Warrior fury and 5.2 TG or SmF

[Ultraprime]

come 5.2 I have been hearing that TG with be the better way to go over SmF, Any way to validate this?

[Deleted]

You could go on the PTR and try it out for yourself.

[Ultraprime]

I would but ptr is so close to being finished whats the point

[Deleted]

Id say SMF still. Not sure tho since i havent been on PTR. // "OFFTOPIC" I was wondering that will crit still be our main stat or will mastery take over since our tier 15 2 piece bonus? //

[cloudrox]

with -25% execute damage nerf, i think TG better in 5.2

[Gatsu]

with -25% execute damage nerf, i think TG better in 5.2

this /10chars

[LordSpaztic]

with -25% execute damage nerf, i think TG better in 5.2

this /10chars

Because Execute was a SMF only ability amirite? TG/SMF/Arms will ALL be affected by the Execute nerf.
Guess which spec still has the strongest execute. - It's a small hint, but it starts with S, and ends in F.

Not to mention the already 35% damage increase to abilities keeps SMF close to the same damage for standard attacks like Bloodthirst, Raging Blow, Colossus Smash, while also buffing our other attacks such as Wildstrike, Dragon Roar significantly which TG doesn't.

Hold your horses, SMF isn't toppled yet.

[Pickwickman]

Because Execute was a SMF only ability amirite? TG/SMF/Arms will ALL be affect

So, the Spec most reliant to its Execute is not going to suffer most out of the other two specs?

Now, I am not saying that TG will pull ahead, because SMF still has stronger specials, and specials scale better than melee swings. But ignoring that when execute damage is lowered that TG and SMF get closer to eachother is just plain ignorant.

[Deleted]

Because Execute was a SMF only ability amirite? TG/SMF/Arms will ALL be affected by the Execute nerf.
Guess which spec still has the strongest execute. - It's a small hint, but it starts with S, and ends in F.

Execute sims as 15% of SMF's damage compared to 13% of TG's based on the t14h simcraft results. In absolute terms, that means that execute averages 19,325 dps over a fight for SMF, 15,960 dps over a fight for TG.

Applying the 25% nerf, SMF would lose 4831 dps, TG would lose 3990 dps.

So while now the gap between SMF and TG is 6,067 dps, if this change was applied and nothing else were to change, the gap would shrink to 5,226.

Obviously this is all based on a bunch of unrealistic assumptions (things will change with new gear, as well as the haste/bloodsurge changes, and lots of people question simcraft's accuracy in the first place), but just to give a rough idea of how much more this nerf will affect SMF compared to TG - and the answer is not enough to erode SMF's comfortable lead over TG on single target only fights.

[Chapterhouse]

come 5.2 I have been hearing that TG with be the better way to go over SmF, Any way to validate this?

It's not SMF versus TG or TG versus Arms or even SMF versus Arms. From a progression standpoint it's a gearing choice between one-handers and two-handers. TG + Arms offers up a lot more possibilities but competition for two-handers will be probably be high if you're in a 25 man raid with DKs and Rets. If you're in a 10 man guild, you'll most likely end up going with whatever drops.

[Darkfriend]

Because Execute was a SMF only ability amirite? TG/SMF/Arms will ALL be affected by the Execute nerf.
Guess which spec still has the strongest execute. - It's a small hint, but it starts with S, and ends in F.

Not to mention the already 35% damage increase to abilities keeps SMF close to the same damage for standard attacks like Bloodthirst, Raging Blow, Colossus Smash, while also buffing our other attacks such as Wildstrike, Dragon Roar significantly which TG doesn't.

Hold your horses, SMF isn't toppled yet.

Ok, let me explain why SMF is hit harder by an execute nerf. SMF and TG have fairly similar AP numbers, since the only real difference in gearing is weapons (generally.) Here is an example. A person who overgears me and is SMF (Jalopy) has 33.5k AP as SMF. I have 37.1k as TG. He has 9 item levels on me, so just say 33.5k v 40k AP. Execute is an AP scaling ability. Meaning that, if everything else were equal, my execute would hit harder. HOWEVER, he has a 35% damage boost due to SMF. So his executes will hit harder, and be a correspondingly greater amount of his DPS over a fight. As a result, a nerf to execute will hit him harder than it will me as TG.

This is also because a greater percentage of my damage comes from weapon damage based attacks, such as RB. Even with the 35% bonus damage, the difference between TG and SMF weapon damage is MUCH LARGER than the difference between the two's AP difference.

Essentially, this means any AP based attack nerf will hit both specs, but will hit SMF harder. Any weapon damage based attacks will hit both specs, but will hit TG harder. Execute and glyph of heroic leap nerf will both hit SMF harder than they will hit TG.

TL;DR, since there is a larger gap between the AP differences of SMF/TG and the weapon damage differences of SMF/TG, AP based attack nerfs hurt SMF more. If the difference were the same as the damage bonus that SMF got (If TG had 35% more AP) it would be closer (Although not the same) of a nerf to both SMF and TG.

[Opeth69]

I also wouldn't base execute % off of simcraft as I've noticed execute used correctly with CDs ends up being more than 14% of your dmg as smf, sometimes considerably more, so I imagine this nerf is bigger than simcraft might show, however I would like blizzard to address an obvious problem that fury dps might be too high next tier, but also try and even out the gap between smf and tg, I'm not sure this is the way to do it, and I like that smf and tg have different benefits but I think after using them both this tier and looking at how few opportunities tg has to gain an advantage next tier, that having some rebalancing between the two is needed or tg is going to be trumped completely next tier

[Deleted]

I also wouldn't base execute % off of simcraft as I've noticed execute used correctly with CDs ends up being more than 14% of your dmg as smf, sometimes considerably more, so I imagine this nerf is bigger than simcraft might show, however I would like blizzard to address an obvious problem that fury dps might be too high next tier, but also try and even out the gap between smf and tg, I'm not sure this is the way to do it, and I like that smf and tg have different benefits but I think after using them both this tier and looking at how few opportunities tg has to gain an advantage next tier, that having some rebalancing between the two is needed or tg is going to be trumped completely next tier

I've been told, though can't find a source to verify, that Simcraft currently isn't loading up cooldowns and pot+maxing rage for execute phase, lending it a subpar execute.

[Darkfriend]

I've been told, though can't find a source to verify, that Simcraft currently isn't loading up cooldowns and pot+maxing rage for execute phase, lending it a subpar execute.

This is true. You can look at the page itself on simcraft to see that.

[crazed]

Regardless of what spec is better, if you don't have higher ilvl weapons for SMF compared to TG, TG will pull higher.

[Recke]

A huge concept error is that Execute is only 13-15% of a warriors damage as Fury. If you look at any of the top parses, excluding cleave fights (and possibly Will due to Opportunistic Strike), a warrior's execute is about 20% of their damage. Simcraft is useful, but it's not 100% accurate (especially for warriors) on the priority list.

Crazed, you aren't 100% accurate, but you probably meant to include this. If you have the same ilvl weapons for SMF and TG, SMF will pull higher single target.

[Juni]

Smf still.. The question should be: Arms or Fury.. As the recent haste/mastery buffs for arms are quite big and the execute nerf isnt as big for arms as it is for fury (fury has more dmg coming from executes than arms)

[Deleted]

Smf still.. The question should be: Arms or Fury.. As the recent haste/mastery buffs for arms are quite big and the execute nerf isnt as big for arms as it is for fury (fury has more dmg coming from executes than arms)

Currently on simcraft arms warrior is losing to smf fury by few thousand dps (like 4-6%) without optimal reforges. But the thing is that fury and arms warriors use different gear because arms prefers haste over crit and fury prefers crit over haste.

EDIT: this was BEFORE execute nerfs.

[CollisionTD]

This is true. You can look at the page itself on simcraft to see that.

This is completely false. There's a reason the recklessness line is a mile long, and you took exactly 0 seconds to read the entire thing.

actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(target.health.pct<20&buff.recklessness.up)|buff.bloodlust.react|targ et.time_to_die<=25
Weird, so it uses a potion when the targets health is below 20 and recklessness is up. I think that's the same time that execute is available. The bloodlust part of the line never actually occurs because bloodlust is used at the start of the simulation, when your prepot is running.

actions+=/recklessness,use_off_gcd=1,if=((debuff.colossus_smash.remains>=5|cooldown.colossus_smash.r emains<=4)&((!talent.avatar.enabled|!set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee)&((target.health.pct<20|ta rget.time_to_die>315|(target.time_to_die>165&set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee)))|(talent.avatar. enabled&set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee&buff.avatar.up)))&(!talent.bloodbath.enabled|cooldown.b loodbath.remains<=3|((target.time_to_die>315&target.time_to_die<(315+cooldown.bloodbath.re mains))|(set_bonus.tier14_4pc_melee&target.time_to_die>165&target.time_to_die<(165+cooldow n.bloodbath.remains))))|target.time_to_die<=18

This mess of a line even includes a reduced CD recklessness due to T14 4 piece, and the TLDR of it is that it uses it at the start of the fight, and then constantly checks to make sure that recklessness will be available for use during execute before using recklessness earlier in a fight.

actions+=/bloodbath,use_off_gcd=1,if=talent.bloodbath.enabled&(debuff.colossus_smash.remains>=5&(tar get.time_to_die>79|(target.time_to_die<79&target.health.pct<20&(buff.recklessness.up|coold own.recklessness.remains>=(target.time_to_die-25)))))

This also checks to make sure that bloodbath is available for said execute with recklessness.

SMF does about 1% more damage than TG with execute disabled on a sim, so it's kind of unlikely that TG will miraculously be ahead of SMF with 25% nerfed execute.

A huge concept error is that Execute is only 13-15% of a warriors damage as Fury. If you look at any of the top parses, excluding cleave fights (and possibly Will due to Opportunistic Strike), a warrior's execute is about 20% of their damage. Simcraft is useful, but it's not 100% accurate (especially for warriors) on the priority list.

Simulationcraft displays averages, not ranges. If you run a single iteration multiple times you will notice execute damage can range from 12-20% of a warriors damage depending on rng. The percentage of damage also heavily depends on the length of the encounter, as well as the length of execute phase. A lot of warriors who have ridiculous execute damage percentage numbers are due to raid members dying earlier on the fight, or just got lucky on their crits.

[Glurp]

Currently on simcraft arms warrior is losing to smf fury by few thousand dps (like 4-6%) without optimal reforges. But the thing is that fury and arms warriors use different gear because arms prefers haste over crit and fury prefers crit over haste.

EDIT: this was BEFORE execute nerfs.

Execute nerf hurts SMF more than any other spec, also looking that Execute is the only ability that hits harder as SMF than TG and the current gap between SMF and TG is very small, if the Execute nerf stays around TG could easily come out on top.