[Mage] 5.2 PTR Discussion (based on Feb 19 notes)

[Keiyra]

Nyeh. Still not worth my global when I have TS

IB is definitely better for Normals. TS is so live-saving with all the one-shot attacks of Heroic.

You do realize the irony of that last line - since one shots are the one situation where TS wont help you (since you need to survive the hit, to benefit from the healing from TS)

- the exception being a one shot with TS when you also have Cauterize available which is a fun combo...but that's more about the Cauterize than the TS helping with the one shot. TS+Caut is great for 1 shots. TS by itself...not so good :P

[Deleted]

You do realize the irony of that last line - since one shots are the one situation where TS wont help you (since you need to survive the hit, to benefit from the healing from TS)

- the exception being a one shot with TS when you also have Cauterize available which is a fun combo...but that's more about the Cauterize than the TS helping with the one shot. TS+Caut is great for 1 shots. TS by itself...not so good :P

He probably meant "one shot" as in one ability getting you to very low HP. There's nothing in heroic modes that can one shot you that's not avoidable in some way.

[royals]

The strikes, in the aforementioned example have a chance to one shot us in our ten man on heroic, with only one priest and just DK' for helping dispel quickness can stack on us a little before the first set of adds die. I find Greater Invis amazing for the strike along with IB and a disc bubble and I never die. Cauterize can only save you once and if you ICeblock the cauterize dot off you may as well have ice blocked the strike. If there is a true "one shot" mechanic, GI>Cauterize every time, especially since there is a limit to cauterize's absorbable damage where GI is a flat percent.

[Empath]

The strikes, in the aforementioned example have a chance to one shot us in our ten man on heroic, with only one priest and just DK' for helping dispel quickness can stack on us a little before the first set of adds die. I find Greater Invis amazing for the strike along with IB and a disc bubble and I never die. Cauterize can only save you once and if you ICeblock the cauterize dot off you may as well have ice blocked the strike. If there is a true "one shot" mechanic, GI>Cauterize every time, especially since there is a limit to cauterize's absorbable damage where GI is a flat percent.

Agree. There have been a few times in my 10man on heroic windlord where I used ice barrier for the strike and STILL got cauterize proc'd. lol

[Shangalar]

Just use Greater Invisibility for the Korthik Strike, you take practically zero damage.

[Polarthief]

He probably meant "one shot" as in one ability getting you to very low HP. There's nothing in heroic modes that can one shot you that's not avoidable in some way.

Pretty much this is what I meant.

Anything that I'm not intended to get hit by will kill me, even with Cauterize and Ice Barrier.

The "one-shot" mechanics is stuff like Kor'thik Strike.

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 03:39 PM ----------

Just use Greater Invisibility for the Korthik Strike, you take practically zero damage.

It kinda depends on your comp. We're rolling with 4+ dispellers, so we have everyone assigned to a Blademaster so we never have them with stacks.

For the record, people can dispel Magic buffs if they are:

- Priest (Mass Dispel available!)
- Shaman (x2 glyphable)
- Mage (Spellsteal eats mana like candy >.>)
- Hunter (Glyphable to remove the cost)
- Prot Warrior (if you glyph Shield Slam)
*- Death Knight (Glyphed Icy Touch)
*- Warlock (If you use a Felhunter/Observer)

* Thanks for reminding me, Kuni! I knew I forgot a few!

[Kuni Zyrekai]

DKs with glyphed icy touch, and warlocks with felpuppies as well.

[Taiknee]

I feel like the change to Glyphed Evo with the Invocation talent is too much a nerf. At 10%, in PvP it will only heal for 7% HP at the end of a 3 second cast when factoring in battle fatigue, and only 3.5% when counting MS effects - where other classes get similar effects instantly but on a short CD. If it's going to heal this low, and still requires a Major Glyph slot to benefit from it, it really needs to be a HoT-channel (think of an individual, nerfed version of Tranquility).

Flameglow also looks interesting...

[zomgDPS]

Flameglow also looks interesting...

How, exactly, do you find it 'interesting'?

[mrgreenthump]

How, exactly, do you find it 'interesting'?

I find it interesting that something has been made so underpowered..

[Polarthief]

I feel like the change to Glyphed Evo with the Invocation talent is too much a nerf. At 10%, in PvP it will only heal for 7% HP at the end of a 3 second cast when factoring in battle fatigue, and only 3.5% when counting MS effects - where other classes get similar effects instantly but on a short CD. If it's going to heal this low, and still requires a Major Glyph slot to benefit from it, it really needs to be a HoT-channel (think of an individual, nerfed version of Tranquility).

Flameglow also looks interesting...

Yeah, it's garbage. 10% in PvE isn't worth a Major slot, granted, most of our Majors are awful anyways.

If by interesting you mean interestingly terrible, then sure. Besides against DoT classes in PvP, I see no other use for it as is. The SP coefficient is simply way too low. Nerf the cap to 20% and increase the SP coeff higher and it'll be worth looking into.

[Taiknee]

Based on a rough sim vs. a 45% PvP Power sub rogue in an avg. item level of 488 pvp gear, it looks like Flameglow equates to about 20k extra real HP @ 65% resilience. For this talent to be comparable to the other talents in this tier it really needs to be somewhere around ~50% SP instead of the 20% it is currently..

[Polarthief]

Based on a rough sim vs. a 45% PvP Power sub rogue in an avg. item level of 488 pvp gear, it looks like Flameglow equates to about 20k extra real HP @ 65% resilience. For this talent to be comparable to the other talents in this tier it really needs to be somewhere around ~50% SP instead of the 20% it is currently..

Exactly. Still keeping it capped at 30% though will make it not too powerful.

Hell if you want, cap it at 20% so it's on par with other classes passive, untalented, damage reductions. The SP coefficient needs to be higher to be worth it. (Not just in PvP; PvE even moreso though, because it's garbage atm).

Also, Taiknee, I love your avatar XD

"There's a toll in the hall now!"

---------- Post added 2013-02-20 at 11:11 PM ----------

Just use Greater Invisibility for the Korthik Strike, you take practically zero damage.

Now that I think about it, wouldn't G Invis actually make you take, literally, 0 damage?

Ice Blocking makes them ignore you (not strike for 0 damage; they literally will lose interest in you if you Ice Block because of the debuff). I'd assume G Invis would too because you're not there.

[jtmzac]

Yeah, it's garbage. 10% in PvE isn't worth a Major slot, granted, most of our Majors are awful anyways.

At least now frost won't ever need to change glyphs. And no more re-casting frost armor!

Arcane can just use CoC or Slow.

[Polarthief]

At least now frost won't ever need to change glyphs. And no more re-casting frost armor!

Arcane can just use CoC or Slow.

IL, IV, Have fun finding a third, shitty, glyph. Yaaaaaaaay.

Fire's kinda in the same boat. Comb is a duh, IB on AoE fights, Armors on any fight that has AoE physical damage (like... ALL of HoF; AS only if you get flung onto). I can't really think of what other glyph to use.

I'd probably use Evo just because we don't really have any other glyphs, or I'll just leave on IB and Armors at all times.

[jtmzac]

You forgot glyph of water elemental. Considering how big some of the fight area's are I'm glad I can always have a mobile water elemental.

I'm fine swapping glyphs but it shouldn't remove your armor unless you actually add or remove the glyph of armors.

[Polarthief]

You forgot glyph of water elemental. Considering how big some of the fight area's are I'm glad I can always have a mobile water elemental.

I'm fine swapping glyphs but it shouldn't remove your armor unless you actually add or remove the glyph of armors.

I'm actually not going to use WE glyph. The giant size is just too annoying to bother with. Plus, now that I won't be freezing shit, I'll just let him do his own thing.

Also keep in mind, depending on the fight, WE glyph can be a LOSS of DPS because he doesn't attack until you do first during movement (because they can't learn how to code him properly)

Edit: Meant to say glyph, not WE altogether XD

[Viridis]

Based on a rough sim vs. a 45% PvP Power sub rogue in an avg. item level of 488 pvp gear, it looks like Flameglow equates to about 20k extra real HP @ 65% resilience. For this talent to be comparable to the other talents in this tier it really needs to be somewhere around ~50% SP instead of the 20% it is currently..

You don't take Flameglow for a 1v1 duel against a sub rogue. Actually you don't take Flameglow for a 1v1 duel against anyone. Cooking up the math and putting it into this situation and then exclaiming "this is bad, buff plox" makes no sense.

What you could do, is take Flameglow for a 3v3 game against say a shadowplay comp. Say the match lasts 5 minutes, have alook at all the dot damage you've taken during that time, and do some math to see if its still bad. Factor in your IB getting dispelled atleast 1 out of every 2 casts, and perhaps it's not looking so shabby anymore. A well timed IB right before someone bursts you may still be better, but the odds of it being dispelled are high (if the opposing team plays well, they will clean you of all your magic buffs right before bursting you anyway). Against anything with a shaman on the team Flameglow might turn out to be damn good. Those bastards will purge you clean constantly, and it doesn't even help covering your shield with Slow Fall.

I think it looks like a situationally good talent. Perhaps not so much for PvE as for PvP, but then we have IB and TS to pick up if Flameglow will be sub par. If Flameglow is buffed too much, it'll just turn into a Shadow Priest -15% damage taken thing, and will be mandatory for all raiding. I'm fairly certain that's not what they're looking to do.

[Deleted]

For mage's spealsteal, I always forget that it's only dispel beneficial magic on hostile target.
For We's dps on movement with the glyph, it will only attack your target that attack first.
It's not a problem with the glyph but it's the way "assist mode" is working.

I have macro "/petattack" to my frostbolt so even if I don't cast FB (because I move), Mr.Bubble will attack the target. If you keep a bomb on your target, WE will attack it.

I can't see why the Glyph is a problem here.
Without it, WE cast then move then cast then move.
With it, WE cast and move. You gain the movement duration.

[Polarthief]

What you could do, is take Flameglow for a 3v3 game against say a shadowplay comp.

Excuse me for being ignorant as I haven't done Arena in years, but how would you know what your opponents are until it's too late to swap?

If your enemy has no DoT users, it's a worthless talent and you won't be able to swap until your next game.

---------- Post added 2013-02-21 at 08:41 AM ----------

For mage's spealsteal, I always forget that it's only dispel beneficial magic on hostile target.
For We's dps on movement with the glyph, it will only attack your target that attack first.
It's not a problem with the glyph but it's the way "assist mode" is working.

I have macro "/petattack" to my frostbolt so even if I don't cast FB (because I move), Mr.Bubble will attack the target. If you keep a bomb on your target, WE will attack it.

I can't see why the Glyph is a problem here.
Without it, WE cast then move then cast then move.
With it, WE cast and move. You gain the movement duration.

Regardless if it's a DPS gain in SOME bosses (and a very VERY small one at that), I still refuse to take it because it makes him huge. It's too annoying to use.

If only they made a Minor glyph to remove that part...