[US] Nurse refuses to perform CPR

[Deleted]

It is if you perform CPR, they die anyway, and the autopsy shows that you caused substantial damage to the patient.

More damage than a heart attack that was fatal anyway?

[Catta]

Not true lol.

If you are performing CPR it is because their heart has stopped. Unless you get it moving again they will continue to be dead.

[Tierbook]

Well if you see her having a crushed skull then you really performed it improperly but fractured ribs are common especially in old people who have the cartilage of the sternum pretty calcified. So im not really sure as to how substantial it can be.

well lets see do you want to die of internal bleeding or a heart attack, or whatever the old lady died from, i would i imagine slow and painful is a less valued option than fast and mostly painless

[jonoy8]

It has fuck all to do with being a hero and more to do with watching someone die knowing you can save their life. I am just glad you wont get sued for it here, it is fucked up to sue for saving a life.

you don't know what you're talking about, I bet some of you have never even been in a nursing home

There's people in my home that are this womans ages who are bed ridden, can't feed themselves, crap themselves, senile and talk jibberish,

death is a relief for these people, I would be more inhumane to actually keep this person alive out of some perverted idea of maintaing life

you're all making assumptions and you know nothing of this womans medical history.

[Tierbook]

If you are performing CPR it is because their heart has stopped. Unless you get it moving again they will continue to be dead.

if you perform it improperly they die and you are sued, if your perform it properly they may live or may die of injuries from the attempt and you will be sued for even more, if you do nothing in a situation such as this you die and the other person is not sued

[Tuskcat]

Not that I'm defending the policy, but I read not long ago that most elderly CPR recipients receive broken ribcages and little else.

I'm not defending the nurse or the policy... I'm just stating there might be a reason for said policy.

not even remotely true
CPR is huge in saving some ones life if their heart stops even if you just do compressions you're keeping blood flow to the brain for the 5-15 minutes paramedics/emt's take to get there then it's up to AED to start thier heart again

if you perform it improperly they die and you are sued, if your perform it properly they may live or may die of injuries from the attempt and you will be sued for even more, if you do nothing in a situation such as this you die and the other person is not sued

it is impossible to kill them because you did something wrong cause guess what? they are already dead! like he said they will continue to be dead if you do nothing. no you are not going to restart thier heart 99 times out of a 100 but you will keep blood flowing to thier braid so when EMT's come with a AED they can't restart their heart and they will stop being dead. plus most if not all states have good Samaritan laws

[Catta]

well lets see do you want to die of internal bleeding or a heart attack, or whatever the old lady died from, i would i imagine slow and painful is a less valued option than fast and mostly painless

You can survive and recover from internal bleeding. You cant survive and recover from extended death. The notion that you seem to want to CHOOSE whose life is worth living is very arrogant.

[Deleted]

you don't know what you're talking about, I bet some of you have never even been in a nursing home

There's people in my home that are this womans ages who are bed ridden, can't feed themselves, crap themselves, senile and talk jibberish,

death is a relief for these people, I would be more inhumane to actually keep this person alive out of some perverted idea of maintaing life

you're all making assumptions and you know nothing of this womans medical history.

If they want death, they can do it themselves, but I am not going to watch while they die. If they truly want to die, do it when I am not in the room. I am sick of seeing people die.

[Jaynith]

If you are performing CPR it is because their heart has stopped. Unless you get it moving again they will continue to be dead.

You arent trained in CPR are you? The location that you perform the chest compressions is very specific, and that particular location MINIMIZES the damage done to the sternum/ribs. Any deviation from that location results in far more broken bones/possible internal bleeding. So yes, you can perform it improperly and NOT result in death.

[Catta]

you don't know what you're talking about, I bet some of you have never even been in a nursing home

There's people in my home that are this womans ages who are bed ridden, can't feed themselves, crap themselves, senile and talk jibberish,

death is a relief for these people, I would be more inhumane to actually keep this person alive out of some perverted idea of maintaing life

you're all making assumptions and you know nothing of this womans medical history.

Its a pretty big assumption for you to make that she would prefer death over life.

[Kasierith]

Well if you see her having a crushed skull then you really performed it improperly but fractured ribs are common especially in old people who have the cartilage of the sternum pretty calcified. So im not really sure as to how substantial it can be.

Proper CPR requires 100 beats per minute. All with substantial force to stimulate the heart. If CPR is gentle, you aren't doing it properly.

More damage than a heart attack that was fatal anyway?

Doesn't have to be more damage for a lawsuit to brew over it. I don't agree with this mentality at all, but I've made sure to know enough to keep myself safe legally. It's.... slightly abominable the effect that lawsuits have had on medical treatment, but it's something that's out of my hands.

[Frozenbeef]

Can anyone remember:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILxjxfB4zNk

that's the only cpr training i have :S

[Catta]

You arent trained in CPR are you? The location that you perform the chest compressions is very specific, and that particular location MINIMIZES the damage done to the sternum/ribs. Any deviation from that location results in far more broken bones/possible internal bleeding. So yes, you can perform it improperly and NOT result in death.

Im trained in CPR and I am in Med School. You talk as if the CPR is done on a living person. If you are performing CPR it is because their heart has stopped. If it has not stopped you shouldnt be using CPR on them.

[Krekko]

<Good Samaritan sued after rescuing a woman in road accident>

Reminds me of this scene from The Incredibles, where Mr Incredible gets sued.

It's a sad world we live in where people so desperately and willingly sue people trying to help them. Doctors and nurses are at risk for losing their jobs and medical licenses for just simply helping people.

[Tierbook]

You can survive and recover from internal bleeding. You cant survive and recover from extended death. The notion that you seem to want to CHOOSE whose life is worth living is very arrogant.

Ya because old people are known for their bodies ability to heal from internal wounds and broken bones, they may recover but it will be grueling and painful and yet again the lady had the thing that stated no CPR could be used on her i imagine there was a reason for that

[Maelle]

Can anyone remember:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILxjxfB4zNk

that's the only cpr training i have :S

I remember those super-creepy plastic heads and torsos we had at school once to practice on, which the thought of all those other people breathing and salivating on made me queasy (even though they did wipe them off after every person ofc)

[jonoy8]

If they want death, they can do it themselves, but I am not going to watch while they die. If they truly want to die, do it when I am not in the room. I am sick of seeing people die.

how the hell can a woman choose death for herself who is incapable of doing anything for herself without assistance.

this forum is so dumb it hurts my brain

[Wilian]

Logic would dictate that if there was DNR going on, it would've been told to the fella on the other end of the phone-line, instead of having him/her begging them to find someone to do it.

[Catta]

Proper CPR requires 100 beats per minute. All with substantial force to stimulate the heart. If CPR is gentle, you aren't doing it properly.



Doesn't have to be more damage for a lawsuit to brew over it. I don't agree with this mentality at all, but I've made sure to know enough to keep myself safe legally. It's.... slightly abominable the effect that lawsuits have had on medical treatment, but it's something that's out of my hands.

Its ridiculous. Family friend of mine is a Purser and he says that whenever they have sick passengers and need a doctor they have to hand out waivers to the American ones saying the company takes full responsibility before they will make themselves known.

[Laize]

Yea, a broken rib cage is preferable to a bad case of being dead.

We are told continuously that you cannot do anything to harm them if their heart stops so no need to worry about breaking things

I understand that a bad case of dead is worse than a broken rib cage, but what of quality of life? How well would a 90 year old woman heal from such an injury? You're the medical student. You tell me.