Why is what Jaina's done okay but Sylvanas not?

[Deleted]

You have a point. But then this could just derail into a tinfoil hat, conspiracy discussion about what could have happened behind the scenes. Its fact that Benedictus simply left the church without telling anyone what he was truely intended on doing. Maybe he preched to others before he left? I dont know, wed have to find out, but I guess Thalen did that.

Also, the fact that you completely warped my words around to try to show how something could theoretically have happened with zero proof of ever occuring, nulifies your arguement.

I paraphrased because the original statement was fairly convoluted. I still don't understand how demonstrable proof of Benedictus losing his shit leads anyone to believe this has never happened in any other cases as a direct logical progression. Seriously, that just makes no sense to me at all, it's literally backwards.

Whatever turns out to be the case, it's always going to be under the crushing weight of taking an existing lore which is very "light and golden things are good and evil things drip with black goo", which is essentially the original WC premise (think good and bad defined by a 6 year old), and trying to apply more progressed/deep plot elements to it. They're trying to do this recently and it's a really ugly mess.

[K i s u]

Jaina's actions are justified, but it doesn't mean it fits with what her character has been/done in the past we've always seen her as s gentle and forgiving type, one that will do her best for peace and now, it's all gone downhill it's just shocked the majority because it's new and unexpected. Sylvanas is well, Sylvanas. You know she has reason and you don't expect it to always be pretty.

[Kralljin]

Garrosh did. In ToW, the Kirin Tor sends token aid to Theramore, because they know if one faction was to simply destroy another, they would betray their neutrality by being passive. Garrosh is dangerous, they know it, and they sent aid to show him that his was can spiral out of control and neutral parties will have to intervene.

"token aid"?

Rhonin and his family is "token" aid?

Neutrality means in that case not to support any faction, or in a more cynical sense, supporting both factions.

If the Kirin Tor thinks that Garrosh is wrong and needs to stopped, fully support the Alliance and stop talking about neutrality.

[babo7000]

I paraphrased because the original statement was fairly convoluted. I still don't understand how demonstrable proof of Benedictus losing his shit leads anyone to believe this has never happened in any other cases as a direct logical progression. Seriously, that just makes no sense to me at all, it's literally backwards.

Whatever turns out to be the case, it's always going to be under the crushing weight of taking an existing lore which is very "light and golden things are good and evil things drip with black goo", which is essentially the original WC premise (think good and bad defined by a 6 year old), and trying to apply more progressed/deep plot elements to it. They're trying to do this recently and it's a really ugly mess.

Oh i hear ya.

If the Benedictus thing was handled in a better way than, 'Oh look guys hes the Twilight Father!', we wouldnt be wondering if anyone else sided with him or not.

Yea and about the token aid to Theramore, I honestly dont understand the reasoning as to how they can say Garrosh is bad yet not committ to one side temp, im just going by (poorly written) facts.b

[Trassk]

"token aid"?

Rhonin and his family is "token" aid?

Neutrality means in that case not to support any faction, or in a more cynical sense, supporting both factions.

If the Kirin Tor thinks that Garrosh is wrong and needs to stopped, fully support the Alliance and stop talking about neutrality.

well thats whats happening now.

Even in the end Rhonin was a freakin joke. He talked about being neutral but when push came to it, he tried to slip past his neutrality to side with the alliance against the horde in theramore, and so died for it.

[judgementofantonidas]

I keep hearing people call Jaina stupid evil or crazy and it kind of leaves me boggled.

I mean she did had a pretty natural reaction to her city and people being blown up and basically having the last few years of her life mean -nothing- because despite all the attempts for peace she made over the years, and then after Aethas say 'welp that'll never happen again!' she has sunreavers abuse dalarans neutrality -again- to steal the divine bell even after he'd sworn up and down he'd have a better handle on them, it made him look pretty complacent and callous, so while the purge was -harsh- it was hardly unjustified imo.

previous poster covers it. horde favoritism. there are plenty of things in azeroth to kill even after the horde is iradicated. so lets get with it.

[Skytotem]

Because you obvsly only accept half of the story. It wasnt Aethas who betrayed Dalaran or broke the neutrality of the city - Jaina broke the neutrality by helping Darnassus against the Horde, KILLING Horde members in Dalaran. Also, if we're serioes, Dalaran is Jaina's city and she was as responsible for the actions of the individuel Sunreavers as Aethas was. It looked like the "betrayel" of the Sunreavers was long awaited by Jaina and her buddy Vereesa.

As to bombing Theramore - what did Jaina expect by letting her city be a harbor for the Alliance troops invading Horde territory? She was never neutral to begin with, and Garrosh was acted clever by not wasting troops to burn Theramore down. As for Sylvanas actions, its war... please stop crying for her to be killed off, she is the most interesting (loved and hated) character in WoW, and her being killed wont happen in WoWs life time.

1. I never said he did, I just said that having it happen twice under his watch made him look either complicit or incompetent.

2. I think it's implied that all cities, not just darnassus, benefit from having Dalaran's Leylines usually locked or being unable to teleport using them. If she were really violating neutrality she would've let the Alliance just teleport into Org.

3. I don't really agree with that but she -did- handle them after it became apparent aethas wouldn't.

4. I never said Theramoore wasn't a valid target.

5. She's only 'interesting' because she's fetishized by the playerbase, if not she'd be much the same as Garrosh :\ And I'm not even crying for her to be killed off here, I'm asking why what she does is 'okay' and 'just war' when what Jaina does isn't.

[Varbaro]

"what Jaina's done okay but Sylvanas not"

How about no

[Deleted]

Considering the Lich King was the most evil villain in the WoW universe that we've faced so far (DW being the most destructive, not the most evil)

How is the Lich King more evil than Deathwing?

The Lich King just wanted to unite all of Azeroth under the Scourge banner in order to have an army to defeat the Burning Legion.
Deathwing... he just wanted to kill everyone and everything.

[seta-san]

... Horde favoritism?

Hell if I know, I personally think Sylvanas should die.

actually. why hasn't she died? Her whole purpose after she regained her own will was to destroy Arthas for turning her into an banshee and using her to slaughter her own people. Job done. Isn't it time for the forsaken to be at peace?

[Darkenedfist]

She's only 'interesting' because she's fetishized by the playerbase,

Boobz arguement ftw!!!

[seta-san]

How is the Lich King more evil than Deathwing?

The Lich King just wanted to unite all of Azeroth under the Scourge banner in order to have an army to defeat the Burning Legion.
Deathwing... he just wanted to kill everyone and everything.

so far the only evil villians we can really say there are, are the legion and the old gods. Every other villain we've had has been either insane or corrupted by the former's powers. When you're insane or corrupted you're hardly responsible for your own actions.

[Verdugo]

Isn't it time for the forsaken to be at peace?

After seeing how depraved humanity is, they slightly changed their goal.

[foxHeart]

Jaina gave them a chance to surrender, afaik. The alternative was to be put down like the slimy blood elf garbage that they are. They chose their path, she just helped them along.

[seta-san]

After seeing how depraved humanity is, they slightly changed their goal.

and their going to solve humanity's depravity with.... insane acts of depravity including sentencing even more people to the hellish existence of undeath? by creating continuing the lich king's works in creating abominations? and doesn't it also strike you that probably half or more of the undead is human to begin with the other half being mostly high elves?

[Verdugo]

to the hellish existence of undeath??

You dont know how it is. Only complaint I hear about it that it is different.

[babo7000]

After seeing how depraved humanity is, they slightly changed their goal.

After Sylvanas saw what awaited her after death (assuming it wasn't an illusion)she changed their goal.

[-aiko-]

... Horde favoritism?

Hell if I know, I personally think Sylvanas should die.

We should have done away with her ages ago.

[Arganis]

Plus, she attempted to kill our lord and savior, green jesus.

Euh... I'm sorry but who's "green jesus"? O_o;

[Deleted]

You dont know how it is. Only complaint I hear about it that it is different.

Well you know walking around like a corpse, can kind of imagine it's not that pleasant.