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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    What spec? With what bomb?
    How much haste?

    I think it's the r-ppm system : a lot more random
    Fire spec, Nether Tempest, 11.68% haste from gear.

    Yeah I know its the rppm system I am just kinda surprised at some of the huge gaps in procs

  2. #142
    Switch out your LotC. I don't know if its a bug or something. but it seems that you cannot use 2 periodic damage trinkets.

    By the way, i got Wushoolay and its horrible with fire, like 1min holding my combustion waiting for a proc
    Last edited by Steeljp; 2013-03-07 at 01:53 PM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeljp View Post
    Switch out your LotC. I don't know if its a bug or something. but it seems that you cannot use 2 periodic damage trinkets.

    By the way, i got Wushoolay and its horrible with fire, like 1min holding my combustion waiting for a proc
    What do you mean, they have both procced at the same time for me on numerous occasions. The issue here is that going many many minutes without a hydra proc is intended design. This new proc system seems a little bit too RNG for me.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenevieva View Post
    What do you mean, they have both procced at the same time for me on numerous occasions. The issue here is that going many many minutes without a hydra proc is intended design. This new proc system seems a little bit too RNG for me.
    A guildie got it yesterday and was not getting any procs until he switched LotC out.

  5. #145
    I have RoY 2/2 and LotC normal 0/2, should I get the shadopan assault trinket ? To replace which one of mine ? I'm playing frost atm.

    Thanks for any info !

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenevieva View Post
    So I got Breath of the Hydra last night, but wth is wrong with the proc chance, from testing on a target dummy as fire spec I can easily go 5+ minutes without a proc. Seriously considering using an older trinket
    I just got it too and I was also thinking about not using it since it's so rng. Did over 100mio dmg to a target dummy (around 17min) and the gaps between proccs were huge sometimes. Sure, sometimes it lined up perfectly with my LotC (they do work together...) and I even got a back-to-back procc once but sometimes I would go like 3min without a single procc. (or a procc just right after AT -> combustion :/ )

    I seriously don't know if it's worth it to use it since especially fire relies on a strong opening and if you can't rely on your trinkets to procc at the start of the fight you will have a really hard time to set up a good AT + combustion.

    Specc was fire with NT, 5929 haste (13,95%). (Forgot to log it unfortunately - I will do further testing tomorrow and I will log it)

  7. #147
    i think all the tot trinkets are bugged atm (the ppm ones) theres been an issue where ppm trinkets wont proc over 4min+!! i highly recommend you using shadopan assualt trinket (45s icd) and H LoTC from elegon

  8. #148
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    i think all the tot trinkets are bugged atm (the ppm ones) theres been an issue where ppm trinkets wont proc over 4min+!! i highly recommend you using shadopan assualt trinket (45s icd) and H LoTC from elegon
    It's not really a bug. It's just that the proc chance is so low under 2 ppm that it can proc from twice in a row to 1 times in 5+ minutes.

    from what I have see :
    • > 2 pmm : proc as intented
    • ~2 ppm : proc correctly, less predicable than ICD
    • ~1 ppm : proc more randomly / still "in-check"
    • < 1 pmm : proc are totally random / isn't reliable

    Note : there's less complain with Wushoolay because of it's 22s ICD, giving it a 10 times proc chance for the first spell just after.
    They can just add ICD to all trinket, to give ONE better proc rate after some time.
    Last edited by Nathyiel; 2013-03-11 at 10:12 AM.
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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    Note : there's less complain with Wushoolay because of it's 22s ICD, giving it a 10 times proc chance for the first spell just after.
    They can just add ICD to all trinket, to give ONE better proc rate after some time.
    Yeah that would be an option but I'd rather like to see something different.

    IMHO the procc rate should increase over time, with the procc rate increasing more and more the longer it hasn't procced (capping at a certain point, i.e. 15% or 20% which would be similar to common ICD trinkets).

    But this increasing-process should only start if the trinket hasn't procced for xx amount of time (could be 90/120 sec or something, depending on intended up-time). That way we could at least rely on the trinket to procc at the start of the fight (which is huge for a lot of classes/speccs IMO) and there would be less chance for those RNG driven draughts with no proccs for 3+ min.

  10. #150
    Ive been using Wushoolay’s Final Choice most of this week changing from fire to frost often. For fire it never seems to proc much but for frost its amazing. I dont understand all the maths behind the new trinket system but what i did notice happening alot (maybe 50% of the time) was that when i used AT at around 7 stacks of the trinket it would proc again straight after. It might just be chance or maybe theres a reason behind it, i dunno. Id get 1-7 AT 7-10 AT over 7-10 then trinket would proc again 1-10. Like i said maybe it was just luck but for me it happened t many times for it just to be chance.

  11. #151
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    This trinket have a 22s ICD to force stack to 0 before any other proc. It's also give it a better proc chance (x10) for the first spell after the ICD.
    Why does it chain proc with AT?
    With AT, you extend it's duration after the 22s ICD, so it have a huge probability to proc just at that time.

    Why does it have a better proc rate for Frost than Fire?
    R-ppm have an increase proc rate with haste and if less frequent.
    Frost have more haste than Fire, so it have a better proc rate by default.
    Fire have a lot of DoT so it have a lesser proc rate but it have a lot more number of chance to proc.
    Frost have less proc chance, especially with Frost bomb. So it have a better proc rate but it have a low number chance to proc, in comparison.

    We speack of 0.5% to 1% proc rate increase, here.

    If we take this two, we have a Frost spec with a higher proc rate (because of haste) with a 10 times bonus because of the ICD.
    Now, with number !!
    with Frost : 30% haste / 1.5s between damage (last change for r-ppm don't use 5% raid buff / 1% goblin)
    and Fire : 15% haste / 0.75s between damage
    We found :
    Frost : 0.56*1.25*1.5/60=1.75% proc rate
    Fire : 0.56*1.15*0.75/60=0.8% proc rate

    For the first damage after the ICD end :
    Frost : 0.56*1.25*10/60=11.66%
    Fire : 0.56*1.15*10/60=10.73%

    Conclusion : proc will be more random for Fire than Frost. The ICD make it a little more reliable.
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  12. #152
    I tried out Breath of the Hydra on Ji-Kun the bird boss, 25 man, as fire, over the course of the fight, I am not sure how long it took to kill but I only had 1 single proc which equated to 4% uptime. now I dont care what RPPM the trinket has, the system has failed. This trinket is not even worth using.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenevieva View Post
    I tried out Breath of the Hydra on Ji-Kun the bird boss, 25 man, as fire, over the course of the fight, I am not sure how long it took to kill but I only had 1 single proc which equated to 4% uptime. now I dont care what RPPM the trinket has, the system has failed. This trinket is not even worth using.
    Well GC at least acknowledged that they are thinking about changing something ...

    "We're considering some pseudo randomization in players' favor. E.g. if no proc, increase chance next time. Avoids bad streaks." Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) (https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...67406013296640)


    I just did some dummy testing as promised and it didn't seem too bad after all. Around 24 min, 21,3% uptime (17 proccs). That averages 1562 INT, so pretty much the same as predicted by the formula in the OP. (just for comparison: LotC did procc 31 times, uptime was a little low with 39% bc I clipped it twice with AT, bc I wasn't paying attention too much... xD)

    I was fire, with NT, 5929 haste and the following uptimes:

    Nether Tempest: 91,8%
    Ignite: 97,2%
    Pyro: 97,4%

    However I'm still skeptical too. Sometimes I got lucky and had back-to-back proccs but then, again, I had almost 4 min without a single procc! Imagine that for a 5-6min fight :/
    Considering buying the valor trinket too, unless they come up with a hotfix.

    You can check the log for yourself, if you like: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5...0jv/details/0/

    edit: And yes, I know that the sample size is way to small for any in-depth analysis - just take from it whatever you see fit.
    Last edited by Carline; 2013-03-11 at 04:53 PM.

  14. #154
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    Interesting of someone of another Math level than me : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gn-proposition
    The answers is 42
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by thanje View Post
    I have RoY 2/2 and LotC normal 0/2, should I get the shadopan assault trinket ? To replace which one of mine ? I'm playing frost atm.

    Thanks for any info !
    Bump - I'm in the same situation.

    Anyone know an answer to this as frost mage?

  16. #156
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartex View Post
    Bump - I'm in the same situation.

    Anyone know an answer to this as frost mage?
    Get the vp trinket and replace normal LotC. Make sure to use frost bomb and use int/haste gemming.
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  17. #157
    Will do. Even use frost bomb on single target instead of Nether Tempest?

  18. #158
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartex View Post
    Will do. Even use frost bomb on single target instead of Nether Tempest?
    Yep. Unless you're using LotC or Breath of the Hydra you should be using frost bomb.
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  19. #159
    Alright, I'm wondering tho what is the thought behind it if I may ask?
    Doesn't nether tempest benefit from haste as well by having extra ticks?

    Last question I have as well - On horridon and multi target fights, still use Frost bomb above nether tempest?

  20. #160
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Frost bomb scales with haste too you know. More haste decreases its cast time, cooldown and how quickly it detonates.

    On multi target fights frost bomb is often better then nt. You don't have to multi-dot with frost bomb and it does more aoe damage at higher amounts of targets.
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