1. #1

    Prot Paladin stacking strength

    So i saw the changes on grand crusader with dodge/parry... cool..so.

    The way i see it
    1000 STR = 872 parry + 2000 attack power + 1000 spell power (+5% from kings)
    and i wanted to comapre it to 1000 haste or 1000 mastery.

    Would it be worth gemmed STR > Haste > mastery?

    STR still feels like a tank stat since it increases parry by a good amount, makes your battle healer hits heal more for the raid, and increases your self heals like SS, WoG, and holy prism, not to mention increasing your chances from the increased parry to proc GC, and it also works while you are not actively tanking to deal that extra damage.

    Currently on 5.2 PTR -LFR i do 93k dps and 50k hps, and was wondering if anyone has tried a full build of gemming str with actual haste gear on and better trinkets than vial of dragon blood + a 471 trinket. I'm obviously tanking just fine in terms of survival so just wanting to do more.
    Last edited by zanderken3; 2013-02-18 at 09:47 AM.

  2. #2
    No.

    Possibly for leveling and soloing, daily questing, but not raiding.

    Ofc depending on what you are doing since while leveling secondary stats scale extremely well and for soloing depends on what you are soloing.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-18 at 09:51 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Texas(I wish it were CO)
    Posts
    3,105
    You need to compare it to 2k haste or mastery, primary stat gems are only half that of secondary stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    You need to compare it to 2k haste or mastery, primary stat gems are only half that of secondary stats.
    that is a good point that i should think about, i was only thinking about trinkets like 489 Vial of Dragon's blood with 1079 mastery and Jade Chariot figurine with 1079 STR (maybe the proc is different) but i'll do more research i guess for every chance of choosing between even numbers

    until i can switch it up on a greater scale i guess i would ask

    is
    139.52 parry + 320 attack power + 160 spell power Better Than 320 haste ??
    without including 5% more STR from kings.
    Last edited by zanderken3; 2013-02-18 at 09:54 AM.

  5. #5
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Solihull, UK
    Posts
    1,330
    The vast majority of our AP comes from vengeance (taking damage) and strength just really can't compete with that. Stacking haste would have a much bigger impact on our dps/ survivability as we get to hit quicker and generate HP faster (more SotR). Strength isn't a great stat for us compared to the alternatives.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    The vast majority of our AP comes from vengeance (taking damage) and strength just really can't compete with that. Stacking haste would have a much bigger impact on our dps/ survivability as we get to hit quicker and generate HP faster (more SotR). Strength isn't a great stat for us compared to the alternatives.
    this was kind of the answer i was looking for...AWSOME.... based on that, if i want to up my offense without giving up too much survivalbility... can i go via
    Haste > STR > mastery... just not gemming strength I.E. >> trinket off last boss in MSV or Lei shi in terrace??

    and with ilvl 522 gear in the future, i am worried that i'll be clicking judgement/crusader strike/AV shield so much.. that i wont ever get to use any of my other cd's because i'll be too busy to give up a global and making haste feel like some of it is being wasted (prot pally haste soft cap comming soon?? lol?)

    Spells that may then get neglected.

    Tier lvl 90 talents
    Hand of purity
    Holy Wrath
    Consecrate
    ... and anything i missed that is worth using mid fight.
    Last edited by zanderken3; 2013-02-18 at 10:11 AM.

  7. #7
    Theck has crunched out the stat weights for our dps in this thread:

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=32805

  8. #8
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Solihull, UK
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Theck has crunched out the stat weights for our dps in this thread:

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...hp?f=6&t=32805
    Extract below:

    TLDR summary:
    Hit (to 7.5%) and Expertise (to 7.5%) are generally our best DPS stats (in that order) at reasonable Vengeance levels.
    At very low Vengeance, they will fall behind Strength and AP.
    At high Vengeance levels (~150k), haste is our third best stat, followed by expertise (from 7.5% to 15%), crit, strength, and AP.
    At lower Vengeance levels (~75k), haste, strength and AP are about equal, with expertise (from 7.5% to 15%) trailing them slightly, crit falling to sixth place and crit trailing it significantly.
    Agility and intellect are both very weak DPS stats at all Vengeance levels. Avoid them. Remember that since secondary stats on gems are doubled, secondary stats are always the right DPS choice on gems.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by rawhammer View Post
    The vast majority of our AP comes from vengeance (taking damage) and strength just really can't compete with that. Stacking haste would have a much bigger impact on our dps/ survivability as we get to hit quicker and generate HP faster (more SotR). Strength isn't a great stat for us compared to the alternatives.

    This is the key point. What content are you mainly running. Tank dps without vengeance is pathetic, and in those situations str probably does pretty well. As soon as you start taking damage and vengeance is in the tens of thousands, then hit, expertise and haste will all top str both for dps and for survivability.

  10. #10
    Banned rawhammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Solihull, UK
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by zanderken3 View Post
    this was kind of the answer i was looking for...AWSOME.... based on that, if i want to up my offense without giving up too much survivalbility... can i go via
    Haste > STR > mastery... just not gemming strength I.E. >> trinket off last boss in MSV or Lei shi in terrace??

    and with ilvl 522 gear in the future, i am worried that i'll be clicking judgement/crusader strike/AV shield so much.. that i wont ever get to use any of my other cd's because i'll be too busy to give up a global and making haste feel like some of it is being wasted (prot pally haste soft cap comming soon?? lol?)

    Spells that may then get neglected.

    Tier lvl 90 talents
    Hand of purity
    Holy Wrath
    Consecrate
    ... and anything i missed that is worth using mid fight.
    Well kinda, just forget strength as something to look for in gear. At raid levels of vengeance it doesn't do much. The trinket is sought for its haste rather then the strength component.

    Sanctity of battle reduces the gcd from abilities via haste, so clipping abilities isn't such an issue (though some abilities still don't get affected by it e:g. Lv 90 talents, SitE), but no haste soft capping isn't an issue for the foreseeable.

    Also phone dying....

  11. #11
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    39
    In MoP, the stat budget on gems has changed slightly. Instead of the itemization ratio seen here, we get twice as much of a secondary stat as we should (example: Bold Primordial Ruby vs. Precise Primordial Ruby). This analysis has used the usual itemization budgeting that you'll get on gear pieces, which means that for gemming, you need to double the value of any secondary stats. In a practical sense, this means that expertise, hit, and haste will almost always be the high-DPS choice for gems. Strength simply can't compete with the factor of 2 itemization benefit on gems. Since we're not likely to get enough haste to reach any sort of serious cap, we can always stuff a haste gem into a slot for more DPS than a STR gem (socket bonuses nonwithstanding, but even there, a STR/Haste or pure haste gem will be superior to pure STR).

    TLDR summary:

    Hit (to 7.5%) and Expertise (to 7.5%) are generally our best DPS stats (in that order) at reasonable Vengeance levels. At very low Vengeance, they will fall behind Strength and AP.
    At high Vengeance levels (~150k), haste is our third best stat, followed by expertise (from 7.5% to 15%), crit, strength, and AP.
    At lower Vengeance levels (~75k), haste, strength and AP are about equal, with expertise (from 7.5% to 15%) trailing them slightly, crit falling to sixth place and crit trailing it significantly.

    Taken from thecks thread, but as u see for dmg output strenght is nowhere near secondary stats with high vengeance.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •