

    the only time i would consider it, is if u need on on demand aoe burst at some or more point dyring the fight that is really inportet for the take down.(shield feng HC, but on that one it not enough to get the spec just for that)

    other reason in my opinion would be control, cc, kite and what not but again there aint really any fight where u need it so much that the other 2 specs cant do it
    Last edited by ismaldu; 2013-02-08 at 10:03 PM.

  10. #10
    Frost is honestly one of the top DPS specs in the game. People just don't like it because it's much harder to get your efforts worth than the others.

    It pulls ahead of almost all specs minus Arcane mages and Afflocks honestly.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    Frost is honestly one of the top DPS specs in the game. People just don't like it because it's much harder to get your efforts worth than the others.

    It pulls ahead of almost all specs minus Arcane mages and Afflocks honestly.
    You have any proof of this?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    You have any proof of this?
    Do the math?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    Frost is honestly one of the top DPS specs in the game. People just don't like it because it's much harder to get your efforts worth than the others.

    It pulls ahead of almost all specs minus Arcane mages and Afflocks honestly.
    If u trust simcraft yes thats what it says, but logs do not surport this at all.

    if frost was that good, why aint there any logs whit good frost dmg

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    Do the math?
    No proof, then.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ismaldu View Post
    If u trust simcraft yes thats what it says, but logs do not surport this at all.

    if frost was that good, why aint there any logs whit good frost dmg
    There are. They're just dominated by Arcane logs because that's the better spec.

    Why would you not play the best and easiest spec? It doesn't change the fact that Frost is still a very very strong spec in the grand scheme.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 07:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    No proof, then.
    Proof is all over the place. Do I need to quote you the internet? Do I need to come to your house and play your mage for you to show you how well Frost DPS does?

    Seriously, good god.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    There are. They're just dominated by Arcane logs because that's the better spec.

    Why would you not play the best and easiest spec? It doesn't change the fact that Frost is still a very very strong spec in the grand scheme.
    lets forget there is a arcane spec and only look at fire vs frost then and tell me where it outperform fire

  17. #17
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    There are. They're just dominated by Arcane logs because that's the better spec.

    Why would you not play the best and easiest spec? It doesn't change the fact that Frost is still a very very strong spec in the grand scheme.[COLOR="red"]
    The easiest spec is Fire by far. But it should never be the best on single target, since Arcane lacks in mobility and aoe.
    Having Fire do better on single target would make Arcane obsolete like it was in 5.0

  18. #18
    Ok, this is just my personal anecdotal evidence. I just went through the whole gambit over the last 4-6 weeks. I have been Arcane/Haste/RoP, Arcane/Haste/Invo, Arcane/Mastery/RoP, Frost, and this last week, Fire both 4 pc with combustion glyph, without combustion glyph and 2 pc with combustion glyph. Not all of my fire stuff is in the logs.

    Here is my Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raves/advanced

    Here is my guild's logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/4543/

    Just to start things off simply: Fire is just not reliable. Even at 32% crit, the lack of crit strings is just depressing. Its not even in the heating up, its in the pyro crits which you really need to support combustion. I did dogs in half ass arcane mastery forge and did 180k. So, sure, fire can cleave. I did Elegon though, and it was a struggle to get a decent combustion going when I needed it, and I even flubbed one of my sparks. I was a little out of practice, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth. Now, that said, I love fire, as a spec, and I hope to go back to it full time some day, but that day isn't today.

    Next, Arcane, in all its tedium, is just leaps and bounds beyond Fire. I dislike haste arcane's tedium of invocating so freaking often, or mastery arcane's managing the rune placement. I do well enough with it though. I can practically solo a whole side of sparks on Elegon, and it is just a beast on any fight that gives bonus damage from the mechanics, especially mastery forged with rune.

    Finally, I play around some here and there with Frost. I have done some pretty cool things with it tbh. It isn't as high as arcane, but I can push it further than fire.

    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/hellscream/raves/

    If you look through that, compare what you like, you can see some of the frost logs aren't that bad, especially considering the gear I was in at the time. I don't have too many recent ones though. Especially if you look less at what I actually did and more at the percentile lines, you can see that fire and frost aren't that far apart on a lot of fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-08 at 01:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    The easiest spec is Fire by far. But it should never be the best on single target, since Arcane lacks in mobility and aoe.
    Having Fire do better on single target would make Arcane obsolete like it was in 5.0
    Or, they could make the three spec each have competitive single and aoe dps. I mean, what a concept that would be.

  19. #19
    aye fire dmg aint that much higher on some fights, but still higher then frost and on other fights fire is much better.

    So right now 5.1
    if u wanna do the best dps u can, play arcane

    if u dont like arcane and refuse to play it, but still wanna do good dmg play fire

    if arcane and fire aint for u, well then then there aint really anything to discus, only how to get the most out of frost

    that is just my opionion

  20. #20
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malfecto View Post
    Or, they could make the three spec each have competitive single and aoe dps. I mean, what a concept that would be.
    People kept asking for perfect balance, but then GC openly stated that he doesn't want Arcane to have mobility, he then even went so far and removed Scorch from it entirely.

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