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  1. #401
    Brewmaster jahasafrat's Avatar
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    I didn't like Cataclysm when it was current and I don't like it now. I dislike it to the point where I won't play any of my alts past Northrend anymore.

  2. #402
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Do observe that I wrote "the standard PuG group."
    With everyone in ICC 10 gear, of course you could chain pull them.
    In WotLK, the average pug-group had ICC-10 gear

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    OK may be not shit, but not as good as you made it.

    Kara is by far the "most interesting" raid IMO, and for epic-ness, Ulduar, they tried to re-create that Ulduar feel in ICC but just didn't feel the same.

    But everyone have different taste, so if ICC is your favourite, no one can argue that, just not my favourite that's all.

    Dark chocolate is disgusting :P to each their own
    To be fair i just said "one of the best raids". I didnt say it was THE ultimate best one ever xoxo :P
    Kara and naxx are easily in the top with icc on my list of best raids ever.

    And also... dark chocolate is an acquiered taste like whiskey and olives just to mention a few.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Snes View Post
    Anyone else noticing the gradual nostalgia that's growing on these forums lately? I'm seeing a lot of "Pandaria is boring, at least Cata had XYZ" popping up, and if you look at their posts from last year near the end of Cata they were ripping it a new one in their comments.

    I think we all knew this was going to happen, I just find it funny that it's happening so early this time around.
    Don't be fooled. The other day a poll asked "which xpac was the worst" and Cata won with well over 50% of the vote. Blizzard is largely correct when they talk about "the silent majority." MMO-Champion and forums tend to draw the most extreme players, and about 33-50% of these extreme players were the only ones to like Cata and hate on Mists the day it was announced.

  5. #405
    Mop sucks Cata sucked the only decent x-PAC we had recently was wotlk. Even that wasn't that great but it was bearable. The last x-pac I had fun in was tbc. So ur last x-pac nostalgia philosophy is false. All u have too do is look at mop and u"ll see how far this game has fallen.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by smokii View Post
    i fixed that for you

    but on topic, i dont have any rose tinted nostaligia glasses on, cata was shit. we all know it was shit and anyone really trying to convince us all it was great, is just trolling.

    in fact, there was a "whats your least favourite expansion" thread yesterday with a vote, cata was way out in the lead on that, so although there are probably a few out there who really enjoyed cata (likely people who started end of wrath/throughout cata), there's still plenty more who realise just how bad it sucked.

    MoP is a huge improvement - whilst dailies aren't everyones cup of tea, there is enough content to keep people occupied outside of dailies - not forgetting that MoP introduced challenge modes, scenarios, LFR for every raid and pet battles. it might be debateable as to which works for you, but thats still an ass-load more content than cata had.

    edit - before anyone flames me for this, i ofc realise cata did the 1-60 content, which was huge in itself, but for anyone who started before mid-wotlk, thats a lot of content that doesn't really mean much to you, other than the ability to fly over azeroth to bore yourself to death with archaeology. when i heard cata would re-do 1-60, i kinda expected a 40/60 split in terms of workload, 60% of the blizz workforce working on new endgame content, 40% working on the 1-60 shizzle - whereas in reality it worked to be something like 85% rehash, 15% endgame. blizz underestimated the cost of revamping old azeroth and thats what made cata pretty shit. nothing can ever change that.

    cata was also the expansion where i left (out of boredom) to try other games, skyrim, rift and 6 months playing swtor, it was also the expansion that pretty systematically broke my guild - it'd have to be a pretty solid nostaligia trip to make me forget about that.

    edit 2: also, they cancelled the abyssal maw raid AND the well of eternity raid, then changed WoE into a 5 man, mucho dissapointo.
    this = perfect analysis. Also, you can't consider the 1-60 revamp Cata since it was a pre-Cata patch technically speaking. Anyway, Cata was awful and made me sick of WoW as it did most other players

  7. #407
    Herald of the Titans
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    Each expansion has tried a different method to impress people. Vanilla was an appeal to the raiders from Everquest and Warcraft fans. Burning Crusade was another attempt to appeal to raiders. Wrath was an appeal to a more casual audience. Cataclysm was an appeal to a hardcore crowd, again because apparently Wrath was "too easy." Mists is an appeal to the average player as it tries to give everyone something to do.

    Say what you will but the game itself has never been "bad" or "good." It's been excellent and I have never had a bad experience.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Lockula View Post
    Cata end game was not good. I remember maxxing out the starter reps in the first few weeks (senior collage finals, graduation, holidays). Then saying well, might get to farming herbs for raid cauldrons. The first tier was interesting as well the second aside from rhyolith. Dragon soul I remember my group going in and one shotting the first three bosses. Didn't do the fourth since we ran out of raid time that night.
    Unless your guild played on the PTR i can't believe you "1 shotted" the second or third bosses. God damn people using these forums to stroke their own ego.

  9. #409
    Yes, cataclysm is suddenly good now that the novelty of MoP has worn out.
    The best thing about WoW is not the community, the game play, the end-game, the quality, etc. All of those are fairly mediocre by today's standards.
    The best thing about WoW is the nostalgia, and for that reason the current expansion/patch will always be generally viewed as crap, while older expansions/patches will be venerated.

    It's like high school, you complain about it endlessly while you're there, but 5 years later you look back and say "best time of my life". Not because your current life is worse, but because certain types of experience are better appreciated in memory, not during the experience itself.

  10. #410
    I didnt complain about BC one bit...not even once. I loved it then and still do.

  11. #411
    Because a bad expansion can have good things about it. People forget how shitty most things were and remember the thing that was good compared to MoP's similar, but worse, thing.

    I.e., you could gear up your alts through dungeons and go into LFR in a short period of time during Cata. Now, gearing up an alt is a more involved and lengthy process. People enjoyed Cata's gearing process for their alts more than MoP's. So, even though everything else in Cata may have sucked, they remember being able to gear up alts faster and easier and then have this memory of Cata being good and enjoyable compared to MoP.

    An expansion won't ever be just flat out better. They will always change things about this, that, and the other thing, and some things may be better and some things may be worse. It happens every time and it fully explains why people complain about the current expansion and praise the previous one. It's not confounding at all.

  12. #412
    Cata started out very rough, leveled out and was ok in the middle, got horrible again, and ultimately ended on a good note. I'd happily erase all memories of Wrath from my head, though.

    By "good note" I mean I said goodbye with a friendly handshake and a smile, but wasn't sad to see it go. I left Wrath screaming in bloodlust and stabbing it in the chest.
    Last edited by zenyatta; 2013-02-16 at 04:24 AM.

  13. #413
    I thought Cata was okay with some flaws, but Pandaria has just been completely uninteresting to me. Going with the monotone of PANDAREN bores me, especially when I don't find Asian culture all that interesting to begin with.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  14. #414
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    In WotLK, the average pug-group had ICC-10 gear
    Not until about a year in... and by that time, no one was running the heroic dungeons (unless they were running guildies through it) because they were Pugging ICC.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #415
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    People rarely quit "for one reason." And as for "after Wrath dungeons being so easy," that's another fallible point. LFD was only instated during 3.5, when Blizzard actually put in heroics that required effort to complete.
    Patch 3.5? That's a new one. You probably mean 3.3
    And frankly, 3.3 heroics were ridiculously easier than the Cata ones at the start. Because - guess what - people were already running a lot of stuff, including a perfectly puggable TOC and the TOC 5-man providing 219 (iirc) loot. While in Cata, people were at most in blues to start heroics, which were longer and probably harder (at least as healer) than the 3.3 ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The standard PuG group couldn't ignore the boss strategies in H Forge of Souls, you'd die in soul vortex or end up getting your healer killed in well of souls. You couldn't chain pull trash mobs in H Pit of Saron; they'd quickly overwhelm and wipe you. And H halls of reflection... well, that one speaks for itself. They weren't mind-bendingly hard heroics, they just required perseverance.
    Yet they were infinitely easier to complete.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except one could easily learn how to do said content. It was a learning experience at times for some, sure, but learning experiences are necessary.
    In a perfect world where people do not pay subs, perhaps. In practice, most people are not very good at what they do, and if they don't get the bang out of their buck, they just go try something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And if the harm were "indeed done," that's even more of a reason to stick to their guns. If all the people that supposedly quit because heroics were "too difficult" had indeed done so, do you think they would have been lured back by raid patches?
    There was the DS heroics to correct the situation. They were quit easy to complete and provided people with a catch-up (whether it was a good idea or not is another discussion). Also, there was LFR. Those two combined have indeed lured a lot of players back, because they could - for once - do something besides dailies and BGs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Also note that a LOT of people got tired of Dragon Soul very quickly... Three piss-easy dungeons certainly didn't help keep it any more interesting any longer.
    As I was saying in my initial post in this thread, Cataclysm poured a lot of resources into Old World revamping. As a corollary, there was less resources left for everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except more times than not (many, many, MANY more times than not) they managed to.
    Not really, no. I could talk to you about 4 hours heroic SL (without me, thank God), people leaving after the first wipe and so on. Nothing unusual compared to Cata initial heroics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And moreover, I ask, if five man heroic dungeons aren't supposed to be difficult, then what IS supposed to act as the skill median between leveling and raids?
    Nothing. Because - guess what - raiders are a tiny minority within WoW population. You don't design content based on that. People level to max, do (easy) 5-man and then do LFR. Most of them stop there. Everything above (raiders) is a tiny population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Gear doesn't grant you competency, only testing your skill over and over again does. Outside of raids and challenge modes (and PvP, but that's seperate,) that sort of thing doesn't exist. If someone doesn't want their skill tested, that's fine, and they had ways of "not having their skill tested" while still running content. In essence, Blizzard has removed the "log on at your own leisure and drop into some thought involving PvE content" aspect from the game. Which is what I take issue with.
    Don't get me started about skill in BC. BC was even more about gear. Because don't tell me that an imba rotation of BC enh shaman consisting of 3 buttons required skill. Or the legendary shadow bolt spam (or immo/incinerate) of warlocks. Compared to today, DPS rotations and healing toolkits are much more complicated than in BC. Tanking is easier, that's true, but that's about it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 03:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Cata was a pretty lazy expansion in terms of raid content. In Wrath you had 3 tiers with more than 10 bosses(sure Naxx was recycled but most people never saw Naxx60) and 4 total tiers. The first 2 had triggered hardmodes for a number of bosses and the last 2 had normal and heroic levels. The heroics in ICC werent that different than Cata heroic raids where you basically add 1 more ability and more boss health and damage.
    As I already said, yes, it's true because the old world revamp took a lot of resources. It may not have been the best decision, but in my opinion it had to be done. And it would have gone infinitely easier if they didn't screw up the initial 5 mans in the process.

  16. #416
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    Cata was pretty good tbh,, (apart from the obvious bad things) the only thing i didnt like was the separate zones and the shitty story and cack assed boss called deathwing who nobody partcularly gave a shit about ;p

    Cata is/was far more enjoyable and fun than this pile of shit that is MoP !!
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  17. #417
    Stood in the Fire Nerfarien's Avatar
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    No actually, I haven't heard it anywhere but on some forums where the whiners were crying about mop as usual at the beginning of a new expansion.
    I hated Cataclysm pretty much tho. The first tier was amazing bar Al'akir and his bitches. Firelands nearly burned out my eyes and DS was around for way too long. I don't say that it wasn"t useful either: the reform on the old content questing system made leveling few alt characters bareable as opposed to the old one ( tough the linear quest system was not my favourite)
    As for MoP I think it is a pretty good expansion so far, the amount of lore they could squeeze out of an unknown continent was actually amazing, altough I think the new raid is coming out a bit early. The horrible rep/daily farming is really out of its place, that is for sure and some raid encounters were horrible, but other than that it is pretty cool imo

  18. #418
    High Overlord Rigimi44's Avatar
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    Nope, I still hate Cataclysm. The story/questing in WotLK was great, but heroic dungeons were a little too easy and raids were too PUG-abble. I can't speak for BC, because I wasn't around when the content was new.
    Formerly The Dwarf Lover (TDL)

  19. #419
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    The first tier was good, but subsequent tiers of PvE and PvP in general were pretty poor, in my opinion.

  20. #420
    Bloodsail Admiral WarpKnight's Avatar
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    No. Cataclysm is bad, and will always be bad...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robutt View Post
    The first tier was good, but subsequent tiers of PvE and PvP in general were pretty poor, in my opinion.
    The truth!

    Tier 11 was a very much 'acceptable' tier. Tiers 12 and 13 were downhill on a massive scale.
    Currently Playing: Blood Death Knight, Arcane Mage

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