Zomgdps' Review of 5.2 [Mages]

[zomgDPS]

Well nubs, 5.2 is here and its time to take a seat and take a look at all that is changing, whether it be for the better or worse.

There are many, many changes to mages in 5.2 so instead of focusing on the small/trivial ones, I will focus primarily on the big game changers (at least according to me) and an overall 'who wins - who loses' analysis followed by a simple FAQ.



The Winners of 5.2

Frost Mages: With buffs to the main nukes as well as 'cleaning up' of the gameplay with the removal of targeting pet freeze (and through extension, the need for micro-ing the pet) during boss fights, Frost is looking very strong for 5.2.
What's better, is that all testing for Frost on the PTR was done without the t15 set bonus, meaning, Frost will actually turn out to perform stronger than it was on the PTR when the bug gets fixed!
All this, coupled with nerfs to the other specs means Frost is a clear winner in 5.2.

Blazing Speed: This was a talent I was keeping a close eye on personally throughout the PTR. I am quite satisfied with it where it is now. "Mobility through speed" sort of 'works' in the first tier, even though on some fights you would prefer PoM or Flows, but that's what makes it a good choice I think. Overall, I am more inclined to put the Blazing Speed changes in the winners list. God knows there were moments there where BS could have been a tragedy.

Fire and CM: Fire as a spec went relatively untouched this PTR. And while the last minute nerf to CM got everyone's heart pumping, the quick reversal means that at least the 'fun' aspect of gameplay is preserved. Fire is, yet gain, looking to be an extremely strong spec in 5.2, especially with gear. I am quite certain that a few weeks into the patch when people have shifted their gear weights to crit, firemages will be burning things down wholesale yet again.


The Losers of 5.2

Arcane: Its no secret that the nerf gods are coming down hard on the Arcane spec with 5.2, with an almost divine-esque fury this time. Being the mage spec that has the most change with 5.2, Arcane is in a 'not-so-good' place overall relative to the other specs. Within the spec, there are smaller wins and losses, though overall, I think Arcane lost the 5.2 race, mainly because it just is not good enough at any one thing to be picked over the other two specs, in almost any context right now.
I feel a much more deeper analysis of Arcane in 5.2 is required (I will work on that separately), but in a TLDR version:
Arcane's stack change is a win, if nothing but for the 'feels'. The invocation nerfs/change kills that variation of Arcane, so that is a loss. RoP being the only version of Arcane that is competitive is another loss (esp with thunder kings extreme movement). The wholesale throughput nerfs on top of the 'automatic nerfs' of losing scorch is another loss.
Couple these 'losses' with the already weak points of the spec, such as the fact that apart from DPS, Arcane doesn't actually bring anything else to the table. As far as burst is concerned, Frost can do better. AoE? Arcane gets handily trounced by Frost again. Single target? Fire wins. Control? Frost. etc etc Due to this and many other smaller losses. Arcane loses 5.2 in the general sense. The spec is still 'viable' if all you want to do is LFR. But then again, I sometimes raid LFR with a 0/0/0 spec spamming just FFBs and still make top 5, so that's some context for you.


Mages: Mages as a class (on the whole) are loosing in 5.2. Primarily due to an extension of the point I made above about Arcane, that being, that when a class doesn't really bring anything other than middling dps then there is a problem.
There is a lot of speculation about a next 'sunwell' event for mages, though I think those QQs are unwarranted now (they are saving a new 'sunwell' for 5.4). However, a grave design error is being brought to light with 5.2. People are realizing that if mages don't bring the zomgdeeps, they really don't bring anything at all. I suspect that part of the issue will get a lot of discussion and airtime in the coming weeks. But overall, with the nerfs to mages and the buffs to other classes plus the utility the other classes bring, all combined, will make 5.2 a rough time for mages.


The Level 90s: Now seen almost as a plague upon the class, the level 90 talents received some 'tweaks' but overall they were basically just 'watered down' and made even more 'maintenance-y' with 5.2. The real loss is the polarization of the level 90s. Frost and Fire mages will just default to Invocation (unless they can use IW all the time) and Arcane mages will just be forced to use RoP. They really aren't talent 'choices' anymore. That being said, in the recent tweet/interview it seems Blizzard has realized their error with the level 90s and they will be changed, just not this expo. Which means that this loss is going to stick with the class for at least the next year, which in itself is a loss.


The "Meh's" of 5.2

Flameglow: Blizz had a great opportunity in 5.2. To really bring something new and unique to mages and alliviate the somewhat dearth of inspired talent choices, however, they went with the easy option instead. Flameglow is the definition of 'meh'. A true passive (in that, you don't even realize it exists) flameglow will just take up its spot in PvE bossfight talent lists (boss does lots of regular small dot damage, take flameglow, else dont) and nothing more. Some experimental PvP comps might try to see use of it against DoT heave cleaves, but other than that, flameglow will be overshadowed by Ice Barrier there too.
A passive damage reduction. Meh.

Removal of welly freeze on bosses: This is 'meh' mainly since there are positives and negatives that balance themselves out. The negatives? Spec identity. As they say, welly is now just "a dot with legs" on bosses. Frosties who identify with the elemental speak to this being a loss of spec identity, I agree.
However, there are benefits. First, it 'cleans up' the frost rotation since you now don't have to manage yet another cooldown as well as the other short cools frost has. This also allows makes the glyph of welly somewhat non-mandatory for bosses, again a good thing.
The issue isn't fixed, just delayed.




There are tons of smaller changes too, some straight buffs and some modifications, but nothing majorly game changing, e.g. PvP mages will still take Ice Barrier and be frost. RoF will still beat out competition in its tier, etc etc. In most all else, it will be business as usual.


FAQ

What spec is zomgdeeps!? What should I spec for 5.2?!?!
Depends.
If you are a 'server first' type raider, then you might have a problem (I'll address that later).

For everyone else, play what you feel most comfortable playing (i.e. the spec which you are most intimately familiar with). As a general rule, if you are haste heavy go frost, mastery stick to arcane and if crit, obviously, go fire. (n.b. if you are mastery-haste mix, go Frost. Arcane performs very poorly with the same mix).
In general, you will want to start accumulating crit gear as you make your way up the ilvls and then make the inevitable switch to fire. That will be your raidspec near the mid-end of this tier.


For the server first type raiders, you might want to consider alts and/or if you will be the only mage in the raid, I suggest you go fire anyway. Progression is going to be a b!tch and you will regularly be getting trampled by the locks and booms in your raid. Your real deeps isn't really going to kick in till much later in the tier (both with the tier bonus and better crit), but hopefully you can be an asset to your raid in some other way (like not standing in the fire, etc etc).

How to play Arcane?!?
Stack mastery go RoP.
Rotation is: AB AB AB AB (AMx2) ABr, rinse repeat (stand in your rune). Sneak a bomb in between the first and second AMs in order to get a chance at another AM proc. But other than that, that's it. Welcome to Arcane 5.2 'gameplay', enjoy your stay!

What is the best spec?
Still Fire, mostly.
This is not 'theoretical' 'best' mind you. At the time of this writing, we cannot accurately make that prediction (the tools we use are still being updated).
However, realistically its Fire. The performance 'bang-for-your-buck' per effort invested for Fire is just too damn high! (like rent). Fire also has a significant toolset (not as large as frost's) but can deal with enough situations (especially mobility) which will allow it to shine in 5.2.

Given that Fire also scales best as well as gear in this tier generally having a 'crit' slant in terms of available gear, means its a worthwhile gearing and spec investment to make tomorrow when the patch drops.

When should I go fire?!?!
ilvl 500+
505 to be sure and definitely by 510. Try to synchronize the switch with the acquisition of your set bonus(es) for maximum 'bang-for-your-buck'.

Now what?
Ask questions, critique, feedback and thoughts. In this thread. Go.


/discuss.



EDIT:
Alongside my review, Blizz put out their OWN review of mages in 5.2. I've added it to the OP now:

We set out to accomplish a few goals with Mages:

* Despite various adjustments along the way, Frost Mages are still too powerful in PvP and not quite competitive in PvE.

* Our changes to Arcane in patch 5.1 overshot the mark and also needed some changes.

* While we wanted to make some less attractive talents more attractive, we also weren’t satisfied with the Mage talent tree.

There are a few changes to Frost in PvP. First, the PvP set bonus only lowers the cooldown of Counterspell when it is successfully used as an interrupt, not as a silence. As we’ve said before, we think silences are too dominant in PvP, but we don’t think patch 5.2 is the right time to remove them all because we can’t also remove all of the instant heals in PvP. We like the Counterspell change because it rewards skilled play. We also made a change to the way Ring of Frost works with Presence of Mind. Rather than making the Ring of Frost instantly apply, the PoM only makes the cast time instant—the Ring still needs to arm for two seconds before freezing the unfortunates standing on it. Most significantly, we redesigned the Glyph of Fireblast to no longer allow it to detonate Frost Bomb on demand; instead it will require some timing on the part of the player. We’re boosting Frost’s PvE performance via Frostbolt, which requires a spell cast (which means the Mage must stand still and risks Frost lock), and also has a stacking debuff to really maximize damage.

We had two problems we wanted to solve with Arcane. The first was that Scorch was never intended to be rotational for Arcane to avoid having to dump stacks of Arcane Charges. Arcane is intended to build up charges but then dump them when the mana drain gets too high, but Scorch allowed Arcane Mages to avoid that cycle, which inflated their damage as a consequence. However, we also wanted to tweak a previous change where we increased Arcane Charges up to a max stack of 6. Dumping a stack of 6 is painful because it takes a long time to build it back up again, so in 5.2 we are lowering the stack size to 4.

Scorch was a big design problem for us for other reasons. It feels really good to have something to cast while moving, even if it’s a DPS loss overall. Many mages were taking Scorch for reasons beyond the Arcane Charge stacking issue above. At the same time, the talent tree also suffered a problem where Blazing Speed couldn’t compete with Temporal Shield or Ice Barrier. We had hoped to position Blazing Speed as a defensive ability, but really it’s a mobility talent, and we think it makes more sense alongside Presence of Mind and Ice Floes, which also offer mobility in one way or another. Instead of replacing Blazing Speed with Scorch, we just gave Scorch to Fire mages, which also helps differentiate the specs a bit more. Instead, now Mages have a new talent, Flameglow, which is a passive defensive option that absorbs some damage from each hit, and fits in thematically alongside Temporal Shield and Ice Barrier.

Sauce.


My take? It is extremely void of any real insight. It feels they are just listing the changes they made with not much in terms of having any real window into what they were thinking.


Imho, it is a dud review. Mine is better.


You hear that Blizz? I'm better than you!!

[mrgreenthump]

I would say fire is yet to be determined, if 10% pyro nerf doesn't hit live tomorrow, then we might be in business and fire will be nr1 choice for any t14heroic geared mage, but if it does, fire will be quite underpowered the few first weeks or months depending how you get gear and raid spots.

Other than that would prolly add fireblast glyph to loosers, and greater invis to winners(though many people might not agree)

[zomgDPS]

Other than that would prolly add fireblast glyph to loosers, and greater invis to winners(though many people might not agree)

I did consider those two specifically. Invis, while good, isn't a gamechanger.

The talent is still plagued by random "doesn't even work" bugs (similar to the old vanish bugs) as well its just not as good as the other two options right now (Cauterize for PvE, Snap for PvP). Small changes like this that don't really impact much don't make any list

I would say fire is yet to be undetermined, if 10% pyro nerf doesn't hit live tomorrow, then we might be in business and fire will be nr1 choice for any t14heroic geared mage

I'm working under the assumption that everything works as designed. If something is out of whack due to some bug then I do not think we should really consider it.

At this point I am looking at a specs viability in the long run, especially due to the fact that 'spec-swapping' is not as painless for a mage as some would think (mainly due to blizz's inability to find parity in stat weights between specs). In this context, fire wins. It is just too strong over multiple dimensions in this tier (n.b. relative to the other mage specs that is. relative to other classes, mages are a bit meh).

[mrgreenthump]

In this context, fire wins. It is just too strong over multiple dimensions in this tier.

Ofc it does, its far better designed spec for raiding than either frost or arcane..

[zomgDPS]

Though now that I'm thinking.. if I were to put a glyph on the list, it would probably be the glyph of evocation.

The healing (especially with invocation) is just laughable, especially with the broad spectrum non-heal spec healing debuff that exists in any sort of controlled pvp environment.

Though that is a gamewide loss, for all the class' that have glyphs that heal (e.g. hunters with their disengage etc etc). I wouldn't be surprised that pvp mages drop that glyph, which I guess it makes it 'non-mandatory' though only by making it suck.

Oh well.

[Summer]

Just want to say I've really enjoyed reading your posts throughout this PTR. Thanks for all the hard work you've put into mages and especially into going to the bother of posting it all here

I'm trying to decide whether to try frost or fire first, really can't decide. Would be awesome if some US mages could give us "first night" impressions a bit later!

[schwarzkopf]

I found the haste arcane build working quite smoothly in 5.2 PTR (note smoothly - I didn't measure the DPS) compared to in 5.0/5.1.

The change to 4 stack with a 50% buff per cast means losing stacks with an ABar isn't feeling so nasty. Also ABar is hitting big even at my 488 iLvl.

I just wish they had made Evocation buff and ROP start timing out on combat. THe endless casting before pulls is really annoying. That would have cost NO balance issues at all.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 06:26 AM ----------

I did consider those two specifically. Invis, while good, isn't a gamechanger.

For me it is an awesome companion to Ice Barrier or TEmporal Shield. 90% DR for 3 or more seconds timed with some uber boss abilities - seems quite nice to me.

Oh - and yeah, thanks for the info - after all the flack you get here, one would have thought you would have long abandoned us

[TrollShaman]

I still don't understand the change to water ele's freeze. The way I see it atm, we can't freeze bosses anymore just for the fingers of frost buff but we are compensated with increased proc chance on FoF on frost spells... Am I right?

In any case looking forward to be able to be competitive in normals with frost as a matter of preference. Also poor Arcane getting the shortest end of the stick...

[zomgDPS]

For me it is an awesome companion to Ice Barrier or TEmporal Shield. 90% DR for 3 or more seconds timed with some uber boss abilities - seems quite nice to me.

So does cauterize, and some might say it has the upper hand since it doesn't actually need you to do anything since it auto activates.

Either way. GIs cd reduction is not going to cut it in the general broad spectrum sense.

I still don't understand the change to water ele's freeze. The way I see it atm, we can't freeze bosses anymore just for the fingers of frost buff but we are compensated with increased proc chance on FoF on frost spells... Am I right?

Correct.

There are a few fights with adds though, however, in some you cannot freeze the adds either. Essentially, its been taken out of boss fights.

In any case looking forward to be able to be competitive in normals with frost as a matter of preference. Also poor Arcane getting the shortest end of the stick...

[mrgreenthump]

So does cauterize, and some might say it has the upper hand since it doesn't actually need you to do anything since it auto activates.

Either way. GIs cd reduction is not going to cut it in the general broad spectrum sense.

Ain't it still capped to 2x ur max hp?

Oh and why does everyone just ignore the awesomeness of greater invis removing all raid dots? Sure it wont remove debuffs, but still its a nice talent.

[ssviolett]

Thanks for this very clear summary of pros\cons of being a mage in 5.2.
It is sad that obviously Blizzard dont know what to do with mages ("has realized their error with the level 90s and they will be changed, just not this expo"), for every expansion we hear the same - ok, we've failed, but for the NEXT expansion it will be great FOR SURE ! ... while it isnt.
... meh, I liked 5.0 mage

Edit: probably you should add a notice on change of Invoc healing. For me being enjoyed solo content like old raids it is huge nerf From 40% to 10% healing, even with reducing of the cast time and removal of CD (if I got it right) damn pvpers >.<

Edit#2: I dont get - Invoc change - is it a buff or a nerf ?
Lets try some simple math: imagine you have 100 dps.
Old Invoc: 40 seconds 125% of spelldamage with 6 sec cast time = 40*125/(40+6) = 108,7 dps
New Invoc: 60 seconds 115% of spelldamage with 3 sec cast time = 60*115/(60+3) = 109,52 dps
Looks like a buff O_o no ?

[mrgreenthump]

Edit: probably you should add a notice on change of Invoc healing. For me being enjoyed solo content like old raids it is huge nerf From 40% to 10% healing, even with reducing of the cast time and removal of CD (if I got it right)

Ye for soloing its a bit silly now, like sure you could fit evocation in bethween every mobs/group you pull, but then you can only take 40-45k damage+ absorb from your t2 talents to remain hp neutral, so guess its time to start using our mana cakes..

[Puffman]

I thought haste was so good for Frost because of Evocation's prohibitive cast time? Is it still the same with the changes in 5.2?

[Alakallanar]

Edit#2: I dont get - Invoc change - is it a buff or a nerf ?
Lets try some simple math: imagine you have 100 dps.
Old Invoc: 40 seconds 125% of spelldamage with 6 sec cast time = 40*125/(40+6) = 108,7 dps
New Invoc: 60 seconds 115% of spelldamage with 3 sec cast time = 60*115/(60+3) = 109,52 dps
Looks like a buff O_o no ?

You must remember that you precast your first Invocation. Therefore the first time the 3 second cast time difference doesn't matter. Old Invocation starts ahead and New Invocation starts catching up with longer fight durations. Afaik New Invocation was calculated to be a small nerf on all reasonable boss fight lengths. Otoh it is a qol improvement.

Removal of welly freeze on bosses: This is 'meh' mainly since there are positives and negatives that balance themselves out. The negatives? Spec identity. As they say, welly is now just "a dot with legs" on bosses. Frosties who identify with the elemental speak to this being a loss of spec identity, I agree.
However, there are benefits. First, it 'cleans up' the frost rotation since you now don't have to manage yet another cooldown as well as the other short cools frost has. This also allows makes the glyph of welly somewhat non-mandatory for bosses, again a good thing.

Another aspect of this change is the loss of some on demand burst. I think they should have delayed this change (and the improved Frost Fingers proc rate) until they add Water Jet.

[Deleted]

There's something to consider : gear.
A mage with LFR/normal gear will do differently than someone with T15H, and even differently than with metagem.
it feel like blizzard have made it's balance on class with having sinister.

With this in mind, I see think like this.
Arcane : will not to bad and can do good. the dps will change linearly with stuff. Sinister will make it bursty.
Fire : will do little at start then grow stronger. Sinister won't change a lot.
Frost : will do good at start, once in 4T15 than will drop behind. Sinister's ppm feel like to help it jump back to the other two, in T15H.

[Alakallanar]

Actually in T15H frost will long have reached the soft caps in haste and crit. So, although haste is a strong stat for frost, haste procs won't be too useful.

[Akraen]

I expect mid-tier adjustments to scaling with Fire. Patterns tend to repeat themselves.

Frost should be fine throughout. This much effort wouldn't go into the spec if it'd be rendered obsolete.

[Deleted]

Actually in T15H frost will long have reached the soft caps in haste and crit. So, although haste is a strong stat for frost, haste procs won't be too useful.

The question isn't to now if the meta will be particularly good but if it help drop haste value a little (or not).

[Deleted]

Thank you for this zomg.

I'm haste heavy arcane now, i'll test haste heavy arcane see how it goes, and prolly will go frost .

[Sheridanjohn]

Sigh, i'll miss my mage being my main in 5.2. I don't think we will be top tier dps till ~530ilvl fire. Will be done with progression then so will be on my lock.