Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
LastLast
  1. #181
    Things that people want have value. And we have more things that people want than we know what to do with.

    Combine that with a stable (relatively) government and that's all the backing our currency needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  2. #182
    High Overlord Eomar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Minnesota.
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Despite what you might hear, with the exception of some surveillance issues thats largely where Obama is. Right in the center.
    Ok, this one made me chuckle! Obama in the center? Lol, come on man be serious!
    Live Free...

  3. #183
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Strangely enough, I have to side with Wells on the gold standard issue. I've never understood how gold is inherently valuable. Because we say it is? But isn't that how our money works now? I mean, what can you do with gold? You can make jewelry and computer chips. That's about it. You know what things do have actual, tangible value? Canned food. Bullets. Gasoline. If society somehow collapsed, these are the things people would care about. Nobody is going to give two shits about some flimsy, shiny metal when their life is on the line. If you want to back our currency with something valuable, back it with food, bullets, and oil.
    Normally your currency is, or at least backed by, something that is rare. Gold has always been held to a high value. From ancient times to now. It's also nice to mention that the value of gold (or silver) is usually pretty stable. It's not that gold's value has gone up, it's that the value of the dollar has plummeted. The Federal Reserve prints absurds amounts of US currency. That's what we call inflation. As for people finding a vein of gold somewhere doesnt reduce the value of already owned gold.

  4. #184
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,210
    Quote Originally Posted by Eomar View Post
    Ok, this one made me chuckle! Obama in the center? Lol, come on man be serious!
    On the world scale he would be a bit to the right, if I remember correctly. His policies are fairly conservative. The AHA, for example, originated from the Heritage Foundation.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Eomar View Post
    Ok, this one made me chuckle! Obama in the center? Lol, come on man be serious!
    Look at the issues.

    Hawkish on defense.
    Pushes health care laws that the GOP first created.
    Wants to both cut spending and increase taxes.
    Pushes for gun control that is in large part wildly popular.
    Supports social systems that are wildly popular on both sides.

    I mean seriously, aside from the paranoid rhetoric he's really a centrist.

    As for people finding a vein of gold somewhere doesnt reduce the value of already owned gold.
    Any increase in the supply of gold decreases the value of gold. Basic market economics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  6. #186
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Things that people want have value. And we have more things that people want than we know what to do with.

    Combine that with a stable (relatively) government and that's all the backing our currency needs.
    And how do they trade things without something else of value. If the money is backed by nothing, it is worth nothing. How hard is that to comprehend? We can't barter, but originally money was meant to be more of an "IOU x amount gold/silver" than just some abstract idea of debt.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Yeah, well a money backed by fear only lasts so long. Having something physical that actually has some worth is a bt more stable than something sbstract.
    American debts are easily backed by its working force. Even modest tax increases would shave the debt to GDP ratio. Let's say 40% income tax on top earners, 5% federal sale tax and capital gains taxed as income aside from the first $10000 a year. There you guy, tangible backed debt.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    And how do they trade things without something else of value. If the money is backed by nothing, it is worth nothing. How hard is that to comprehend? We can't barter, but originally money was meant to be more of an "IOU x amount gold/silver" than just some abstract idea of debt.
    The money is, again, backed by the immense wealth of the country that uses it. We use the currency as a proxy for that wealth since its more convenient.

    And you can't really claim that "IOU X gold that's sitting in a vault somewhere that has little to no more intrinsic value than this paper" is more or less real than what we have now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  9. #189
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Look at the issues.

    Hawkish on defense.
    Pushes health care laws that the GOP first created.
    Wants to both cut spending and increase taxes.
    Pushes for gun control that is in large part wildly popular.
    Supports social systems that are wildly popular on both sides.

    I mean seriously, aside from the paranoid rhetoric he's really a centrist.


    Any increase in the supply of gold decreases the value of gold. Basic market economics.
    It really depends on what scale you are saying he is centrist on. Are you talking the scale between totalitarian<->libertarian? Or one of the bastardized scales? Normally I see him along with most republicans and democrats to the far left of the scale.

  10. #190
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,210
    Is the push for gun control really "wildly popular"? I haven't seen many conservatives being happy with it.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Willy View Post
    Is the push for gun control really "wildly popular"? I haven't seen many conservatives being happy with it.
    I've seen quite a few conservatives who say 'YOU CANT BAN OUR GUNS!', and lots of other conservatives who say 'Increased Gun Control, especially eliminating the so called gun show loophole, would be a good thing'.

    The only people claiming anyone is going to ban guns (or that it has a chance to stand up to the current SC) are the gun industry who are using fear and paranoia to sell firearms to the exact people that shouldn't have them.

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    You do know that Keynsian economics isn't a synonym for government intervention right?

    And recessions are natural market events.
    Uh, normally when talking about Keynesianism, you are removing certain aspects of the free market, and as such government intervention follows. Prime example: The New Deal.

  13. #193
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indiana, US
    Posts
    11,278
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    The only people claiming anyone is going to ban guns (or that it has a chance to stand up to the current SC) are the gun industry who are using fear and paranoia to sell firearms to the exact people that shouldn't have them.
    Well, them and Skroesec, who seems to be giddy with joy over the idea of taking my guns.

  14. #194
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Kenosha, Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,210
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Well, them and Skroesec, who seems to be giddy with joy over the idea of taking my guns.
    Those people tend to be on the fringe of the conversation. Can't think of anybody taking that idea seriously.

  15. #195
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indiana, US
    Posts
    11,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Normally your currency is, or at least backed by, something that is rare. Gold has always been held to a high value. From ancient times to now. It's also nice to mention that the value of gold (or silver) is usually pretty stable. It's not that gold's value has gone up, it's that the value of the dollar has plummeted. The Federal Reserve prints absurds amounts of US currency. That's what we call inflation. As for people finding a vein of gold somewhere doesnt reduce the value of already owned gold.
    I just don't get it, personally. I mean, no matter how much economic science you throw at it, it always come back to the fact that at some point we just arbitrarily decided that gold was valuable. I mean, if people think it should be valuable then I guess I'm fine with it. But to me, it makes more sense for a currency to be valued because you control resources, and the currency can be used to buy those resources.

    Which is, if I'm not mistaken, what we're currently doing.

  16. #196
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,593
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I just don't get it, personally. I mean, no matter how much economic science you throw at it, it always come back to the fact that at some point we just arbitrarily decided that gold was valuable. I mean, if people think it should be valuable then I guess I'm fine with it. But to me, it makes more sense for a currency to be valued because you control resources, and the currency can be used to buy those resources.

    Which is, if I'm not mistaken, what we're currently doing.
    Two things:
    1) I agree, but say you go to the bank and asked for your moneys worth of what it's back by, what would you get today? Nothing. As in it is $x worth of nothing. And where i come from anything*0=0.
    2) Well the law of the US specifically states that the currency should be backed by precious metals.

  17. #197
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indiana, US
    Posts
    11,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Two things:
    1) I agree, but say you go to the bank and asked for your moneys worth of what it's back by, what would you get today? Nothing. As in it is $x worth of nothing. And where i come from anything*0=0.
    2) Well the law of the US specifically states that the currency should be backed by precious metals.
    Well you can't go to the bank and trade your money for gold, but you can go to the steel mill and buy a big chunk of processed metal which you can actually use. To me, that just makes sense. Our money is valuable because this country produces things that people want. Our currency grows and shrinks with our production capacity, and people's faith in our continued prosperity. Sure, it may not be as stable as gold-backed currency. But because we have such a massive economy, basing our money on our production gives us enormous economic power, which no other nation can compete with. We get a lot of benefits from the way our currency works. And in my opinion, those benefits outweigh the fluctuations in our dollar's value.

    But I'll be the first to admit, economics is more of a casual interest to me than an actual area of expertise. Nobody should be putting too much value in to what I'm saying.

  18. #198
    Pit Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Aarhus, Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    2,489
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggid View Post
    Make importing goods so insanely expensive that businesses are "inclined" to do the work here and pay a fair wage to its employees. Also a reduction in exporting costs on our end wouldn't hurt either. There is no need to remain overseas for cheap labor if in the end the cost is higher than if the job was done here, paying Minimum wage of 9$ per hour or better.
    You want to fix your economy by making exporting impossible? "i said importing" yes you did and i say that if the us does that everyone else does it to you.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    It’s quite clear that there’s no constitutional authority for the federal government to be involved in education, regardless of what the Supreme Courthas claimed.
    Even if it's not constitutional, who cares? It's better to have a literate, semi-educated population than one that isn't.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by dantian View Post
    Even if it's not constitutional, who cares? It's better to have a literate, semi-educated population than one that isn't.
    The problem would be that in general, the more educated one gets the more liberal one gets (US Liberalism, anyway).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •