Turkey restarts negociations over EU membership

[Kuntantee]

You still refuse to learn real history. As I said many times already, until turks accept their own history of atrocities and violence they have no place in Europe.

You would be much more convincing if you didn't post books and videos prepared by indoctrinated Turk-haters.

Also I don't get what's wrong with being a country which recognized its prime religion as Islam(by "Islamic" if you mean non-secular regime, than think again). Islam is a fine religion as much as Christianity.

[Deleted]

It's true though, anyone that has spent a single Friday or Saturday night in a turkish city must know that girls are very restricted when it comes to clothing.....
....
/sarcasm

Spending time there with your second Half is painful.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 03:42 PM ----------

dont be blunt , find the original reply and check what does it reply about.

Doesn't make it any less xenophobic and false.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 03:46 PM ----------

You would be much more convincing if you didn't post books and videos prepared by indoctrinated Turk-haters.

Also I don't get what's wrong with being a country which recognized its prime religion as Islam(by "Islamic" if you mean non-secular regime, than think again). Islam is a fine religion as much as Christianity.

Yeh people ignore things but talk about it I'd guess.

[Deleted]

Personally i believe that Turkey has abandoned the idea of joining the EU a long time ago and all that we witness from time to time is a polital theatrical play so that both sides can reap some benefits.I mean when you proclaim that your goal is to attain "political leadership" over the islamic world how can you simultaneusly aim to be part of the basis of (at least historically) western civilization?

More importantly what do they even have in common with the western civilization?The only connection that i see is that they tried to swallow Europe in the past.And no resorting to historical facts is not redundant especially since Erdogan is talking about the revitalization of Neo-Ottomanism.

To mention the status of the economy is irrelevant.The EU is not meant to be a group of elitist anyway.And besides it has been stated repeatedly that the turkish economy begins to show signs of "overheating" (Economist).They are currently in a spending frenzy but the bubble will break one day as it happened with Greece.Dont forget that the IMF was present for decades in Turkey.In any case one has to see the foundations of the economy and not just its current status.

[Wildtree]

You might want to cut down on the smoking, as this is completely absurd. When the "guest worker" programs started in the 60s Germany was fully rebuilt. It was rebuilt by Germans and the only country on the planet offering significant help was the US of A with the Marshall Plan.

Germany was NOT fully rebuilt..
1. The Germans cleaned up the mess right after WW2.. That part is true..
2. In 1960 the period called "Wirtschaftswunder" (Economy Miracle) started.
Said period was heavily supported by the guest workers, of which Turks had a great part. At some point there have been 2.5 mio Turkish guest workers in Germany. Many of them returned home after 1973.... Many of them stood, and became citizen. And some of them are still here, and have become an integral of our society.
We Germans alone could not have done it without the guest workers help....

And don't worry about the smoking, I've quit that 20 years ago.

Portuguese guest workers are rather very few.... Here's a list of my hometowns Non-Germans as of 2008:

1. Türkei 21.186
2. Griechenland 9.279
3. Italien 6.615
4. Ukraine 5.116
5. Polen 4.763
6. Serbien 4.303
7. Russland 3.519
8. Kroatien 3.305
9. Irak 2.538
10. Bosnien und Herzegowina 2.433
11. Österreich 1.673
12. USA 1.389
13. Spanien 1.366
14. Ungarn 848
15. Tschechien 832
16. Mazedonien 811
17. Frankreich 650
18. Großbritannien 629
19. Portugal 445
20. Slowakei 300

City size is 500k roughly.. The Turks are the largest community by far, and have been just that for a long long time.
And at least for my City, they are just as accepted as Italians, Greeks or Spanish. The members from the east-block have not been that many before the cold war ended. Until then, those 4 nationalities have been the majorities amongst guest workers.

Do me a favor, and either don't say anything at all, or come up with real examples. But do so only when you can relate to it, because you live there and long enough.
I said the Turks helped like no other country in regard of active workforce. And that remains true. The USA "only" provided supplies and financial aid, to rebuild what they destroyed before.

[Deleted]

Not while Cyprus is divided and their military is occupying a significant portion of the island. In fact I don't even think it should be up for discussion within the EU for a country to join whilst they illegally occupy the territory of a member state.

The Greek government is just as bad, and they should all fuck off out of our affairs, and let us try and sort out our own solution.

That's true of Greece also taking land from Albania.

[Bakis]

agree'd.

Turkey is not ready for EU and vice versa.

IF the problems in the middle-east stabilize, maybe then. But not any time soon.

Middle east stabilize?.
Turkey as of today does not meet the demand for human rights, rule of law, freedom of press among other things.
Those are what has to be addressed, not that the middle east stop being a powder keg.

[Deleted]

You don't need a degree to wield a gun and their army is quite modern (I think?).

Yeah, more modern than a few European nations at least. They are at a level that the UK and USA were at maybe 15 years ago. Enough to put up a fight against most of the worlds nations.

[Deleted]

Middle east stabilize?.
Turkey as of today does not meet the demand for human rights, rule of law, freedom of press among other things.
Those are what has to be addressed, not that the middle east stop being a powder keg.

the middle-east plays a highly influential role.

[Bakis]

the middle-east plays a highly influential role.

So Turkey's lack of what I mentioned is due to its location?

[Deleted]

This is what it comes down to...''the people in Turkey aren't Christian''. Let me burst a bubble, their isn't a European culture.

But you know what, at least the Turkish government isn't ruled by it's religion compared to most of the EU countries. In Turkey the separation of religion and state is absolute and only in recent years the restrictions have been lessened but not in any governing way.

The issues the politicians from different countries have is different though. They would all gladly accept any benefits that Turkey may bring (even those that are anti-turkey) but they don't really want to pay for it, that's why you often see the politicians from different countries suggest ''a special partner-ship'' between the EU countries and Turkey. Recently the same thing is being shouted by the government of the UK, some people would gladly benefit from being a member of the EU but at the same time they don't really want to pay for the potential benefits.

If the EU is going to reject Turkey it should be based on facts and not numbers pulled out of somebody's ass (like most of the ''facts'' stated in this topic).

Well I didn't mean that Turkey is lead by some extremist islamists like Egypt by saying islamist country, it was a poor word choice and I actually just meant that it is a muslim country which is honestly already a big reason to not take them in the eu.

[Bakis]

Well I didn't mean that Turkey is lead by some extremist islamists like Egypt by saying islamist country, it was a poor word choice and I actually just meant that it is a muslim country which is honestly already a big reason to not take them in the eu.

That is not a reason as long as they embrace our values. We already have a huge muslim population in the EU that overall do it just fine.

[Deleted]

Well I didn't mean that Turkey is lead by some extremist islamists like Egypt by saying islamist country, it was a poor word choice and I actually just meant that it is a muslim country which is honestly already a big reason to not take them in the eu.

Religion should have nothing to do with membership, we already have a few Islamic countries in the EU that get along just fine.

[Doktor Faustus]

The former is untrue. Germany does not want any more Turkish migrant workers, and entry into the EU would essentially pave the way for that.

Hence the italics

Trying to say that attitudes will and do change.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 04:50 PM ----------

I study in Belgium, I don't get biased Turkish education =/

People keep confusing Turks with ottomans. you say atrocities, so you confuse me.

I have heard this defence before, that it was the Ottomans and not the Turks that commited the genocide.

While this is true to some degree, it negates the fact that the powerhouse of the Ottoman Empire was Anatolia, and therefore Turkey is its successor state.

The same thing happens with the (Republic of) Ireland and Scotland, when it comes to negative aspects of the British Empire, even when some of the perpatrators were born in those respective constituent nations of the United kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 04:52 PM ----------

Turkey is the world's largest producer of hazelnut, cherry, fig, apricot, quince and pomegranate;
the second largest producer of watermelon, cucumber and chickpea;
the third largest producer of tomato, eggplant, green pepper, lentil and pistachio;
the fourth largest producer of onion and olive;
the fifth largest producer of sugar beet;
the sixth largest producer of tobacco, tea and apple;
the seventh largest producer of cotton and barley; the eighth largest producer of almond;
the ninth largest producer of wheat, rye and grapefruit,
the tenth largest producer of lemon.
Turkey has been self-sufficient in food production since the 1980s.
the 7th largest automotive producer in Europe
Turkey is one of the world's leading shipbuilding nations; in 2007 Turkish shipyards ranked 4th in the world (behind China, South Korea and Japan)
Turkey ranks 10th in the list of countries by steel production.

Do we need more, to approve them as EU benefit?

EU trade laws will stifle your competiveness in some sectors, and increase it in others.

The Euro is still effectively giving Germany a boon in trade because without the Europe-wide Euro, Germany would have a stupidly strong Deustchmark.

Swings and roundabouts.

[Cybran]

You would be much more convincing if you didn't post books and videos prepared by indoctrinated Turk-haters.

I have presented links and articles. I have presented sources for my information. You haven't done anything, but just decided my info is "prepared by indoctrinated Turk-haters"... Also the only video i linked was from Marlon Brando talking about how native americans were subjected to genocide.

You are a prime example of a turk unwilling to embrace european values eventhough you were raised in an european country. Don't reply to me unless you have real facts "prepared by non-indocrinated turk-lovers".

[Deleted]

Religion should have nothing to do with membership, we already have a few Islamic countries in the EU that get along just fine.

If anything it's a great way to help develop a "liberal secular Islamic based society".

[Cybran]

Religion should have nothing to do with membership, we already have a few Islamic countries in the EU that get along just fine.

There are no islamic countries in the EU. And the only islamic countries in Europe are Albania, Bosnia and Kosovo and I wouldn't say we get along just fine with any of them.

[Deleted]

There are no islamic countries in the EU. And the only islamic countries in Europe are Albania, Bosnia and Kosovo and I wouldn't say we get along just fine with any of them.

Surely not because of religion.
You give way too much importance to religion. Somalia is bad cause they're poor, not cause they're Muslim. If they were catholic it'd be the same. Same with Albania, Bosnia etc etc etc... You would see religion take a step back from society if there was a proper economy running.

[Deleted]

Back when i played WoW i had a turkish guild leader plus some other turkish guys and they were pretty cool guys. I remember one raid night Jannisarry (guild leader) was blasting death metal in the background so i really don't think they are THAT backwards like other muslim country.

But then again one person does not represent the country so whatever.

[Roose]

When Turkey was headed toward a more secular nation I would have said that it would be a great fit. I still think that parts of Turkey like Istanbul would fit right in. The rural parts are still full of fundamentalists, kinda like the US.

[Valort]

I mean look at valort. He's against excusively because of the international policies turkey has against Israel. I mean...

Oh, seems like the cat is out of the bag!

No, my dear, I couldn't give two flying fucks about yet another Islamic nation having problems with Israel. In fact, I would be more disturbed by an Islamic nation having good ties with Israel, it could cause a false state of euphoria.
But, as a European (Because yes, I do have my European citizenship), with business and investments in Europe, I am against any poor nation joining in and ruining my income. Just like I am all for throwing Spain and Greece out, and how I was against several other nations joining.