GC has no intention of fixing pets when it comes to mechanical buffs

[Durumu]

Just kill the Boss once, every Hunter who has 16/16hc know it...

I am 16/16H. I have no idea what you are talking about resorting to saying blank statements because you were proven wrong.

[Nemesis003]

Just kill the Boss once, every Hunter who has 16/16hc know it...

i have killed her a number of time... i can put snake trap and explosive trap int he same spot and watch them trigger and the snakes do nothing.

[Deleted]

wow you are just not able to grasp what is being said... No other class will be FORCED to be limited by a pet. Locks have the ability to sac their pet, Mages will be fire or arcane to not have a pet, DKs will simply go frost if the pet puts them at a disadvantage.

Can you still not understand this concept. THERE IS NO HUNTER SPEC THAT PETS YOU GET RID OF YOUR PET. If you don't understand that please just don't post as you are not cappable of providing anything to this thread.

Starting to argue for the sake of arguing now I reckon. His points about some pets being optional ''But not really'' were pretty much solid. The fact that they can ''get rid of their pet if they want to do less DPS but hunters can't even choose'' is academic really.

[Durumu]

Starting to argue for the sake of arguing now I reckon. His points about some pets being optional ''But not really'' were pretty much solid. The fact that they can ''get rid of their pet if they want to do less DPS but hunters can't even choose'' is academic really.

Your post makes no sense. The things you are quoting haven't even been said by anyone in this thread. Getting rid of their pet is a dps increase for warlocks, dks, and mages atm, so idk what you are talking about there. Academic? Which part of academic do you mean? There are many definitions of academic, but none of said definitions are really pertinent to the discussion.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 12:19 AM ----------

Also normally when you quote things it means that is what they said not that is what they said with the meaning of what the meant changed and then paraphrased.

[Durumu]

Just kill the Boss once....

I have. 7 times. Again, why bring up asking us to kill the boss if you know we have already killed it? You have too much pride to admit that snake trap doesn't do anything?

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 12:27 AM ----------

Eh quoting the wrong one. Who the hell did talk to you? Oh, nvm stop using 2accounts, thanks.

2 accounts? What are you talking about? If we were the same person you'd see a pattern in our grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, and spelling but there obviously isn't one. You just don't want to be wrong and are too mad about it.

[Deleted]

You dont have to believe me. Most people know it (and use it).

Also I killed Lei-Shen HC. I dont link any armory, but I still killed it. Like totally!

P.S: Go LFR, check it. After you did, you can edit all your posts. But dont worry, I took screenshots, since its pretty funny.

Ehm, since when does progress have ANY relevance to this discussion? You just sound mad because you have the burden of proof.

[Durumu]

You dont have to believe me. Most people know it (and use it).

Also I killed Lei-Shen HC. I dont link any armory, but I still killed it. Like totally!

Oh no no no. I know how this works. I link my armory and you try to find anything wrong with it and then try to attempt an ad hominem on top of all the other ad hominem's you've already tried doing.

Just try to provide sufficient evidence supporting your claim then you don't have to commit to trying to use argument enhancers that have no significance. Most people use it because otherwise you would just be sitting there doing nothing, so there is no reason not to plop it down where the tanks will drag her after the hide phase since snake traps don't work during the hide phase.

[Shakari]

H-Will, H-Garalon, H-Protectors, to name 3. Your argument is also invalid because we're not talking "unfair," we're talking about an actual mechanic of the class gimping us artificially. A good melee can compete on non-melee friendly fights. So can a good ranged. I cannot compete on H-Protectors as a hunter. In fact, as one of our strategy people, I specifically said I should be sat, unless we literally had no one else. There is a difference between "Man, it's hard for a melee on that fight" to "Man, I do 15% less damage on this fight regardless of how difficult I find it."

This isn't even a thread about overall hunter balance. We top maybe one fight this tier, H-Vizier, because of the high mobility needed and us being the best mobile, ranged class. This is a thread about mechanics not applying to 15% of our damage which we can't substitute out.

Not that I disagree totally with anything you have said but there seems to be contradiction in the statements.

A melee unfriendly fight will reduce the effectiveness of melee dps by a large amount regardless of player ability and is also an artifical enforced mechanic to hinder melee and is the same as this issue with the hunters pets, Neither will be able to compete in these scenario's and thats intentional I should think, or they would not be labled as melee unfriendly or ranged/hunter etc unfriendly they would just be challenging fights for all classes. Generally how hard you personally find that fight has no relevance.

And this obsession with "topping the dps" on fights is a bit ridiculous, you do realize that one every fight 10 classes will not finish 1st. As long as you do reasonable dps for your class in a said fight thats all that matters, if its slightly less for a few fights due to mechanics then thats how the design is. If your guild is so hardcore as to bench you unless your at the top of the dps meters then I can#t see the huge issue.

[Durumu]

Its revelant since we gone offtopic for the snake traps.

Anyway, do what you want. You dont have to use it. Its a tip for people who did no kill lei shi yet.

It's not relevant to the discussion about lei shi snake traps, that's for sure. Just swallow your pride man.

[Deleted]

And this obsession with "topping the dps" on fights is a bit ridiculous, you do realize that one every fight 10 classes will not finish 1st. As long as you do reasonable dps for your class in a said fight thats all that matters, if its slightly less for a few fights due to mechanics then thats how the design is. If your guild is so hardcore as to bench you unless your at the top of the dps meters then I can#t see the huge issue.

Here's the thing though, on fights where you want to kill the boss before he goes enrage, and you got all the buffs/debuffs covered, then why bring a class (Assuming you got others to switch with) which doesn't do enough damage in the time before the boss goes enrage compared to one that does?

So, while yes, you don't always have to top dps on all the fights, but on fights with tight enrage timer, and if those also have mechanics that favor some classes above others then you won't bring the bad classes, especially if you're doing them while going for world/server #1.

[Durumu]

Its revelant since we gone offtopic for the snake traps.

Anyway, do what you want. You dont have to use it. Its a tip for people who did no kill lei shi yet.


P.S: Kill the boss once & you'll understand


Ya, its totally not important.

Ok, this "kill the boss" thing is getting old. Can you please just stop? You said snake traps worked then I proved they didn't and you just keep on trying to argue. Can we just stop please?

[Deleted]

P.S: Kill the boss once & you'll understand

I have killed the boss. It STILL doesn't change FACTS...

[Jawless Jones]

isnt it because they didnt want hunters double dipping with that protectors buff?

im not particularly learned in the way of the hunter, but dont pets scale with the hunters haste as well?

[Nemesis003]

Not that I disagree totally with anything you have said but there seems to be contradiction in the statements.

A melee unfriendly fight will reduce the effectiveness of melee dps by a large amount regardless of player ability and is also an artifical enforced mechanic to hinder melee and is the same as this issue with the hunters pets, Neither will be able to compete in these scenario's and thats intentional I should think, or they would not be labled as melee unfriendly or ranged/hunter etc unfriendly they would just be challenging fights for all classes. Generally how hard you personally find that fight has no relevance.

And this obsession with "topping the dps" on fights is a bit ridiculous, you do realize that one every fight 10 classes will not finish 1st. As long as you do reasonable dps for your class in a said fight thats all that matters, if its slightly less for a few fights due to mechanics then thats how the design is. If your guild is so hardcore as to bench you unless your at the top of the dps meters then I can#t see the huge issue.

you are not grasping the issue like so many others. This is not an issue on 1 fight, we gave 1 fight as a solid example. The issue is ANY TIME there is a boss mechanic that provides a raid wide buff to the raid, hunter pets do not get it.

So to change the fight seeing how everyone is stuck on protectors. Take a fight that even terrible pugs can do, Heroic Stone Guards. The tile buff adds 1% increased damage and 1% increased spirit for every tile activated. Pets do not get that buff, this making hunters less effective then everyone on that fight. They are no only weak on that fight because it is a cleave fight and hunters have no cleave, but on top of that hunters are limited by being forced to use a pet that gets no benefit from the mechanics of the boss.

This is unique to hunters because warlocks, DK, Mages all get more DPS by NOT USING A PET. Im not sayin only fix hunter pets no class should be limited by their class in this way, what i am saying is every other class has a way to avoid the limitation of the pet not working correctly.


All i am saying is how long do you think that kinda of limitation would last if it was warrior who got 15-50% less of a boost from a DPS mechanic on a boss simply because they were warrior. Or they made half the bosses in 5.2 take 30% less damage from all warlocks simply because they were warlocks or because it was the devs being lazy.

Its just pathetic that the player base think its one fight, or that ts ok for a class not to be perfect on every fight. However they are simply too damn stupid to realize that its a broken issue within the game and they are no top end players so they simply don't care and because of that they have no idea how big of a deal it really is. If you are not smart enough to comprehend that its not simply one fight or if you are not good enough to realize this has a pretty big effect on high end progression simply don't post you only make yourself look bad.


This thread has already seen low end ignorant players get proven wrong on multiple issues. If you doubt my progression i have linked my armory in the thread. Its an issue all pet classes face but only one of theos classes cannot work around it.

The personal attacks have gotten old, people claiming crap then saying "i don't post my armory" and other such troll. I do not care if you are a LFR hero, but simply because the issue is not something that effects you doesn't mean its not important. The issue is a big one especially for high end hunters that want to keep their guild in the world top 100. Hell it should matter to any hunter simply because you class is weaken simply because blizzard suck at their job.

[Durumu]

isnt it because they didnt want hunters double dipping with that protectors buff?

im not particularly learned in the way of the hunter, but dont pets scale with the hunters haste as well?

If the pet inherits the damage buff it would basically be the same on that fight. Now with some other stuff, it would double dip a lot. % damage is different than % stats etc.

---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:15 AM ----------

You did pick a log, where the hunter did not use snake trap.

If im totally wrong, explain me this: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mb9oc...344&target=158

Snake trap wasn't used on that fight. What's your point?

[Nemesis003]

isnt it because they didnt want hunters double dipping with that protectors buff?

im not particularly learned in the way of the hunter, but dont pets scale with the hunters haste as well?

dude you obviously have no idea what the issue is, so just don't post. This is not about haste... its not about double dipping. Pets do not inherit mechanical percentage based buffs so hunters get a lesser version of the buff then everyoen else because it does not effect our pets damage, and even as SV or BM your pets damage can be up to 20% of your total damage and as BM you total pet damage can be upwards of 60% of your total damage.

So the issue is saying a class just gets to have only 80% of their damage buffed when everyone else gets 100%.

[Deleted]

You did pick a log, where the hunter did not use snake trap.

If im totally wrong, explain me this: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mb9oc...344&target=158 (ignore the 4th hide, since I did not use a snake trap there).

If you prove me wrong with this log, I'll admit, I was wrong.

Ehm...? It shows the hidden Lei Shi have taken damage from a warrior, mage, rogue, warlock and a priest. Nothing from a pet and/or a hunter.

[Nemesis003]

You did pick a log, where the hunter did not use snake trap.

If im totally wrong, explain me this: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mb9oc...344&target=158 (ignore the 4th hide, since we did not use a snake trap there).

Unknown in the logs are the stampede pets (since even WoL isnt perfect).

If you prove me wrong with this log, I'll admit, I was wrong.

i'll prove you wrong. First off there are 2 lei shits when you fight lei shi, the one you see then there is the "hidden" lei shi. If you look int he log to everyone that can hit the hidden lei shi with an ability that does not require a target like fan of knives or reign of fire. When you look at the break down of that spill there are 2 targets that it hits. The hidden lei shit and the one you see. If you look at each of the snakes they only hit the lei shi that you can see. You know that is the one you can see because when you look at that lei shes attacks it does both spray and get away, the hidden one only casts spray.

The snakes CANNOT hit the hidden lei shi because like any other melee auto attack it must have a target. The snake are simply attacking Lei shi when she exits hide, that is why they have hits on her.

[Durumu]

Well, it was. Its my log.


Ya, check the 1st, 2nd & 3rd Hide Damage.
Maybe combare it with a Log provided from Durumu: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...110&target=260

I don't get it. This went from snakes being the best thing on lei shi to damage spread? What is the point you are trying to make? Snake traps don't work. Or is there anything else you are trying to say? I can't read your mind, put it on paper.

[Durumu]

Its probably now hard to understand for you, but Snake Traps do work & they dont work.
Yes, they dont anything direct (aka no hits) but they still let Lei Shi getting out of hide in <5seconds.
Proof? Its hard to see, but check our 2nd Hide. Our Mage did 75k Damage; 3x Arcane Explosions & she did come it. Nobody else did something (besides me throwing a snake trap).

Your warrior also did shockwave and thunderclap, your lock did rain of fire and your rogue did fan of knives. They don't work man, just accept it.