Modern Feminism - What's the deal?

[Cybran]

his writings and promotion of such heavily influenced later attitudes towards women & their rights, however.

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Plat...men-66336.html

"Various natures are distributed in the same way in both creatures. Women share in every way of life just as men do (Bk V, 455 d-e)." Hence women will have the rightful opportunity to share in every task, including producers, rulers, and guardians, the breakdown of Plato's society.

He was one of many who influenced it. Pointing to the one most extremist shows your own bias.

[Raiju]

Attitudes towards women and their rights only improved since then...

You'd have to write that men are only good for their sperm to make some women happy.

It's a shame I didn't keep the quote tbh.

[Shepherd57]

his writings and promotion of such heavily influenced later attitudes towards women & their rights, however.

He also favored older men "tutoring younger men." Not excluding having relations with men and women at the same time. If you are going to read a philosopher after one or two generations you have to detach any historical value from the fundamental truths that transcend generations.

[Ebildays]

Not everything men do is about gender roles. Not everything women do is about gender roles eiter.

http://kotaku.com/5985822/why-were-t...tation-4-event

The problem with Modern feminism is that it tries to create gender issues where there are none. It tries to elbow its way in every male dominated field and ruin it from the inside. That is the main problem with Modern feminism. Demanding equality where women are behind treatment but clinging on to old privileges like male disposability.

Thanks for letting me know that as a woman if I wanted to go into the gaming field I would ruin it from the inside. Or nevermind the fact for a long time gaming and activities like that was seen as a "male" thing and most females were not encouraged to play video games or even had video games that would appeal to them. This is why I don't like to play with male gamers "face to face" anymore, just too much hate or "I went easy on you" way of thinking.

It would have been nice to see a female presenter at the playstation event because just like men, women too want to feel that they are valued customers by a company that wants their money.

As for clinging to male disposablility you need to address the fact that women fought for and won the right to be in active combat in the army (US only). Women are not clinging to male disposablility as much as you think or feel, as it stands now old gender roles are becoming a thing of the past. Women are rolling with it while it seems that men are the ones clinging to them or crying for the lost of their "purpose".

[Shepherd57]

Thanks for letting me know that as a woman if I wanted to go into the gaming field I would ruin it from the inside. Or nevermind the fact for a long time gaming and activities like that was seen as a "male" thing and most females were not encouraged to play video games or even had video games that would appeal to them. This is why I don't like to play with male gamers "face to face" anymore, just too much hate or "I went easy on you" way of thinking.

It would have been nice to see a female presenter at the playstation event because just like men, women too want to feel that they are valued customers by a company that wants their money.

As for clinging to male disposablility you need to address the fact that women fought for and won the right to be in active combat in the army (US only). Women are not clinging to male disposablility as much as you think or feel, as it stands now old gender roles are becoming a thing of the past. Women are rolling with it while it seems that men are the ones clinging to them or crying for the lost of their "purpose".

/sarcasm I think a woman's place is watching her man play video games and fetching him drinks.

But in all honestly I have a friend whose wife really seems to enjoy watching him play video games and getting him drinks...makes me jealous.

[Elim Garak]

It would have been nice to see a female presenter at the playstation event

Then why no woman expressed the wish to be there?

[starlord]

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Plat...men-66336.html
He was one of many who influenced it. Pointing to the one most extremist shows your own bias.

not really, im pointing to the ones who were most successful and had the largest influence.

other than religion of course.

[Cybran]

It would have been nice to see a female presenter at the playstation event because just like men, women too want to feel that they are valued customers by a company that wants their money.

It would have been. I 100% agree with you. Women also play video games and should have a representation. However the fact that there was no woman on stage DOESN'T automatically mean sexism. It just doesn't. The reasons could have been dozens, but the over sensitive feminists over reacted and blew it out of proportion. Pointing fingers and calling Misogyny at the first chance.

They could achieve so much more if they acted like normal human beings instead of entitled children demanding quotas.

not really, im pointing to the ones who were most successful and had the largest influence.

other than religion of course.

His teacher Plato told him that women are equal, but he didn't agree with his teacher. I think you overestimate the influence of philosophers a little.

[Elim Garak]

not really, im pointing to the ones who were most successful and had the largest influence.

How could you possibly manage to evaluate that? Can I see a comparison table?

[Tinykong]

It would have been nice to see a female presenter at the playstation event because just like men, women too want to feel that they are valued customers by a company that wants their money.

Forced equality for the sake of equality is worse than natural inequality, imo.

There is a huge push in higher education to get women into science, engineering and math. They will basically just toss money at women who want to enter into the fields, and men are left to fend for themselves. Instead of incentivizing women into fields they are under represented in, why not just stick to the anti-discrimination laws we already have and let the market function organically? All this reverse discrimination is sickening.

[starlord]

How could you possibly manage to evaluate that? Can I see a comparison table?

because... he and other greek philosophers laid most of the foundations for western philosophy and science?
and the greeks were as a whole a pretty misogynist society and encouraged such views in their writings.

[Cybran]

because... he and other greek philosophers laid most of the foundations for western philosophy and science?
and the greeks were as a whole a pretty misogynist society and encouraged such views in their writings.

Again. You ignore the part where Plato who is the foundation of Aristotle taught that women are just as capable and equal. Foundations are not everything.

[starlord]

Again. You ignore the part where Plato who is the foundation of Aristotle taught that women are just as capable and equal. Foundations are not everything.

well we can sit here all day debating but the fact is his view of women was the one that was widespread in western society up until the first womens rights movements.

[Lysah]

Again. You ignore the part where Plato who is the foundation of Aristotle taught that women are just as capable and equal. Foundations are not everything.

What gives you the idea that Plato believed in sex equality? Because he didn't outright bash women in his writing? Having just read several of his pieces, the best image of women Plato gave was that they were "necessary." I never got the idea that he thought they were anything remotely close to equal, only that he recognized society would fail if it contained zero women.

[Raiju]

What gives you the idea that Plato believed in sex equality? Because he didn't outright bash women in his writing?

Given they're talking about their writings that would be a pretty damn clear indicator.

[Lysah]

Given they're talking about their writings that would be a pretty damn clear indicator.

I have yet to see a single piece of evidence to back up any of the extremely subjective opinions on the last two pages. "Plato said this because I said so."

[Raiju]

I have yet to see a single piece of evidence to back up any of the extremely subjective opinions on the last two pages. "Plato said this because I said so."

"Plato didn't say X despite it being the popular opinion of his day"? If I were writing for future generations and I were a misogynist I'd have whole chapters on how to treat the women unequally correctly.

But I'm not getting involved with the actual topic at hand, after all according to one of the people posting I'm just a sperm donor and nothing more.

[Lysah]

"Plato didn't say X despite it being the popular opinion of his day"? If I were writing for future generations and I were a misogynist I'd have whole chapters on how to treat the women unequally correctly.

Why? These issues were, at time, virtually nonexistant as the culture was pretty normalized. It would have been a huge waste of time for Plato to theorize about women's role in society when there was no question as to the status of women at the time. He only concerned himself with matters that were of philosophic relevance.

[Cybran]

I have yet to see a single piece of evidence to back up any of the extremely subjective opinions on the last two pages. "Plato said this because I said so."

http://www.irasg.com/social%20growth...ue%20IV/14.pdf

There is an underlying paradox that exists between Plato’s and Aristotle’s
writings pertaining to women. This contradiction between the writings asks the
question of why was it acceptable for Plato to take the approach of making women
and men equal and why Aristotle saw women as being inferior to men. This paper
hopes to examine this inconsistency by not only examining each of Aristotle and
Plato’s respective views

[Linkedblade]

So, they want equality. Well then, if they want equality than the entire system needs some work. Any laws dealing with gender have to be thrown out. Everything, everywhere must become unisex.

Clothing industry needs to make ammends as well. No more men, women, girls, or sections in department stores. There must only be one clothing section. Clothes cannot state they are particularly for men/boys or for women/girls. Sizes must be based only on high or waste sizes.

I for one am in total favor of individual equality. However the idea that everyone is equal is complete and utter bullshit. We know that some individuals can carry the offspring of the species and others can deliver spermatozoa. In this case those are not mutually exclusive. Gender is a joke. Each individual is entirely unique. There is no other person that is exactly you. So now we come to a crossroads in thought. Either stick to the premise that everyone is equal (which we know not to be true) or stick to the premise that everyone is equal. No exceptions. Ever. The latter is the problem we have had for hundreds of years now.

It seems everyone wants to group eachother up, as if that would make something more convenient. I use this same argument with race: If you want race to go away than you must break the chain. You must throw all preconceptions at the window and start fresh. Never refer to a woman as a woman, treat her as an individual. Never refer to a man as a man, treat him as an individual. Never say "him" or "her" rather use "one" or "one's." It's not really that difficult.