Thread: Orcs vs Humans

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  1. #1

    Orcs vs Humans

    Disclaimer:

    I am very aware that this is a fantasy game. And know that appearances etc. mean nothing ingame.

    ------------------
    If you look at how the orcs are built etc and how intelligent they are (read the books), how is it possible that humans can win? (note: I said cán win)

    Sure one orc isn't the same as another. Same goes for humans. But really look at those muscles. How big they are. How combat trained they are from the moment they are very young.

    Look at the humans: Sure we might have had (in the past atleast) better fortifications. But humans are generally a little slender and less muscled vs the orcs. They don't start training with weapons as early and under less hard circumstances. They might get better schooling, but this is hardly noticable in the books. Sure there are dumb orcs, but there are dumb humans too.

    So if you look at it like this. How is it the humans have survived thusfar?

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    First off appearances can be a little deceiving for Humans, remember what they're descended from. They are probably more hardy in Warcraft than we are.

    Actual military training - The Alliance are taught to fight as soldiers and as an organised army. While the Orcs do spend their leisure time hacking and slashing, they do not train to fight as an army and practise to fight more as gladiators than as soldiers.

    Proper equipment - The average Humans is decked out head to toe in plate mail armour and given a sword and shield, these can even perhaps be crafted by Dwarves who are renowned for their skills at Blacksmithing. The average Grunt has a shoulder guard and a cheap axe, Orcs are not known as great smithers and until only recently started practice as back on Draenor they still lived as primitive hunter gatherer type of life style.

    More and better magic - Magi seem to be far more common among Humans than Shaman are among Orcs, they also have actual schools for such practices notably Dalaran. Paladins were comparable to the original Death Knights but as they're long gone there isn't a real comparison.

    Technology - This is a pretty obvious one. Humans fight with Guns and canons while the Orcs employ bows and catapults.

    A proper Navy - Again linked with technology the Humans have a proper functioning navy which is further supported by their technology they can bring to bear on them. Kul Tiras is also worth mentioning.

    History of fighting - This links in with pretty much all of the above, the Humans have been fighting as an army far longer than the Orcs have been who only began doing so after they became corrupted whereas Humans had been doing it for over two thousand years.

    Numbers - Humans are the most numerous of the two, especially after the Second War.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-14 at 02:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Lostwood's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Orcs in general aren't the brightest bunch. In fact, they're one of the dumbest playable races.

  4. #4
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Disclaimer:

    I am very aware that this is a fantasy game. And know that appearances etc. mean nothing ingame.

    ------------------
    If you look at how the orcs are built etc and how intelligent they are (read the books), how is it possible that humans can win? (note: I said cán win)

    Sure one orc isn't the same as another. Same goes for humans. But really look at those muscles. How big they are. How combat trained they are from the moment they are very young.

    Look at the humans: Sure we might have had (in the past atleast) better fortifications. But humans are generally a little slender and less muscled vs the orcs. They don't start training with weapons as early and under less hard circumstances. They might get better schooling, but this is hardly noticable in the books. Sure there are dumb orcs, but there are dumb humans too.

    So if you look at it like this. How is it the humans have survived thusfar?
    Simple facts...because war ,battle, and survival is not only about strength and muscles. It's also about experience, leading, weapons, technology, strategy,brain, and conviction.

    Sure 1 vs 1 gladiator combat orc has the advantege against human but when it's all out war army it's a different story.

  5. #5
    Orcs kicked the Humans' asses in the First War.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Actual military training - The Alliance are taught to fight as soldiers and as an organised army. While the Orcs do spend their leisure time hacking and slashing, they do not train to fight as an army and practise to fight more as gladiators than as soldiers.

    Proper equipment - The average Humans is decked out head to toe in plate mail armour and given a sword and shield, these can even perhaps be crafted by Dwarves who are renowned for their skills at Blacksmithing. The average Grunt has a shoulder guard and a cheap axe, Orcs are not known as great smithers and until only recently started practice as back on Draenor they still lived as primitive hunter gatherer type of life style.

    More and better magic - Magi seem to be far more common among Humans than Shaman are among Orcs, they also have actual schools for such practices notably Dalaran. Paladins were comparable to the original Death Knights but as they're long gone there isn't a real comparison.

    Technology - This is a pretty obvious one. Humans fight with Guns and canons while the Orcs employ bows and catapults.

    A proper Navy - Again linked with technology the Humans have a proper functioning navy which is further supported by their technology they can bring to bear on them. Kul Tiras is also worth mentioning.

    History of fighting - This links in with pretty much all of the above, the Humans have been fighting as an army far longer than the Orcs have been who only began doing so after they became corrupted whereas Humans had been doing it for over two thousand years.

    Numbers - Humans are the most numerous of the two, especially after the Second War.
    1. I wouldn't say that's the case after WC3, in Org you can see Kor'kron training tons of grunts in Org and such, they didn't get formal training BEFORE but they do now.

    2. Again, this was more the case prior to Cata, nowadays you see Grunts and such in heavy armor all the time.

    3. This is a fair point. Shaman serve a societal function in addition to combat functions so there are generally less of them at any given time.

    4. I'd say this was the case up until Cata where the orcs started swapping out trolls with spears for goblins with guns.

    5. This is a big one, the orcs navy sucks, lots of the ships fall apart (those off the shore of ashenvale)

    6. Ditto for this, orcs are fast learners but humans just have a longer history and experience to draw from. Granted Orcs being so ridiculously burly lorewise likely throws a wrench into some plans, but on the whole orcs are good commanders but poor strategists.

    7. True, though tragically never played up lorewise.
    Twas brillig

  7. #7
    Over 9000! Snowraven's Avatar
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    Because strengh doesn't count when you don't wear armor yet the other one is like in a tin can. Humans wear armor, orcs, look at all the grunds and whatnot, don't really. Orcs are strong, humans are resilient.

    Plus, let's take it from the points of smarts, let's assume both races are as smart. How does strengh matter now if one is sitting on a hill in a demolisher raining fire on humans and the other is sitting on the other hill in a siege tank raining fire on orcs?

  8. #8
    Well how can Orcs kill Vrykul?

    It's the same thing. Some Orcs win, some Orcs loose. Same goes for Human. It's the experience that counts and not how buffed up they are.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    It's the experience that counts and not how buffed up they are.
    Indeed it is the experience. But wouldn't you agree that a person who is more buffed... could atleast overcome the first experiences easier then one who wasn't? So ultimately there would be more orcs running around then humans...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Indeed it is the experience. But wouldn't you agree that a person who is more buffed... could atleast overcome the first experiences easier then one who wasn't? So ultimately there would be more orcs running around then humans...
    Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that a buffed up Orc can't really last through a fireball shot at his head now could he? Humans seem to have way more mages than Orcs though. Some Humans are more agilie than the Orcs. So even if he is buffed up, doesn't mean he can catch him before he slices his legs.
    Signature and Avatar by ElyPop

  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    1. I wouldn't say that's the case after WC3, in Org you can see Kor'kron training tons of grunts in Org and such, they didn't get formal training BEFORE but they do now.

    2. Again, this was more the case prior to Cata, nowadays you see Grunts and such in heavy armor all the time.
    Both true. But I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we thought that the Orcs were better or at the same level on both those points.
    Orcs still aren't as good smithers, but the Humans also have Dwarves for that aspect nowadays. Also if we're to get technical we at best see Orcs in mail, never full on plate mail with the exception of the Kor'kron.
    Also the other difference with training is that Orcs still don't have the organisation to train everybody in such practices as their society is still spread out and not as organised, whereas with Humans it's more formal and organised where you are all given training.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-14 at 04:19 PM.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire frigoffrick's Avatar
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    I wonder this when watching the MoP cinematic. The human tosses the orc around like a feather. The orc honestly looks like he weighs 500-700lbs.

    I assume warcraft humans are a bit more hefty and a lot more tougher then us in real life.

  13. #13
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    6. Ditto for this, orcs are fast learners but humans just have a longer history and experience to draw from. Granted Orcs being so ridiculously burly lorewise likely throws a wrench into some plans, but on the whole orcs are good commanders but poor strategists.
    This gets overlooked too much, and Garrosh is an epitome of this. HIs individiual battle plans are (generally) brilliant. He just doesn't understand the concepts of a full war strategy.

    Bombing of Theramore? Tactically brilliant. However, he didn't account for it pushing the Alliance into action.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    This gets overlooked too much, and Garrosh is an epitome of this. HIs individiual battle plans are (generally) brilliant. He just doesn't understand the concepts of a full war strategy.

    Bombing of Theramore? Tactically brilliant. However, he didn't account for it pushing the Alliance into action.
    I find it hard to follow his strategy, though. He sent multiple waves crashing into the gates of Theramore. I get that he wants the Alliance corralled in there and maybe even call in more reinforcements. But why did he send Thalen to break down one of the gates? Doing this had absolutely no point since he was dropping the bomb anyway. Was the bomb a contingency plan in case he couldn't breach by conventional means?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #15
    Well; Orcs are slightly less intelligent (though not less wise) than the average human, on the whole.
    Orcs are slightly tougher than the average human.

    Strength-wise, orcs and humans are equal.

    Humans, due to their intelligence, can make better use of armour. Not only can they craft better armours than orcs, but they are simply more skilled at wearing said armour, which puts them, endurance-wise, on-par with orcs in one-on-one combat.

    The average naked orc warrior would be equal to the average naked human warrior because they're equal in strength, but what the orc brings in terms of endurance, the human brings in terms of evasion.

  16. #16
    If all they were doing out on the battlefield was bare-knuckle boxing, then sure -- the orcs might win. But war is the great equalizer. How could the US forces have been forced to a stalemate/loss in the Vietnam War? Use of terrain, guerilla warfare, military tactics, etc.

  17. #17
    Orcs are bulkier but not necessarily physically stronger. Lore describing them from when they were hopped up on demon blood doesn't count to how strong they are naturally.

  18. #18
    Bullshit. There is no way an Orc is physically equal to a Human. Orcs are stronger.

  19. #19
    I think the MOP cinematic is a pretty good representation. Orcs are stronger, but humans fight smarter, and are generally better equip.

    Even so, WC 3 may have another explanation. If you throw a grunt and a footman against one another, the grunt will always win. But the grunt also takes up more resources. You could say it takes a lot more food for example to upkeep a battalion of orcs than it would for humans.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dald View Post
    Bullshit. There is no way an Orc is physically equal to a Human. Orcs are stronger.
    People of MMO-Champion! I present you this wonderfully and intricately thought out thesis on cryptozoology. It will explain everything about the Draenic Orc's physiology, and compare it equally and honestly to that of a human! In order to prove the Orc's physical superiority, I will explain at great length the Orc's muscle fibre structure, nutrient transportation efficiency and angular leverage of the skeleton and tendons, then also incorporate a long and windy explanation of the Orc's capacity to convert nutrients to energy!

    My argumentation is as follows:
    'Anyone who disagrees with me is stupid; I am right.'
    *bows*

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