1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Davoo2080's Avatar
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    5.2 simcraft spec comparison

    I've seen these before every major patch but haven't been able to find one for 5.2 which is coming out tomorrow. Does anyone know where to find it?

  2. #2
    I don't think they finished writing the script for patch 5.2. If you want to run your own sims there are some PTR options on the last versions of sim 510. (I think they're up to sim 510-12.)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Davoo2080 View Post
    I've seen these before every major patch but haven't been able to find one for 5.2 which is coming out tomorrow. Does anyone know where to find it?
    Build 12 is out right now, which has the last PTR info on it (you can toggle the setting from Live to PTR in the options).

    There's no official patch 5.2 release build right now, but there also wasn't any new changes since the last PTR build, so that should be the newest.

  4. #4
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    It's always been useless for any form of accurate spec comparisons anyway.

  5. #5
    sims are pretty useless considering their results mean you perform flawless rotation on a single target without moving an inch (doesn't apply to all classes)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    sims are pretty useless considering their results mean you perform flawless rotation on a single target without moving an inch (doesn't apply to all classes)
    That doesn't make it useless, it just means you need to know this and take into account when looking at the data.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    That doesn't make it useless, it just means you need to know this and take into account when looking at the data.
    I'd rather use raidbots once we get the data from ToT there.

  8. #8
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    I'd rather use raidbots once we get the data from ToT there.
    Raidbots is probably even worse than simcraft for that purpose... Definitely worse past week two or three.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Raidbots is probably even worse than simcraft for that purpose... Definitely worse past week two or three.
    Worldoflogs must be useless too then.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Worldoflogs must be useless too then.
    I don't think any of these tools is useless. You just have to know the context. Worldoflogs is great, but DPS is in most cases not the most important number in a fight and that's what a lot of people forget. It's great for analysing and maybe comparing people ROUGHLY.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Zyphenz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    Worldoflogs must be useless too then.
    For some fights its pretty useless yes. Considering there will be a few fights where multidot classes/multitarget classes will just cheese everything they possibly can. Leading up to insane top 100 DPS (which also makes raidbots worthless).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphenz View Post
    For some fights its pretty useless yes. Considering there will be a few fights where multidot classes/multitarget classes will just cheese everything they possibly can. Leading up to insane top 100 DPS (which also makes raidbots worthless).
    That's exactly the point why raidbots is superior. You don't look for summary and compare classes that way, you look for individual boss performances. Your so called "cheesing" isn't a negative, it's a positive that gives a reason to bring a class that's inferior in calculated sims.

  13. #13
    Stop using the word "worthless", none of it is worthless. Data is always good, you just need to understand the data.

    Parses, so both WoL and raidbots, have huge issues with sampling bias creating a large disparity between specs, for example.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    sims are pretty useless considering their results mean you perform flawless rotation on a single target without moving an inch (doesn't apply to all classes)
    I think you have no clue how Simcraft works at all then mate. Nothing worse then people spreading wrong information. Please look at all the options Simcraft gives you and have some knowledge before you come to a forum to post.

    You can check different styles of fights from raid dummy, light movement, heavy movement to even a Patchwerk style.

    You can check Player Skill for different skill levels from Elite, Good and Average that takes rotation into consideration.

  15. #15
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    Stop using the word "worthless", none of it is worthless. Data is always good, you just need to understand the data.

    Parses, so both WoL and raidbots, have huge issues with sampling bias creating a large disparity between specs, for example.
    If data is inherently incorrect and misleading, then no it isn't always good.

    Also people stop attempting to defend helter-skelter. It's never been comparable to any fight either.

    And last time I used the player skill function the lower skill levels did up to 8k higher than elite, that did about 1k more than good.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Secrecy View Post
    Stop using the word "worthless", none of it is worthless. Data is always good, you just need to understand the data.

    Parses, so both WoL and raidbots, have huge issues with sampling bias creating a large disparity between specs, for example.
    This.

    Having real data logged from the fight is NEVER worthless.

    Source:
    Business Intelligence Software Engineer

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullarkie View Post
    This.

    Having real data logged from the fight is NEVER worthless.

    Source:
    Business Intelligence Software Engineer
    Yeah not sure how people can say WoL is useless when you can use it to go into the fight and find out exactly how the best dps of your spec/class is able to pull those numbers and then mimic him and beat his dps (provided the stars align).

    People simply put way to much faith on sim being the end-all, its one wave in a sea, and blizzard does not listen to sims at all (however they will look at parses and GC has claimed to use raidbots for data).

    Sims can be good to re-work reforging and stat weights, but I wouldn't put a ton of weight on what class they say does most dmg. Boomkins currently sim at bottom dps last I checked but all ptr testing is showing boomkins as one of the top dps atm.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Harekrsna View Post
    Yeah not sure how people can say WoL is useless when you can use it to go into the fight and find out exactly how the best dps of your spec/class is able to pull those numbers and then mimic him and beat his dps (provided the stars align).

    People simply put way to much faith on sim being the end-all, its one wave in a sea, and blizzard does not listen to sims at all (however they will look at parses and GC has claimed to use raidbots for data).

    Sims can be good to re-work reforging and stat weights, but I wouldn't put a ton of weight on what class they say does most dmg. Boomkins currently sim at bottom dps last I checked but all ptr testing is showing boomkins as one of the top dps atm.
    I can't believe that Blizzard don't use sims, they probably just have their own internal tools that are far more accurate.

  19. #19
    Sims are not useless. They give a certain kind of information, you need to know what of it you can use. It is not very good at comparing max damage from specs against each others for one. However it is good to find out if doing someting different about your rotation would be a dps increase.

    Raid bots is not always useless. Yes the players who "cheese" the numbers get up there, however it can still show the average capability of a spec's "cheesing" abilities and stuff like that. And on pure singletarget fights the numbers can atually be quite true.

    World of Logs is not useless at all. The top100 parses function is basically the same as raid bots, besides not as nicely setup. The rest of it's functions are amazing.

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