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  1. #1

    [BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

    Since Beta is officially upon us this thread will be changed slightly from the "pre-Beta" iteration to a full blown Beta thread. I'll include a few shortcut links to things relevant to Beta:

    General Talent Calculator

    PvP Talent Calculator

    Artifact Talent Tree

    Item Sets

    Legacy of Azj'Aqir
    Vestments of the Black Harvest

    Legendaries (ooo shiny):
    Pillars of the Dark Portal
    Sin'dorei Spite
    Sephuz's Secret
    Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus

    Magistrike Restraints
    Odr, Shawl of the Ymirjar
    Feretory of Souls
    Alythess's Pyrogenics

    Legendaries NOT available yet:
    Fatebender
    Timeshifters
    Norgannon's Foresight





    Once the datamining is over and/or beta actually comes out with all the current abilities and spells I'll update the OP. Currently there is a lot of information out there for all the specs, but sort of in jumbled order which can be found here: http://www.wowhead.com/news=250045/l...hanges#warlock

    Originally Posted by Blizzard


    Destruction
    Warlocks who command the power of destruction favor incantations of pure chaos and aggression in battle. In this regard, they’d find a stronger kinship with fire mages than warlocks of other disciplines—if not for their propensity to make use of magic deemed detestable by all mage orders. The destruction warlock is well-versed in discharging a dizzying array of shadow, fel, fire, and chaos magics upon opponents that rattle souls and conflagrate bodies. They require little motivation for the havoc they wreak, happy to revel in the destruction they cause—thrilled at any opportunity to watch the world erupt in discord around them.

    "Warlocks who command the power of destruction favor incantations of pure chaos and aggression"

    Gameplay
    Destruction mechanics are in a solid place overall and are already a good match thematically, so we’re taking the opportunity in Legion to provide additional polish on existing gameplay. While resource mechanic functionality isn’t being drastically overhauled, we’ve changed Burning Embers back to Soul Shards. Not only does this return consistency across all Warlock specs, it also reestablishes the Soul Shard as the iconic source of Warlock power.

    To give you an idea of the Destruction Warlock in action, here’s a basic look at their core combat abilities:
    • Incinerate
      • 6% Mana, 40 yd range, 2 sec cast
      • Draws fire toward the enemy, dealing moderate Fire damage.
    • Immolate
      • 6% Mana, 40 yd range, 1.5 sec cast
      • Burns the enemy with fire, causing minor Fire damage and an additional strong Fire damage over 15 sec.
      • Immolate critical strikes have a 30% chance to generate a Soul Shard.
    • Conflagrate
      • 2% Mana, 40 yd range, Instant, 8 sec recharge, 2 charges
      • Triggers an explosion of fire on the target, dealing moderate Fire damage and generating a Soul Shard.
      • Also causes Backdraft, reducing the cast times of Incinerate and Chaos Bolt by 30% for 5 sec.
    • Chaos Bolt
      • 2 Soul Shards, 40 yd range, 2.5 sec cast
      • Unleashes a devastating blast of chaos, causing huge Shadow damage. Chaos Bolt always critically strikes and your critical strike chance increases its damage.
    • Havoc
      • 8% Mana, 40 yd range, Instant, 20 sec cooldown
      • Mark a target with Havoc for 8 sec, causing your single target spells to also strike them. Limit 1.
    • Mastery: Chaotic Energies
      • Your Destruction spells deal up to 40% (with Mastery from typical gear) additional damage, randomly.

    Additionally, to provide a glimpse at how some talents may build upon this, here’s one example of a Destruction-specific talent:
    • Channel Demonfire
      • 4.8% Mana, Channeled, 12 se cooldown
      • Launches 15 bolts of felfire at Immolated enemies within 40 yds, over 3 sec. Each bolt deals moderate Fire damage.
    Destruction Tweets

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Where's shadowburn? Why Havoc duration has been nerfed(bye prehavocs) Why backdraft duration has been nerfed? Wheres FnB? I hope it's still here, because if not that new talent won't save the day for destruction.
    Shadowburn is a talent, with improved usability. Fire and Brimstone is a talent that passively makes Incinerate AoE. (WarcraftDevs)

    Single-Target Base SoulShard generation for Destro looks slow. 2 every 16 sec + low RNG on Immo. Talents for more?
    Indeed, there are several talents that deal with Soul Shards. (WarcraftDevs)

    What does 'Your Destruction spells deal up to x% additional damage, randomly' mean? how does that work?
    Mastery provides a damage bonus to those spells, but it's a random % increase, up to the (very high) Mastery %
    The frequency of your attacks will quickly smooth out the RNG element, but it's always possible you might prefer other stats. (WarcraftDevs)

    Can you clarify the "limit 1" on Havoc's description? Limit 1 what?
    You may only place Havoc on one target at a time. That matters when it's improved via talents. (WarcraftDevs)

    is there ANY justifiable reason to keep CB as shadow damage, not as chaos damage?
    We'd actually be interested in hearing discussion on this, after clearing up a common misconception: (WarcraftDevs)
    Chaos damage does NOT inherently bypass shields/immunity. Interrupting it would lock ALL schools. Still want that? (WarcraftDevs)

    I noticed Rain of Fire isn't listed as an ability in the Destruction preview. Will it still exist in Legion?
    RoF and FnB overlapped too much in Warlords, which is why we hotfixed RoF out of the picture until we could revise. (WarcraftDevs)
    In Legion, RoF is the primary AoE, and FnB is a talent (which doesn't obsolete RoF). (WarcraftDevs)

    is Charred Remains gone for Destruction warlocks? Please let it be gone!! And is there any hope for fel flame?
    Definitely gone. It turned out very un-fun. Many Warlock talents are changing, and we're looking forward to feedback on them! (WarcraftDevs)

    So will aff/destro locks have any form of burst cooldowns other than summon Doomguard/Infernal since dark soul is gone?
    There are a few talents that improve burst, and the Doomguard/Infernal are being buffed to deal significantly more damage. (WarcraftDevs)
    General

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    How many soul shards do each of the Warlock specs have and are there ways to regen them out of combat?
    Maximum of 5 for all specs. 1 regens out of combat. There are other sources, including out of combat, in talents. (WarcraftDevs)

    I would really like some clarification of this phrase: "and causing some demons to be favored based on the Warlock’s spec."
    When all pets' damage was equal, everyone used an Imp. In Legion, each spec will slightly favor one demon for raw DPS.
    Affliction slightly favors Felhunters. Demonology favors Felguards, and Destruction favors Imps. Others offer strong utility. (WarcraftDevs)

    I like everything I see. Will we still keep our green fire?
    Green Fire is staying. Don't worry. (WarcraftDevs)

    How do Warlocks regen Mana in Legion? Life Tap? Stuff like the initial Affliction Artifact Talent? Both?
    Yes, all Warlocks will use Life Tap in Legion. (WarcraftDevs)

    I'm curious why some times class consistency is good (soul shards) and other times its not (holy power)?
    Great question! It's important that the resource itself has strong fantasy, and that it also brings strong gameplay. (WarcraftDevs)

    Does Dark Soul still exist for Warlocks in Legion?
    No. Instead, Doomguards and Infernals will be on much shorter cooldowns, and possibly stronger, to fulfill the same role. (WarcraftDevs)

    I keep hearing a lot about executes being mostly removed outside of Warriors. Will Doomguard's Doom Bolt still have execute?
    Still evaluating. We're most sensitive to abilities which are only usable at low target health. Doom Bolt is different. (WarcraftDevs)
    Artifact Weapon


    Created through incredible effort by hundreds of Sargeras' servants, this scepter can rip open dimensional gateways between worlds. It was entombed beneath the sea for centuries, then used by the orc shaman Ner'zhul to open the portals that tore the world of Draenor apart, leaving behind the shattered realm of Outland. The scepter was finally secured by the elite magi of the Kirin Tor. Unable to destroy it, they hid it away in a magically protected chamber and put it under eternal watch to prevent it from ever being used again.

    Artifact Skins



    Artifact Traits

    • Each artifact trait tree starts at a specific position, the thick gold border trait.
    • After selecting that trait, you can select any of the ones directly connected to it.
    • For most classes, there are 3 Major Traits that are 4-5 deep in the trait tree. These are capped at Rank 1.
    • The Minor Traits in the rest of the tree are capped to 3 by default.
    • The cap on traits can be increase by up to 2 using relics.
    • The current trait calculator doesn't restrict what traits you can select or support relics. This is coming in a future update.
    Originally Posted by MMO-Champion



    Artifact Trait Tree


    CLICKY

    Talent Tree

    CLICKY
    Last edited by Woz; 2016-05-12 at 11:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Gungnir's Avatar
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    RNG and Life Tap.
    I'm not even sure what to say, just wondering who thought it'd be a good idea when it comes to a spec that's famed for smooth and reliable resource generation?

  3. #3
    Why not add some RNG to Life Tap. Sometimes it adds a lot of mana, sometimes no mana at all. Chaotic!

    Seriously thought destro changes suck royally.


    upd. our lord has spoken
    Last edited by Dnusha; 2015-11-11 at 01:53 AM.

  4. #4
    How am I supposed to bitch about all 3 specs simultaneously if the threads are separate?

    You guys are the wurst.
    "I have neither the power nor wisdom to oppose a foe who won't listen to reason"

  5. #5
    R.I.P Rain of Fire,

    your pre-nerfed, instant, non-channeling, ember-generating, good dmg version will be missed

  6. #6
    As players we are often chided for adding input too early in the process (It's only beta), then 10 seconds later it's too late in the process.

    I wonder where we're at now?

    Destro changes are surprisingly bad. Instead of keeping an elegant spec whole and polishing it up, they broke what was fine and are now going to spend a few months polishing poor-man fixes for what they broke.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnywalker View Post
    R.I.P Rain of Fire,

    your pre-nerfed, instant, non-channeling, ember-generating, good dmg version will be missed
    Who says Rain of Fire is going away?

  8. #8
    Keyboard Turner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    RNG and Life Tap.
    I'm not even sure what to say, just wondering who thought it'd be a good idea when it comes to a spec that's famed for smooth and reliable resource generation?
    I agree, was assuming this was going to happen after the RoF nerf came. Kinda like it, may make Destro a bit more fun but idk, depends how it looks and feels in Beta. We did need a new way of getting embers, but the randomness does make me worry.

  9. #9
    Mana is basically irrelevant for every other class, but for some ungodly reason warlocks still need to manage it!

    Not at all a fan of Shadowburn and Fire and brimstone being talents. But I suppose we'll have to see what other talents there are as well.

    Really hoping we'll be able to start a fight with full shards instead of just one. It's annoying enough now to build them up in the opener when it's consistent, nevermind when it's fairly heavy on the RNG.

    But, again, it comes back to we'll just have to wait and see where they take it. As it stands, I'm personally not too big a fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
    Obviously Garrosh would win, it's like a gorilla vs a human... do you know how strong a gorilla is? He'll snap your dick off and throw it in the tall grass. Garrosh = dick-snapper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Sure. When I wake up in the middle of the night with a full tank, I just flip back the curtain and let it flow.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    How am I supposed to bitch about all 3 specs simultaneously if the threads are separate?

    You guys are the wurst.
    I'll take the blame...sorry friend.

  11. #11
    You know what I want? Give Chaotic Energy to all specs, and have Life Tap generate a Soul Shard.

    Quote Originally Posted by kneeo View Post
    Really hoping we'll be able to start a fight with full shards instead of just one. It's annoying enough now to build them up in the opener when it's consistent, nevermind when it's fairly heavy on the RNG..
    They've already said we start with one, but we can immediately get 2 more via Conflagrate... although doing so would waste 3 backdraft charges.

  12. #12
    I really hope we get to keep our flame visuals as we gain shards, I hate those stupid floating crystals, and the verdant spheres are just as bad.

  13. #13
    "Hundred of new talents", more like, take existing baseline spells and make them "new talents"

  14. #14
    I don't like the RNG, especially if Charred Remains as it currently is, is still a thing. I'd be much more likely to hit the big mastery on my Incinerates that don't do any real damage than I'd be on my Chaos Bolts which do most of my damage.

    For those who haven't seen it elsewhere the limit/1 on Havoc is 1 target per cast, not 1 spell. It has something to do with talents. I expect we'll have one that either lowers the CD or something.

    A lot of the destro stuff seems like change for change's sake. I think it was one of the specs in the game that played well aside from RoF being worthless. Readding Life Tap to Desto seems unnecessary.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    I really hope we get to keep our flame visuals as we gain shards, I hate those stupid floating crystals, and the verdant spheres are just as bad.
    They are even worse when you have none of them at all. Because one RNG from another RNG is not really reliable.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Firespark View Post
    You know what I want? Give Chaotic Energy to all specs, and have Life Tap generate a Soul Shard.
    I dig this idea...quite a bit actually. It would have to have a significant CD though otherwise you'd just spam life tap for infinite CBs and forcing a healer to focus you...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsaxen View Post
    I dig this idea...quite a bit actually. It would have to have a significant CD though otherwise you'd just spam life tap for infinite CBs and forcing a healer to focus you...
    Have it function like Chi Brew. 2 charges, 1 min recharge. Or even just 1 charge, whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by HopOnPop View Post
    Obviously Garrosh would win, it's like a gorilla vs a human... do you know how strong a gorilla is? He'll snap your dick off and throw it in the tall grass. Garrosh = dick-snapper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    Sure. When I wake up in the middle of the night with a full tank, I just flip back the curtain and let it flow.

  18. #18
    Legendary! Packers01's Avatar
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    Will, this made my choice of what toon to main a little easier. I can't believe they did not mention anything movement related.
    "I don't want someone who has the knowledge, skill, or even personality necessary to be president. I want someone who can speak his bigoted mind without worrying about offending people!"- The batman

    Common courtesy is like common sense these days, neither of them are too common anymore.

  19. #19
    Okay so to recap:

    We can no longer triple shadowburn havoc cleave.(EDIT: Missed the blue post clarifying Havoc, apparently you can)
    Backdraft no longer has stacks.
    FnB has been highly simplified and is a talent.
    Shadow burn is now a talent...
    We can only generate shards through conflag and immolate. We can no longer generate resource with incinerate.
    Chaos bolt costs TWO soulshards.
    Our new Mastery seems much weaker and is incredibly RNG.

    Overall, it seems they have dramatically reduced the skill cap and made our DPS far more RNG.
    It looks like the gap between average players and more skilled players has been reduced even further.
    Last edited by Moyga; 2015-11-12 at 09:46 AM.

  20. #20
    I think my main gripe about Destro is who at Blizzard started the rumor that RNG = fun? Aff locks have complained the entire expansion about RNG in their resources. There's no reason the mastery couldn't be a straight ~20-25% increase (boring but it's what the whole RNG averages out to without the big swings leaving you feeling weak, and out of control).

    I also really dislike the whole "Destro's in a great place, so let's tinker with everything."

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