Required DPS/Damage for HoF & ToES normal

[Angarin]

I just see these people wanting 480+ ilevel all the time when I can usually do approximately the amount of dps an approximate 480 lock does.

Just some rough numbers. I know not all fights are the same, so if anybody has numbers for specific fights.

I'm assuming for the early part of HoF 50k is required, and for the first fight or 2 of ToES 55-60k is required. This is from each dps, tanks are roughly half unless your a dk or brewmaster.

These assumptions are based on math I've done. No, I know they're not 100% correct but they're close I'm sure.

[Radio]

Those numbers should be good for all fights without caveats except for Garalon, Tsulong and Sha of Fear.

Garalon can be done with that level of DPS performance but it has to be done correctly, so making sure that you have a reasonable lineup and that you only allow your best leg classes to touch the legs and give them as much uptime as possible.

Tsulong can have a tight enrage timer with that level of DPS depending on how well your healers are progressing in the 2 day phases, more DPS means less healer burden and more heals means less DPS burden.

For Sha, overall DPS doesn't matter too much when it comes to the enrage, but your players need to be able to burst effectively during the panda platforms while also handling orbs. When we (fairly casual 2 night guild) first came up to Sha our main problems were with late panda platforms, though we did once hit the enrage timer (fairly horrible attempt across the board).

[Sesshou]

If by required you mean absolute minimum to kill the bosses before enrage, if you say you did the math and its only 55-60k, ok great. If by minimum you mean the minimum required to have a smooth run, then 55-60k is not it. 55-60k is incredibly low even if you are just rocking full LFR MSV 476 stuff. If the healers and tanks play at the same level as a 55-60k dps, you will certainly have a rocky ride. I'm honestly shocked you could beat something like blade lord even on normal with people pulling 50k which you suggest is the minimum for early HoF, and if your healers are putting out just as proportionally low healing, I can't see how you would even survive p2.

[Deleted]

So if you are just doing it using maths, i guess you didn't include stuff like target switches, downtime on boss due to encounter mechanics etc, as the poster above said, it's a bit low and maybe you may get away with it, but on bosses with tight enrages unless everything goes perfectly i could see it being a night of many wipes with everyone at that level of dps

[Viggers]

unfortunatley, early HoF includes garalon. so your gonna be wanting more dps than that. i would say for comfortable progression you want 60k+ from everyone.

and given that warlocks are close to the highest dps spec out there, are you sure that you can do the same dps as a better geared one? not saying you cant but... it would take some exceptional play for a monk or shaman to keep up with a well played and better geared warlock

[PBitt]

If everyone in the raid is doing 55-60k dps per se, you're going to have a bad time in HoF. I suppose that's doable for the first two bosses, particularly if your healers are good, but Garalon will be your undoing, my guild had to do it with just two players doing 50k dps in a pretty high ilvl which the rest of the dps all had to do 90k or more to carry them, and though we three healed it, our first two kills both occured pretty much during the enrage. A 480 of any class should be doing something like 70k at the *very* least, it really depends on which fight you're talking about. On a fight like Vizier, I would say a good lock should pull around 80k anyways on Vizier with ilvl 480. Unfortunately my own 10 man guild, which is working on H Will, has three dps (though only 2 are ever in at a time) in 495 ilvl stuff that can't pull 60k sustained on a single non-gimmick fight, and I certainly wish I was trolling.

[AgilityTank]

If by required you mean absolute minimum to kill the bosses before enrage, if you say you did the math and its only 55-60k, ok great. If by minimum you mean the minimum required to have a smooth run, then 55-60k is not it. 55-60k is incredibly low even if you are just rocking full LFR MSV 476 stuff. If the healers and tanks play at the same level as a 55-60k dps, you will certainly have a rocky ride. I'm honestly shocked you could beat something like blade lord even on normal with people pulling 50k which you suggest is the minimum for early HoF, and if your healers are putting out just as proportionally low healing, I can't see how you would even survive p2.

I think what he's doing is trying to justify the fact that he's getting turned down for raids but the thing is, plenty of pug and guild groups are wiping on normals in 490~ gear. Most groups won't take someone sub 480 to their raid based on the (lack of) effort that the person has put in.

[Radio]

If everyone in the raid is doing 55-60k dps per se, you're going to have a bad time in HoF. I suppose that's doable for the first two bosses, particularly if your healers are good, but Garalon will be your undoing, my guild had to do it with just two players doing 50k dps in a pretty high ilvl which the rest of the dps all had to do 90k or more to carry them, and though we three healed it, our first two kills both occured pretty much during the enrage. A 480 of any class should be doing something like 70k at the *very* least, it really depends on which fight you're talking about. On a fight like Vizier, I would say a good lock should pull around 80k anyways on Vizier with ilvl 480. Unfortunately my own 10 man guild, which is working on H Will, has three dps in 495 ilvl stuff that can't pull 60k sustained, and I certainly wish I was trolling.

Clearly the 50-60k quote refers to standard single target, most classes are capable of jumping up quite a bit based on encounter.

[asharia]

if all your dps are doing 60k on garalon, you won't beat the enrage

[PBitt]

Clearly the 50-60k quote refers to standard single target, most classes are capable of jumping up quite a bit based on encounter.

If all your dps are pulling 60k on single target with an ilvl of 480 (in which you should be doing more like 75 anyways), their dps is not going to go up on Garalon unless they are on legs the whole time. If they can't play their class while attacking one target, they sure as hell aren't going to know how to efficiently multi-dot. Unless you get someone to unlock ToES for you, you can't do anything but kill the first 2 bosses in HoF if you don't get passed Garalon, so I"m not quite sure what you're trying to say. To be more clear, in the hypothetical situation that every dps in the raid are doing exactly 60k, I'm not even sure if they could beat any enrage timers from anything outside of MSV if they 2 heal, and there is no way in hell they will if they 3 heal it.

The OP is looking to apply to a guild still progressing on normal content from what I saw in another thread, hence why I'm assuming there are some serious L2P issues in the guilds he's looking at, and he's simply looking to apply to one. If he's only pulling 55 to 60k, regardless of his ilvl, then I can see why they wouldn't want to recruit him because that's the bare minimum and it's not going to help them get anywhere. I don't know if that's what he's pulling, I'm simply trying to answer the OP's question. If the entire raid is pulling only 60 or even 65k at max, then that is why they aren't killing shit. It's not enough to clear all normal content.

[Radio]

If all your dps are pulling 60k on single target with an ilvl of 480 (in which you should be doing more like 75 anyways), their dps is not going to go up on Garalon unless they are on legs the whole time. If they can't play their class while attacking one target, they sure as hell aren't going to know how to efficiently multi-dot. Unless you get someone to unlock ToES for you, you can't do anything but kill the first 2 bosses in HoF if you don't get passed Garalon, so I"m not quite sure what you're trying to say. To be more clear, in the hypothetical situation that every dps in the raid are doing exactly 60k, I'm not even sure if they could beat any enrage timers from anything outside of MSV if they 2 heal, and there is no way in hell they will if they 3 heal it.

60k unmodified sustained DPS per DPS player is perfectly capable of beating most enrage timers in normal. The problem is that, assuming that you enter HoF with the assumed correct gear level of 480, doing 60k would imply that your players are underperforming skill-wise and are likely also dying to mechanics regularly, so that already tight enrage timer is now unattainable.

But, if you chucked a group of players that have farmed normals and/or heroics on their mains till their fingers have bled on 465-ish alts doing only 60k unmodified sustained single target due to gear level they will likely be able to clear everything except for maybe sha or garalon without too much of an issue.

Gear above that 465ish level simply increases the amount of poor play you have room for in normal modes without hitting enrage.


Saw your edit after my post:

The OP is looking to apply to a guild still progressing on normal content from what I saw in another thread, hence why I'm assuming there are some serious L2P issues in the guilds he's looking at, and he's simply looking to apply to one. If he's only pulling 55 to 60k, regardless of his ilvl, then I can see why they wouldn't want to recruit him because that's the bare minimum and it's not going to help them get anywhere. I don't know if that's what he's pulling, I'm simply trying to answer the OP's question. If the entire raid is pulling only 60 or even 65k at max, then that is why they aren't killing shit. It's not enough.

I agree with you on this point, a guild of appropriately geared players (480ish) doing that much DPS wouldn't be an ideal place to join, neither would I want to recruit an appropriately geared player doing that much DPS.

[Angarin]

The OP is looking to apply to a guild still progressing on normal content from what I saw in another thread, hence why I'm assuming there are some serious L2P issues in the guilds he's looking at, and he's simply looking to apply to one. If he's only pulling 55 to 60k, regardless of his ilvl, then I can see why they wouldn't want to recruit him because that's the bare minimum and it's not going to help them get anywhere. I don't know if that's what he's pulling, I'm simply trying to answer the OP's question. If the entire raid is pulling only 60 or even 65k at max, then that is why they aren't killing shit. It's not enough to clear all normal content.

No where in my other thread did I say I was applying for a guild. My last post in that thread I cleared up the issue in "favoritism", I wasn't pleased but I can't hate them for their choices.

But no I'm not looking to apply to a guild, I was told I couldn't join progression raids til I can pull at least 70k. Still frustrates me when theres people pulling 55-65k but whatever.

Which is why I made this thread, to find out if they're trying to literally screw me over by wasting my time or if its a real benchmark to aim for.

[Volbian]

I just see these people wanting 480+ ilevel all the time when I can usually do approximately the amount of dps an approximate 480 lock does.

^ This was the best laugh i had in along time.

If you were beating a lock....They were really bad or Demo spec. No way is a Lock doing 50-60K, in ilvl 480 gear, especially as Aff/Destro.

[Radio]

^ This was the best laugh i had in along time.

If you were beating a lock....They were really bad or Demo spec. No way is a Lock doing 50-60K, in ilvl 480 gear, especially as Aff/Destro.

You'd be surprised...

[Volbian]

You'd be surprised...

I'm not, thats why the sentence b4 that read. "They were really bad or Demo spec".

[NeverStop]

I pulled 55k dps with my 465 ilvl hunter in a HoF pug. We full cleared the instance and 1-shot Garalon.

[Caliph]

If everyone in the raid is doing 55-60k dps per se, you're going to have a bad time in HoF. I suppose that's doable for the first two bosses, particularly if your healers are good, but Garalon will be your undoing, my guild had to do it with just two players doing 50k dps in a pretty high ilvl which the rest of the dps all had to do 90k or more to carry them, and though we three healed it, our first two kills both occured pretty much during the enrage. A 480 of any class should be doing something like 70k at the *very* least, it really depends on which fight you're talking about. On a fight like Vizier, I would say a good lock should pull around 80k anyways on Vizier with ilvl 480. Unfortunately my own 10 man guild, which is working on H Will, has three dps (though only 2 are ever in at a time) in 495 ilvl stuff that can't pull 60k sustained on a single non-gimmick fight, and I certainly wish I was trolling.

i'm a 485 afflock adn just got affdots addon. still playing around with it but to pull those numbers on vizier single target you would need a lot of procs or things to happen. maybe on garalon because of the multidotting and redotting with more powerful dots during procs and such but not on vizier. 70k is right but 80k? yes i'm bad or not great however you want to look at it, but i know right now i can't do that.

yeah i'm bad. oh well, have to practice a little more eh.

[asharia]

I pulled 55k dps with my 465 ilvl hunter in a HoF pug. We full cleared the instance and 1-shot Garalon.

YOU did.

The raid didn't.

They did more than was required to make up for you.

[TwentyTwelve]

Honestly you could clear HoF no matter what ur Ilvl is, if everyone is on the same level of `skill`... I get annoyed with how people abuse Ilvl now, it's like the old Gearscore system...

for HoF i'd say if you pull 60k on first boss, you're good to clear the rest. Garalon needs more but of course that should be easy, first boss has downtime of platform movement, not to mention you get the leg buff on garalon. From Garalon it should be free loot with everyone doing tacts rig

[Angarin]

YOU did.

The raid didn't.

They did more than was required to make up for you.

It was lfr, you could basically smash your face on the keyboard & bind every slot available to one ability and still make it through unless you were a tank or healer.

Last I checked there were no enrage timers