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  1. #21
    It may or may not be. We should definitely try and see what results we get, but it's not guaranteed to be better.

    Same goes for Lei-Shen. While it might look great from eyeballing, it might end up not being that great with the low proc rate and duration.

    For the second trinket, with the stats given here, i'm going to have to say Cha-Ye is going to beat everything else to a pulp. It already gives over 100 int more than Wushoolay's, and that's without its own crit.

    So the only real question is Lei Shen or Wushoolay.

  2. #22
    Great work on getting this list up so fast! thanks x

  3. #23
    thanks for the list again <3 .

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Layuth's Avatar
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    I believe the Martin Fury trinket is for PvP.
    "If I recall correctly I just posted that this topic is not to be discussed any further." -Ensidia Fanclub Founder

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Layuth View Post
    I believe the Martin Fury trinket is for PvP.
    No no, it definitely has it's place in heroic raiding :P

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen is definitely going to be BiS with the latest news on Snapshot crit on Dots.
    Its still not that simple. What if you are outside of Eclipse when it procs, you then have to put up both uneclipsed versions. What if you literally just reapplied dots those GCDs get wasted. Maybe it will still be great but Im not really a fan of things that totally fuck up rotations.

  7. #27
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    So the only real question is Lei Shen or Wushoolay.
    It's not a question at all. Assuming it goes live how GC described the LFR version of the Lei Shen trinket will be miles better than anything. It really confuses me how people can't see how strong that is.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-16 at 01:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjabb View Post
    Its still not that simple. What if you are outside of Eclipse when it procs, you then have to put up both uneclipsed versions. What if you literally just reapplied dots those GCDs get wasted. Maybe it will still be great but Im not really a fan of things that totally fuck up rotations.
    Yes it is that simple. Non eclipsed Dots that crit for every tick > Eclipsed dots. Don't try to make it more confusing that it is. Make a weak aura, you see proc, you apply both dots.

    The goal will be to apply both dots immediately, hope for a SS proc immediately, and cast a guaranteed crit SS which will also extend the crit buffed dots.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-02-16 at 07:16 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    Yes it is that simple. Non eclipsed Dots that crit for every tick > Eclipsed dots. Don't try to make it more confusing that it is. Make a weak aura, you see proc, you apply both dots.

    The goal will be to apply both dots immediately, hope for a SS proc immediately, and cast a guaranteed crit SS which will also extend the crit buffed dots.
    Nobody is saying its not more beneficial than regular dots, its saying in a simulation/in game the DPS gain of it cannot be accurately predetermined because of factors like that and the randomness of when the proc will appear. The fact on whether it begins to outweigh the passive stats of other options is whats up in the air.

    So no... its not that simple.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    It's not a question at all. Assuming it goes live how GC described the LFR version of the Lei Shen trinket will be miles better than anything. It really confuses me how people can't see how strong that is.
    That's the problem. We don't actually know how strong it is, compared to the alternatives.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire
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    Even with the worst possible proc timing, you still will be able to get 15+ starsurges chained, pretty sure that alone will justify it.

  11. #31
    High Overlord zen0x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Even with the worst possible proc timing, you still will be able to get 15+ starsurges chained, pretty sure that alone will justify it.
    However, you will need to stand close to your target to reduce the flight time of SS to be able to use all those 15+ procs since the cooldown doesn't reset until the spell hits.
    "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Even with the worst possible proc timing, you still will be able to get 15+ starsurges chained, pretty sure that alone will justify it.
    Well you'll never get that many used, its possible you could get that many procs yet even still highly unlikely. Even with NG and enough haste just for that extra tick you'd get 12 ticks per dot for every 14.7 ish seconds, unextended. With a 30% chance on shooting stars thats means in an average scenario you will get 7 SS procs (24 ticks x 0.30 = 7.2). There's also a decent chance some of those procs will not get consumed on time making it less than normal, theres also a smaller chance that you get more than the average 7 consumed as well.

    You also have to take into account the crits you would've done anyways, times that NG will not be present, dot extensions, and so on. I am not arguing against using this trinket, only cautioning those who might think its by far and away the best choice without having hard evidence to back it up against the other choices available.

  13. #33
    Can you equip both of the rings? They both say the same thing that you can only have 1 Curios of the Golden Lotus equipped at a time.

  14. #34
    Hey guys.
    Maybe someone of you can tell me how often will this trinket proc?
    All I could find is:

    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.
    And I have no idea what does it mean.

  15. #35
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alzu View Post
    Can you equip both of the rings? They both say the same thing that you can only have 1 Curios of the Golden Lotus equipped at a time.
    It might be an old tooltip reading, but I wrote in a post on the first page that I'll swap one of the rings out if the next best option if it's true.

    -----------------------

    A little insight into the Unerring trinket: to approximate what we gain from putting up dots with 100% crit, we have two equations that feed each other, namely number of starsurge procs and number of ticks.


    • SS procs = 0.3*(ticks per dot)*2
    • ticks per dot = (base amount of ticks w/ or w/o NG)+(SS procs)*2*(crit chance)/(tick rate)

    Subbing in values from WrathCalcs in the current BiS list setup (obviously these will change once we put in the real trinkets and fiddle around, but this is good enough for a first approximation), we have: base amount of ticks = 10.58 (with NG), 9.34 (without NG), crit chance = 50.69% (SS 2pc & 4pc T15 with NG), 49.02% (SS 2pc, no NG), tick rate = 1.326309253 (with NG), 1.52525564 (without NG). Therefore:


    • SS procs = 0.3*(10.58+(SS procs)*2*0.5069/1.326309253)*2
    • ticks per dot = 10.58+0.3*(ticks per dot)*2*2*0.5069/1.326309253

    Solving for each variable, we find that SS procs approaches 11.73, while ticks per dot approaches 19.54 (25.9 second dot length). Conversely, for non-NG'd dots:


    • SS procs = 0.3*(9.34+(SS procs)*2*0.4902/1.52525564)*2
    • ticks per dot = 9.34+0.3*(ticks per dot)*2*2*0.4902/1.52525564

    This time, we find SS procs approaching 9.12 and ticks per dot approaching 15.20 (23.19 second dot length).

    So you can see there is quite a big difference between NG'd 100% crit dots and non-NG'd. This is largely because of the tick rate decrease, as well as the T15 4pc bonus of 1000 crit. T15 2pc does give starsurge an additional 10% chance to crit, and makes a big difference with extending the 100% crit dots. This means that, instead of normal, 14 second dot lengths, we can push it up to an average of 23-25 seconds, depending on NG. Since we do a complete cycle (in T15H BiS gear) in under 30 seconds single-target, and NG lasts 15 seconds, for pure single-target fights we should have NG up 100% of the time. Obviously, this is just a best-case scenario, and movement/wasting GCDs will make NG uptime go below 100%. However, most of the time NG should be up when the trinket procs.

    To see how this trinket really fares, we will need to wait until accurate modelling can be done. This is just a short approximation to show how many SS procs you should get during the 100% crit dot uptime, how long your dots should be extended by, and what to expect if your NG isn't up.

    If you think I screwed up some of the maths, let me know. Doing marginal changes in WrathCalcs seems to follow these equations pretty well. Again, depending on your actual crit % during the uptime of these dots, your amount of SS procs will fluctuate, and thus the extention of the dots as well. This is just what you should see on average.
    Last edited by Slippykins; 2013-02-16 at 11:28 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zahri View Post
    And I have no idea what does it mean.
    Dude, first page..... http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...on-of-Lei-Shen

  17. #37
    have you tried using int gems at all considering it scales with hotw talent?
    Last edited by crunk; 2013-02-17 at 12:36 AM.

  18. #38
    Moderator Slippykins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    have you tried using int gems at all considering it scales with hotw talent?
    Marginal change (+1) to int is a 5.53 DPS increase, whereas a marginal change to crit is 3.22 (2x crit = 6.44). This is quite a big gap, and even with HotW (which is what I'm using baseline) int can't compare in a gem scenario.

  19. #39
    It seems like the Resto robes make a pretty solid pre Ra-den off-set alternative. haste/crit replacing hit/mastery.

  20. #40
    Blademaster GrifCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babuka View Post
    However, you will need to stand close to your target to reduce the flight time of SS to be able to use all those 15+ procs since the cooldown doesn't reset until the spell hits.
    I'm not sure thats totally correct. From my experience, If you get a Shooting Stars proc while hardcasting a SS then you have to wait until it lands to use the proc. Alternatively, if Shooting Stars procs while a previous SS is already in mid-flight, you can use the proc immediately, making back to back SSs possible without penalty for flight time.

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