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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    on my server epics regularly go for 20k at the low end to 70k at high end.
    Which server is that?

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    I am going on the assumption that you want rep for gear so here again are alternatives.................crafted gear and LFR, and if you don't do normal raids I have no clue what you even need with raid level gear to begin with, and again love the bunny.
    You can easily have bad RNG in raids and in LFR. Depending on the server buying gear can be VERY expensive and some people believe or not aren't very good at getting gold. What is a good way to make up for that, dailies. If there is good gear out there to get and it doesn't require RNG, people are gonna feel like they need to get that gear, to progress their character, to try to get help their raid team as much as they can. Are they mandatory for raiding, no of course not. However for some people, you have to convince them to sit on their "bad gear" and ignore dailies and hope that gear drops for them in their raid. To these people, dailies feel mandatory, they feel like they need to keep up.

  3. #323
    So after so many pages, I still wonder how are 5.2 dailies supposed to feel less "mandatory" in regard to Charms. Except for constant arguing about meaning of "mandatory", and all those great stories how X got 16/16H without touching dailies and totally didn't gimp his raid by doing so.

  4. #324
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    It took me about a month to hit exalted with all the daily reputations.
    I did every daily quest, every day.
    It was a huge pain that ended quickly.
    I don't know if they are meant to be mandatory, but damn, do they feel like they are.

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    So after so many pages, I still wonder how are 5.2 dailies supposed to feel less "mandatory" in regard to Charms. Except for constant arguing about meaning of "mandatory", and all those great stories how X got 16/16H without touching dailies and totally didn't gimp his raid by doing so.
    they are mandatory depending on what is your objective in game, if you wanna the charms for the bonus roll you need to do the new daily.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    Yes this is exactly the problem. People are splitting hairs and getting out their dictinaries in a sad attempt to not look foolish.

    For months people reposted Blizzards daily doctrine "it is not mandatory, just don't do them". While people like me predicted that this wont last long, that they will change the system in place. And now they are doing it. You wanna know why I knew that? Because at the end of Cataclysm Blizzard themselves said that dailies aren't that much fun and that doing them took too much time.
    The reason why they still went ahead and made dailies more important than ever in this expansion was because they wanted to slow players down and avoid an early exodus. Question remains if they were successful or if it backfired.

    And now to you trolls and fanboys. You were wrong all along, the new system has flaws and Blizzard admits it. You can go ahead and keep your dictionary open and grasp at definitions. But the fact remains that you lost and you can't deal with it.

    Nothing in this game was ever mandatory. But in the past they always changed systems because they felt that they were too rewarding and it pushed players into one direction. In wotlk it was tabards and I never heard anyone cry about them (especially since there were enough dailies out there). And this and they fully well knew it would backfire.
    Exactly, why can't people see dailies were only there to slow players down and doing daily hubs was a low budget/quick way of doing it. I wonder if any of the devs actually did the damn dailies everyday for 2 weeks and had "fun". Fact is they implemented a boring system to unlock valor gear and now they realise they are losing players because of it.

    If they wanted to do a quick way of slowing players down they should of done an epic quest line for each faction which didn't involve repeating the same quests on a daily basis.

  7. #327
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baikalsan View Post
    For months people reposted Blizzards daily doctrine "it is not mandatory, just don't do them".
    And they still follow that opinion, nothing changed.

    Dailies are not mandatory at all.
    The sad part is that Blizzard thought they could educate the dumb masses.
    They actually believed they could teach people that optional stuff is optional.
    But the QQ'ers ignored that and kept crying the same phrase over and over "I AM FORCED TO DO DAILIES!".

    That's why they said this, which comes down to: "Dailies are not forced, but whiners feel forced."

    And now to you trolls and fanboys. You were wrong all along, the new system has flaws and Blizzard admits it. You can go ahead and keep your dictionary open and grasp at definitions. But the fact remains that you lost and you can't deal with it.
    Why are people wrong? You were never forced to do dailies.
    They simply catered to the QQ because people aren't intelligent enough to understand what optional means.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerodyne View Post
    Four 476 items from Scenarios?!

    Didn't even realize you could get anything from scenarios. I've done loads and only got gold. You must be lucky or I am really unlucky.

    On topic: I don't have time for organised raiding anymore, so I just do LFR. Dailies definitely were mandatory to me. I'm not content running one MSV LFR per week, and then logging off. The game needs another way to get gear. It used to be heroic dungeons in TBC, then rep in Wotlk and Cata, and it's still rep now, it's just that the rep is gated behind dailies AND VP.

    Seriously in terms of "progressing your character" dailies are mandatory. You don't have to do them, true, but what else are you going to do when you log in? Other than LFR there's nothing to do that makes your character more powerful. That's the problem. For people that hate daily quests (and I can totally see why), it is a real problem.[COLOR="red"]
    The epics you earned in TBC dungeons were way lower items level than the raiding ones, so I dont think they are comparable

    And if you say you don't have time for raiding... well can you expect to get the sam gear as (normal mode) raiders get? Absosoutely not

  9. #329
    The "youre not forced" is such a fallacy

    The game rewards time investment with advantages. You could of course raid or pvp naked without gear and enchants but the disadvantage could hardly be offset by player skill.
    This dailys or any other repetitive grind are part of the invest time to gain advantages parkour. Sure you dont need to, but if you accept playing with a handicap in what is supposed to be a competition then why bother at all?

  10. #330
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasoncb View Post
    If they wanted to do a quick way of slowing players down they should of done an epic quest line for each faction which didn't involve repeating the same quests on a daily basis.
    I agree with you, but for some reason the current WoW dev team seems to hate epic quest lines with a passion. They gutted every single one in Azeroth when they did the revamp, Wrath had a bare handful, and I don't recall any in Cata, except maybe the legendary quests.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonard McCoy View Post
    It happened just like hard dungeons again man. History repeats itself. It was a divisive issue. People gave them feedback, they ignored it or insisted their position was correct. I still expect a blog about it. Fans defended them. They began to acknowledge it was a problem and then eventually they will abandon it. It would have been sooooooooooo much simpler if everyone just got on fucking board on the same page and petitioned them to do something about it. Cataclysm 2.0 folks.
    Theres little actually wrong with the system they have.

    Their problem was:

    Valor is too difficult to get. It takes a lot of work to get 1000 VPs. It doesn't feel rewarding. The upside is that going for the valor cap gives you enough to do each week. The other downside is that you can burn out and get fed up with repeating content.

    The rep lock was unnecessary. Especially when you needed so many reputations.

    Dailies also provided Lesser Charms. They are the main source, by far, of this.

    So:-
    Dailies were seen as mandatory, so they became a chore rather than fun.
    They were too similar with not enough variation some players got fed up with them very quickly.
    They required a lot of work, esepcially at lower gear levels - worse, it was the same kind of work that the early dungeons had in Cata; MoBs needed to be grinded due to health. It took so long to burn them they moved from fun right into irritating.
    There was little option or alternate paths. Even after cappign valor with raids and dungeons, dailies were needed for Lesser charms and Rep to get the gear so even capping valor didn't free you from the need to do dailies. You could really only spend VP if you had the rep. And to get the rep, you did dailies.
    The Golden Lotus dailies especially were poorly planned. Some of the Shado-Pan dailies were also poor.

    The baisc idea itself is fine. There is just too much reliance on what should be one pathway, and too much use of the system simply to create a time sink. Blizzards already changed some of the worst elements of the system for the better.

    EJL

  12. #332
    Bloodsail Admiral Shadee's Avatar
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    About time you notice blizz, only took you several months GG

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    And they still follow that opinion, nothing changed.

    Dailies are not mandatory at all.
    The sad part is that Blizzard thought they could educate the dumb masses.
    They actually believed they could teach people that optional stuff is optional.
    But the QQ'ers ignored that and kept crying the same phrase over and over "I AM FORCED TO DO DAILIES!".

    That's why they said this, which comes down to: "Dailies are not forced, but whiners feel forced."


    Why are people wrong? You were never forced to do dailies.
    They simply catered to the QQ because people aren't intelligent enough to understand what optional means.
    Maybe the "dumb masses" have taught Blizzard the meaning of the word optional in respect of the subscription fee.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    And they still follow that opinion, nothing changed.

    Dailies are not mandatory at all.
    The sad part is that Blizzard thought they could educate the dumb masses.
    They actually believed they could teach people that optional stuff is optional.
    But the QQ'ers ignored that and kept crying the same phrase over and over "I AM FORCED TO DO DAILIES!".

    That's why they said this, which comes down to: "Dailies are not forced, but whiners feel forced."


    Why are people wrong? You were never forced to do dailies.
    They simply catered to the QQ because people aren't intelligent enough to understand what optional means.
    It is never a good idea to ignore customer feedback and an even worse idea to outright claim that the customer is wrong with that feedback. You would have thought that after doing almost exactly the same thing two years ago with a cost of several hundred million dollars to their business Blizzard would have learnt their lesson. But, of course, you're right it is the customer that is not intelligent enough to get this, it is just a shame for Blizzard that they are just about able to workout how to click cancel subscription.

  15. #335
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    Maybe the "dumb masses" have taught Blizzard the meaning of the word optional in respect of the subscription fee.
    No the dumb masses proved that Blizzard can't put challenge into their game anymore or optional content because the dumb masses want everything now so they can complain about lack of things to do and how Blizzard sucks because they aren't giving new content fast enough.

  16. #336
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It is never a good idea to ignore customer feedback and an even worse idea to outright claim that the customer is wrong with that feedback. You would have thought that after doing almost exactly the same thing two years ago with a cost of several hundred million dollars to their business Blizzard would have learnt their lesson. But, of course, you're right it is the customer that is not intelligent enough to get this, it is just a shame for Blizzard that they are just about able to workout how to click cancel subscription.
    Did you see patch 5.2?
    They don't ignore customer feedback, even though I believe those customers are wrong.

    Don't get me wrong! I despise dailies and simply refuse to do them.
    That's why I disagree with the opinion that "you are forced to do dailies".
    I am having fun and can enter all raids without touching those terrible dailies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Attsey View Post
    Maybe the "dumb masses" have taught Blizzard the meaning of the word optional in respect of the subscription fee.
    Huh? Care to explain that..?
    Because at the moment it doesn't make any sense.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    No the dumb masses proved that Blizzard can't put challenge into their game anymore or optional content because the dumb masses want everything now so they can complain about lack of things to do and how Blizzard sucks because they aren't giving new content fast enough.
    Don't use words "challenge" together with "daily quests". They aren't challenging. They are repetitive, boring and trivial to do. They don't require any skills, class specific or not, they don't require cooperation, they only require time.

    And what makes you think that only "dumb masses" complain about it? I know that pretty much entire guild of mine didn't like the idea, even though we consider ourselves pretty hardcore (not world first crowd, naturally, but decent enough to finish all h content before next patch). I know that other guilds on our realm weren't pleased either. I know that reaching revered with Golden Lotus was a giant sigh of relief for everyone... and that need to farm Charms again is annoying the hell out of me.

    But hey, we're just whining unwashed masses that can't appreciate "the challenge" in daily quests. Teach us, Enlightened One.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Did you see patch 5.2?
    I am having fun and can enter all raids without touching those terrible dailies.
    See my problem is I can't. I've had terrible RNG luck with LFR epics and 5 man epics. I've honestly never even see a 5 man epic yet. I still don't believe scenario epics exist. My only option is to farm 300 heroic dungeons to gather enough JP to bring my ilevel to 470 through item upgrades at 1500 JP a pop so I can enter HoF and Terrace LFR. It's sad but the distance from MSV LFR to HoF LFR without being in a raiding guild is too wide for the casual player (who keep in mind, make up the majority of the playerbase.) I have all this VP but nothing to spend it on because no reputations are unlocked... That is why their stance is changed.
    Last edited by ro9ue; 2013-03-02 at 06:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    I like turtles. I would like turtle-based tier sets. I would like a turtle shell helmet, and perhaps a cheeseburger backpack and a chestpiece that simply places a red gemstone on my bellybutton.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Did you see patch 5.2?
    They don't ignore customer feedback, even though I believe those customers are wrong.

    Don't get me wrong! I despise dailies and simply refuse to do them.
    That's why I disagree with the opinion that "you are forced to do dailies".
    I am having fun and can enter all raids without touching those terrible dailies.



    Huh? Care to explain that..?
    Because at the moment it doesn't make any sense.
    They have spent the past few months telling anyone that said that they feel that they have to do dailies that they are wrong it is only in the past week they have acknowledged that there may be a problem. If that is not ignoring customer feedback then what is it?

  20. #340
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    They have spent the past few months telling anyone that said that they feel that they have to do dailies that they are wrong it is only in the past week they have acknowledged that there may be a problem. If that is not ignoring customer feedback then what is it?
    No, they haven't said that.

    When a person says he feels like he is being forced to do dailies, they answered that he shouldn't feel like that because we have other options.
    When a customer claimed that they are being forced to do dailies, they told him he was wrong.

    See the difference?
    That's not ignoring customer feedback..

    Quote Originally Posted by Klog View Post
    See my problem is I can't. I've had terrible RNG luck with LFR epics and 5 man epics. I've honestly never even see a 5 man epic yet. I still don't believe scenario epics exist. My only option is to farm 300 heroic dungeons to gather enough JP to bring my ilevel to 470 through item upgrades at 1500 JP a pop so I can enter HoF and Terrace LFR. It's sad but the distance from MSV LFR to HoF LFR without being in a raiding guild is too wide for the casual player (who keep in mind, make up the majority of the playerbase.) I have all this VP but nothing to spend it on because no reputations are unlocked... That is why their stance is changed.
    I haven't found a dungeon/scenario-epic either.
    And my LFR-luck sucks too

    But you only need 460 to get into LFR.
    And yes, you might have to farm more and you might not 'progress' as fast as everyone else.
    When 5.1 came I was still doing the 5.0-raids for 4 weeks.
    And only one hour ago have I achieved my 480-gear for 5.2.
    It's the price I pay for chosing not to do dailies.

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