Thread: 5.2 tuning pass

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  1. #141

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Just makes up for the rppm nerf.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Just makes up for the rppm nerf.
    I'm not sure the the rppm nerf was worth ~8.3% dps though.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Just makes up for the rppm nerf.
    Really? Why it's exclusive for assassination then?

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Really? Why it's exclusive for assassination then?
    Well Combat was a good ~7-9% ahead of Assassination with the tier 15 four piece bonus.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    Really? Why it's exclusive for assassination then?
    Combat dps was way to high before because of the t15 4piece. And sub is hard to say whats going on there as sub had more than double the loss of assassination from this rppm nerf but got no buffs.
    Last edited by wow; 2013-03-05 at 05:22 AM.

  7. #147
    /waves goodbye to Sub PvE

    (unless our sims are doing a terrible job or they buff Sub next.)

    Updating OP. Assassination sounds like it'll be close to combat for single target sustained, as seems to be intended.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Combat dps was way to high before because of the t15 4piece. And sub hard is to say whats going on there as sub had more than double the loss of assassination from this rppm nerf but got no buffs.
    You either saying that combat is not hurt by RPPM nerf, or assassin's resolve buff is unrelated to it. Which is the case.

    In case no1 noticed that line:
    - Proc rate multiplied by 0.1 for non-melee specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.25 against player controlled units. Proc rate multiplied by 1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15) for the various Item Level versions of the trinket.
    Napkin math for heroic and heroic thunderforged trinkets:
    - Bad Juju - 0.534 and 0.565
    - Rune of Re-Origination - 0.982 and 1,039
    - Talisman of Bloodlust – 3.2 and 3,39
    - Renataki’s Soul Charm – 0,598 and 0,632

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    You either saying that combat is not hurt by RPPM nerf, or assassin's resolve buff is unrelated to it. Which is the case.
    Combat was hurt by it was just that much higher than assassin and sub. The assassin buff should put it inline with nerfed t15 combat. Unless sub is buffed it will be more of a dead pve spec than now.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    Combat was hurt by it was just that much higher than assassin and sub. The assassin buff should put it inline with nerfed t15 combat. Unless sub is buffed it will be more of a dead pve spec than now.
    You can't stay behind Tortos (and it's really AoE fight, at least for heroic)
    You can't stay behind Maegara's heads.
    You can't stay behind Jin'rokh all the time (on heroic)
    Goold luck with backstab and ambush During Durumu's Disintegration Beam (plus one of color beams can be targeting you and YOU have to seek the "eyes"
    Horridon is pretty much 3-4 targets fight

    Heck, it's easier to say which fights are "ok" for sub. Iron Qon, Twin Consorts. Hmm, that's all.
    So yeah, sub is dead.
    Last edited by Mazius; 2013-03-05 at 05:50 AM.

  11. #151
    I find the assassin's resolve buff alarming. Assassination is already well ahead of combat without the T15 4-pc, if it's to balance the two specs with 4-set, how is that going to help anyone who is having bad luck with daggers when gearing up?

    Combat needs to be brought in line without needing an absurdly overpowered set bonus.

  12. #152
    I agree. I honestly think that the four piece needs an entire redesign, and combat could use a modest buff.

  13. #153
    Worst tier balancing ever to me. An inane OP set bonus for a single spec, and to balance things they buff/nerf passive coefficients so final numbers even out.

    Not mentioning the fact that one spec is still unusable in a raid enviroment or is clearly behind in terms of effectiveness.

  14. #154
    I thought we could use a bone after the SnD rppm nerf, but to only buff assassination and by that much... probably crapped on my plan to go combat tomorrow.

  15. #155
    I wanted to go assa/sub, and probably will still do. Sub for dailies/solo/fun time, assa for raiding.

    Tbh, it's very likely i'll switch my main to a warrior since my guild needs it - i count to raid casually with the rogue. Sounds sad, but we have like 3 rogues in a 10man roster XD

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Worst tier balancing ever to me. An inane OP set bonus for a single spec, and to balance things they buff/nerf passive coefficients so final numbers even out.

    Not mentioning the fact that one spec is still unusable in a raid enviroment or is clearly behind in terms of effectiveness.
    Agreed. They could have just changed the set bonuses to something that works well for all specs, but of course not. Hopefully next tier at least is better.

  17. #157
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  18. #158
    On the short-term spectrum, they made some good changes (new talents, Cloak going down to 1 minute, Smoke Bomb becoming raid CD, buffs so that rogues get brought along for another tier). On the long-term, we're still going to be complaining about the exact same problems as we have been for the past 4 months (SND is boring, 2/3 specs are repetitive, no sustained burst damage in PvP) for at least the next 6 months.

    Enjoy patch 5.2 (I guess)?

    I'm almost as baffled as Coldkil on this one. They say things like "We don't recognize simulated DPS" in one thread and then spout "Subtlety is a great spec!" in another, while forgetting that they've designed their own boss mechanics so that you never have REAL uptime behind bosses anymore.

    At least it's not a complete wash.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I wanted to go assa/sub, and probably will still do. Sub for dailies/solo/fun time, assa for raiding.
    Another reason i've played sub/combat during DS HC progression (apart from sub being best single target DPS by far and cleave requirements for some other fights) was similar (if not exact) secondary stats for those two specs.
    Prior to 4.3 i had to get two different sets of gear and reforge/regem tier pieces (every time i've respecced from assa to combat and so forth) untill i could get my 2nd set . Not that gearing was a problem, but it took some time (considering 2 DK specs and 3 druid ones)
    During DS gemming/reforging for sub worked fine for combat aswell, with specific reforging/gemming for HC spine (not to mention specific spine build and glyphs, for example you couldn't use ToT glyph there).

    This problem persists. All 3 specs now require different gemming, enchants are the same (except the hands) but BiS lists are too far apart with sub and combat still being close. Playing sub/combat would be perfect but it seems that it's not going to happen untill 5.4 at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    They say things like "We don't recognize simulated DPS" in one thread and then spout "Subtlety is a great spec!" in another, while forgetting that they've designed their own boss mechanics so that you never have REAL uptime behind bosses anymore.
    There never gonna be pure "patchwerk" fights, we just have to accept this.
    Not going to play sub during progression, gonna try it after ra-den is dead for sure tho.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    You can't stay behind Tortos (and it's really AoE fight, at least for heroic)
    You can't stay behind Maegara's heads.
    You can't stay behind Jin'rokh all the time (on heroic)
    Goold luck with backstab and ambush During Durumu's Disintegration Beam (plus one of color beams can be targeting you and YOU have to seek the "eyes"
    Horridon is pretty much 3-4 targets fight

    Heck, it's easier to say which fights are "ok" for sub. Iron Qon, Twin Consorts. Hmm, that's all.
    So yeah, sub is dead.
    I always said rogue has 2 and half dps spec and some pro rogue keeps saying sub is viable for pve ROFL

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