[Heroic Garalon] How to maximize dps?

[Deleted]

People are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Rogues can dps both the leg and the body at the same time. A ranged single target nuker can only dps either the body or the leg.

So if you have your ranged on the leg, you're losing the damage the ranged would be doing on the body during the time he's on the leg. The rogue doesn't lose a large amount of body damage from killing the leg. Your rogues are killing the legs for free, while your single target nukers are sacrificing body damage to kill the legs.

[Keyzz]

Well the irony of it is that if it were simple youd already ahve understood, the leg isnt a limitless suply of damage they die and when they die they dont respawn they only respawn at set intervals you always deal exaclty 48% of Garalons life trought leg dmage and the figth always last a maximum of 420 seconds so the leg buf is capped it cant give you more DPS tham 48% of Garalons life divided by 420, in fact in every single fight that lasts 420 seconds it always give you the exact same amount of DPS if the doter isnt loosing dps overall hes gaining dps and its coming from the leg bufed or unbefed its extra dps on the leg wich is the exact same thing that happens with your cleaver inside the stupid blue circle. And why in the word cant the doter stand in the circle go and frekaing stand on it for a second he needs to be in to apply the dots only (actualy he can eb in any legs blue circle and dot all of them that the buf counts).

In fact the extra damage you egt per leg provided youre killing it in 30 seconds is 3% of Garalons leg/ 30, if you one shot the freaking leg thats the extra damage you get from it period. At the moment the one shot occurs your DPS will spike like mad them drop down trough the course of 30 seconds resulting in an efective DPS gain of 3% Garalons life / 30 seconds.

The cleaver deals damage more efectively to the leg ? No he deals damage exactly as efective as the freaking doter provided the doter overall damage is greater when he deals damage on both leg and body together tham just the body every second left where cleaver and doter can focus body is an overall DPS gain because the stupid body is gona die faster and the legs are gona all be dead in 420 seconds maximum provided the strat youre using kills legs before they get healled. If it doesnt change it.

If you have no melee you better stick a freaking ranged in the blue dot and kil this legs cause theres no way in hell youre gona get enought extra DPs in 30s econds from just dots to kill the legs, wich doesnt mean that when you use dots together with cleaving your dps is lower its actualy bigger cause its extra damage from 2 ppl with buf or whithout buf, if one of your melees decide hes gona go crazy and stay outside circle and still hit the leg and cleave to body its still extra damage and if he manages to kill the leg in time the extra damage hes getting guess what is equal to 3% Garalon health divided by 30 seconds yay !!! If you add every person inolved on the killing of the leg and divide the dps they got from killing it the totla will be equal (you know the answer) 3% Garalons life divided by 30 seconds.

Do you understand that waht youre telling me actualy means that if I have a rogue that pulls 300k dps and kill the leg in 10 seconds hes actualy doing damage less efectively tham if the rogue were pulling 100k damage for 30 seconds cause the first killed the leg too soon runing out of "the buf". You cna see how this make no sense right.

Drop the concept that cleave is a magic 2x your damage buf and that it transfer the blue circle extra damage to the body it isnt and thats why youre asuming cleving 24/7 is better tham having the leg die faster and having everyone focus body when theres no leg.

And you guys are free to disagree all you want im not gona try explainign this any longer. Im 200% percent sure someone will quote something and say cleave gives me double damage therefore it trumphs all again.

This isn't referring to your english capabilities, but none of that made any sense. If I were you, I would research the difference between damage and DPS. You do not grasp that concept and therefore can not grasp more complicated things like DPS assignments. This has nothing to do with the leg and cleaving, it has to do with the buff. 100% damage increase is a large buff. I do not understand why in the world you don't want to maximize this buff. It truly does boggle the mind.

And as you mentioned, you could have a ranged dps go in the buff circle, again that is foolish though. First off, you would once again be underutilizing the buff, as you want the leg to die right before the next leg spawns. Secondly, ranged dps does not dps on the move as well as melee dps. The buff circle is constantly moving. A ranged dps would do very poor dps in there.

Again, this has nothing to do with cleaving. This has to do with melee dps getting 100% extra damage, and ranged dps not getting that from attacking the leg. It's such a mind blowingly simple concept. You can have your melee dps do double damage the ENTIRE fight, and your ranged dps do normal damage the ENTIRE fight. Or you can have your melee dps do double damage for half the fight, and your ranged dps do normal damage the entire fight. I think its pretty obvious which option is better. If you don't comprehend this, then I am sorry. It does not get more straightforward. Please do not mention the words "cleave" or "multidot" as this has nothing to do with this mechanic. If you want to argue that ranged dps will gain dps by multidotting, I will argue that melee dps wants to gain dps by cleaving. These two options CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT. The difference is losing the leg buff. If your ranged dps wants to multidot, have them multidot the BACK legs. As this will up their dps, and not ruin the melee dps's capabilities. Such simple concepts, yet so hard to grasp for you.

For anyone looking for actual advice, please do not have your ranged dps help on the leg that melee is working on (unless you don't have enough melee to kill each leg before a new leg spawns).

[Deleted]

A non-cleaving melee dps does 100% damage to the body.
A non-cleaving melee dps does 200% damage to the leg.
A cleaving melee dps (rogue) does 250% damage to the leg and body.
A ranged dps single targeting the leg or the body does 100% dps.

What does a ranged multidotting dps do to the leg and body?
If he does 250% of his normal damage you should put him on the leg with or in stead of a rogue.
If he does 200% of his normal damage you can put him on the leg in stead of ordinary non-cleaving melee dps who serve the purpose of finishing off the leg every 30 sec.
If he does 125% of his normal damage you should not put him on the leg UNLESS your melee dps are unable to finish them off before the 30 sec mark themselves. Still, he should make sure to not make it die a second earlier than that, as that would reduce the overall damage.

Conclusion: You want to maximise the amount of damage your raid does. The best thing you can have, is two cleaving melee dps on the legs. If they cannot finish it off in time, another melee dps dots onto it, and stays in the circle for the dots. If you don't have 3 melee dps, you should have a ranged multidot onto it and make sure it dies at 30 sec.
EDIT: Keep in mind ramp-up time. You don't want your dps to switch main targets a lot. This is why you would only put as few melee dps as needed on the legs if you only have non-cleaving melee. If you have cleaving melee dps those should ALWAYS be on the leg as they deal 50% free damage on default.

@DakonBlackblade: This has nothing to do with opinion, it is pure math. Please. Stop spewing nonsense.

I'd like this confirmed: DoT's do not scale off debuffs on the player?
Dakon said

Not to mention the warlock/shadowpriest/boonkin or whatever can enter the blue circle to apply his dots increasing overall dps even further because the elgs will die even faster, of course doing this will require some discretion on the ranged players part cause he has to evaluate if the travel time to the blue doted line will result in him loosing more DPS on body tham hell gain on leg.

, and I have never found this to be true at all.
I (feral druid) have not found them to be doing so. If I multidot a trash or a rake onto the leg and move out of the circle it only does 100% of normal damage for me. If I apply a trash while not in the circle, and then move into it does 200% of normal damage.
I'd like someone to say if this is true for sure, or just me overlooking something.

[Libertarian]

And there's 3 legs a ranged can easily get into, so saying they can't get into a leg is dumb. And most classes have ways to move and cast. 2 Legs are always going to be close with little movement, and the third is going to be slightly further. If you kite clockwise the raid should always be near the back right leg.

As I said before, my group never cared about the legs, and just said "if you can get in, do it". People make these fights way harder than they should be.

[Viromand]

IF you have a Shadowpriest or a WL make sure Wl if affliction puts his corruption on the legs to get more shards which will increase his singletarget dmg, same with SPs dmg while speccing ToF and using SW to get more orbs and spending them on body

[DakonBlackblade]

IF you have a Shadowpriest or a WL make sure Wl if affliction puts his corruption on the legs to get more shards which will increase his singletarget dmg, same with SPs dmg while speccing ToF and using SW to get more orbs and spending them on body

What are you talking about arent you reading this post multi dotting is terrible what you should do is make sure legs die at exactly 30 secs while cleaving, if your melee is doing too much damage have him strip 1 iten or 2 cause obviously legs dying in 25 secs = dps loss dont you read all this ppl perfect math ? Dont ever do too much DPS too leg its baad you should have melee on them forever.

This isn't referring to your english capabilities, but none of that made any sense. If I were you, I would research the difference between damage and DPS. You do not grasp that concept and therefore can not grasp more complicated things like DPS assignments. This has nothing to do with the leg and cleaving, it has to do with the buff. 100% damage increase is a large buff. I do not understand why in the world you don't want to maximize this buff. It truly does boggle the mind.

Damage is damage and DPS is damage divided by however long the fight lasted efective DPS anyway). So someone with 100k DPS dealing damage over 10 seconds deals 1mil damage yay. And wait since legs live for 30 seconds max and have 3% boss HP your efective DPS on the legs will always be 3%/30. If you kil the legs in 10 seconds your DPS will be higher tham get diluted on the course of the other 20 secs resulting on efective DPS of 3%/30 (this is of course ignoring the damage youre doing to body). So where does the extra damage you deal actualy come from, why dont ppl always do the exact same dps on this fight, because they hit the body as well and if theres no leg to die cause it got killed in half a second them yay everyone focus on body and your raid dps will be higher because you already "consumed" the DPS the leg could give you, or delt the damage it could be dealt.

DoTs on the legs are extra damage that would not exist if there were no DoTs on it, melee with blue buf is more extra damage tham the DoTs but as long as the DoTs arent cutting on the Doter damage more tham theyre giving him overal and the melee gain more damage focusing the body for however long you have till next leg come up them the doter lost on the body to apply the dots on leg/move its more DPS your raid is doing.

Botton line is blue buf is not a magic 2x damage on boss if it was a buf to the entire 100% of bosses health them youd want someone to have it the entire fight and not use anybody unbufed (and again the doters can dot from inside the blue line nothing stops them its not that hard) but the legs are actualy an add that you have to kill in 30 secs and the buf is there to help you kill it fast enought, garalon is a boss with 52% of whatever HP is writen on top of his head and if you have a melee on leg for 30 secs that cant cleave like you sugested hes dealing 0 damage to Garalon but if that leg was dying in 20 secs hed be doing 10 secs of damage to Garalon.

Why do you think using hero on the start fo the fight is such a good strat on Garalon ? You kill the 4 legs that are up pretty darn fast and them have alot of spare time before even having to bother with another leg to hit Garalon with your entire raid, its not because ou have 4 legs its because you cna kill them super fast.

To paraphrase you "if you want actual advice" use as many cleavers on leg as you can and anyone who can dot the legs whithout loosing damage or loosing minimal damage on body do it, if you dont have enought melee cleavers to kill legs fast enought use non cleaving melee (cause of smaler ramp up time compared to ranged and more mobility) and if thats is not an option tham youre stuck using rangeds to focus legs (get inside the blue circle).

Either way it makes no diference patch is next week (probably) RIP Garalon.

[Deleted]

The goal is to have as much cleave damage as possible and still be able kill one leg every 30 sec. Having everybody switch on the leg is a DPS loss for the raid, the most optimal would be to have only combat rogues but it will probably not be enough to kill the leg in time

[Deleted]

snip

I like how you just skipped over my post completely and began rambling about the you kill them faster everyone does more damage to body again. No... cleave dps gain free damage from sitting on legs and other dps lose damage because they have to swap targets (ramp up time)

[Deleted]

Everytime someone actively DPS a leg, this is direct DPS (from him) and cleave DPS (from the passive cleavers) he removes from the boss, ending up in global DPS loss.

[Keyzz]

Its amazing how many people disagree with Dakon yet he is too stubborn to realize he is wrong. I feel sorry for any raid that he might be a part of.

I would hope anyone coming to this thread for advice listens to the majority of people posting clear, thought out, mathematically proven advice. I imagine most people are smart enough to ignore the ramblings from someone that can't understand why losing a 100% buff for the majority of the fight is a bad thing.

[Viromand]

What are you talking about arent you reading this post multi dotting is terrible what you should do is make sure legs die at exactly 30 secs while cleaving, if your melee is doing too much damage have him strip 1 iten or 2 cause obviously legs dying in 25 secs = dps loss dont you read all this ppl perfect math ? Dont ever do too much DPS too leg its bad you should have melee on them forever.
.

They fixed the bug were cleaves would take the 100% dmg buffs from the leg and hit the body with 100% dmg buff too. But that doesnt matter, if the leg dies in 20 or 25 seconds if you only have two people on them.

To the multidot pov. its not about killing the legs faster its about maximizing your single target dps. If your shadow isnt speccing ToF (15% dmg if you hit a target with less than 20% hp) he is not specced the right way and maxing out his single target dps.

Same goes with Affliction Wls if the dot a leg with corruption they will have a higher chance of getting soulshard which can be used to cast haunt on the body thats 25% dmg for 8 seconds (correct me if im wrong here) and use drain soul on leg seconds before it dies to get all 4 shards (this i dont know if it works but it should)

And this is an actual increase in single target dmg to the body. You will see if your Shadow has 50-60% uptime on ToF or your affliction has soulshards the entire fight they will do so much more dmg to the boss then 2 melees cleaving while killing the leg.

It really doenst matter how long the leg lives, its just about how many are running into the legs circle. if they live 15 25 or 30 seconds doesnt matter as long as you can kill them wit two they dont even have to be melees they just help cause most melees have cleaves but casters can kill the legs too. you will loose a bit if you take non mutlidot casters or eleshamans, but cleaves dont doubledip anymore.

a combat roque that hits the body for 100k will hit the leg for 200k and with bladefury he will hit the body for 100k as cleave dmg. Thats how it works now.

[Rodpad]

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