EPGP with Lootmaster override option
If EP/GP just points to slacker or very minor upgrade compared to second in list, the LM have option to override the system and give loot to the right person.
We Woshambo for it.
I kick them in the nuts, then they kick me in the nuts. Whoever gives up first loses the loot.
Back when I raided, me and the other officers just took what we wanted. Everyone wanted to raid with us because we were the best.
In my 2 hardcore raiding guild, we used DKP System, it rewarded the active players above anyone else. I dislike loot council, it could lead to some small "pack of friends at the top" issues, if not controlled well and equally.
If you dont want to use anything overcomplicated, simply write notes about each player online to raid at the start or till 30min into the start.
Those who needs an item, wishper the raid leader, and based on attandance, the more active will be given the loot. Then his "attandance" number is either cleared back to zero or set to half of the current amount. Can be fixed later on if changes needed.
I think this is the simplest way without much of a logistic. Then the table can be shared on forums etc
Last edited by Darksoldierr; 2013-03-07 at 03:15 PM.
Time is on our side
Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*
What I used to do was a mix of EPGP, I just called them raid points, need before greed, MS>OS and loot council. When we had a pug we would roll once per character that could use the item that dropped and then if the pug won they got it and all was right with the world. If we won the council would then talk about attendance and the current upgrade of the item verses what they had. I found this system usually ended with well distributed loot since those that saw little change may not see it as we would be gearing a new character that might have joined like 2 weeks ago.
It would go like this:
* 3 of our raiders and 1 pug are eligible.
* I rolled 3 times and the pug once (for explanation we won)
* We then checked to see of those using it whom was MS, who had the most EPGP and who would see the best improvement.
Usually newbies wouldn't get anything since they were still trials and lacked the EPGP to be near it but if they had attended and needed the gear most we would usually end with about 1 or 2 pieces going to them to help get our entire raid up to par.
He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.
we use DKP since we started raiding 8 years ago. members get 70 DKP / raid for attendance. item bids start at 5 dkp. you can bid in 5 dkp steps until 50 (5-10-15-etc.), after that you have to bid in 50 dkp steps (50-100-150-etc.)
we have made very good experiences with this system as nobody can feel that loot is distributed unfairly.
We use a slightly modified version of EPGP, or more exact a relational DKP system with decay. (We do not use the EPGP addon).
Basicly, it's standard bidding, whomever have the highest points wins, but with the twist that our members are nice people, and often let others have stuff if they really need it.
Works very well for us, as it allows for both discussion between the people who needs the drop, and a definite decision in the form of DKP.
Loot council with a progression-first, merit-second (a close second) mindset.
This basically means we choose to gear our best players with highest attendance first, with gear going to the role (tank / healer / dps) we need to "beef up" for the given fight we're progressing on. Typically its healers first, main tanks second, DPS third (let's face it, if your healers are geared to the tits, fights become trivialized)...unless of course we're dealing with enrage timer issues (almost never the case). We don't over-gear any one particular player or group of players. In addition, we almost always take into consideration how large an upgrade it is for the pool of players being considered for said piece of loot.
Guild has been around since the very beginning, following this exact model. Folks that are progression-minded are the ones that stick around...the system works because its well managed and everyone is focused on killing bosses and not the acquisition of loot.
Last edited by Toxigen; 2013-03-07 at 03:50 PM.
"There are two types of guys in this world. Guys who sniff their fingers after scratching their balls, and dirty fucking liars." -StylesClashv3
"Elo Hell is where the Ego is greater than the Elo." -Bystekhilcar
10man with a 12 person roster. We run with Need/Greed rules.
You hit Need if it's a main spec upgrade. You hit Greed if it's an offspec upgrade (or if you feel it's a tiny side-grade).
People will voluntarily suggest giving up a small upgrade if it's a bigger upgrade for someone else.
Trials or fillers helping out when we're short handed don't get any loot anyone else needs, so they go below off-spec.
Simple, quick and no drama.
Our system is simple. Need>Greed
Though we are thinking about making a new system.
If more than 1 person needs we look back and see if one of them has won a item already. if they have they get minus 10 to their roll.
For each item that person has won he get -10 to he's roll
So if he won 3 items in that raid he would get -30 on the next item that drops.
The reason we want to change is that in the end of last patch some people kept getting lucky with loot and hoarded all of it.
To address the above, it's always risky when running loot council for the reason you stated. However, since we're all RL friends (or friends-of-friends), I don't see favoritism being a problem.
What I hope we'll end up doing is having people that want a certain drop link their current item. Officers can quickly talk it over and take into consideration attendance, performance, biggest upgrade, etc. and hand it out based on that.
Loot council, been using it for years. Assuming the ones in charge know what they are doing, it's perfect.
Doing it like that one system one time and another for a different time is how and why loot systems fail and drama over loot occurs. I understand this is harder for raids that might not be knocking out several bosses or struggling with recruiting. Both of those reasons are just some of the many that so many issues from loot pop up and you see ppl in /trade or on here crying to high heaven over loot.
---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 11:11 AM ----------
If you are going to use /roll to me the don't be a fuckhead method works best.
Roll if you need something if nobody has gotten anything and multiples roll then the high roll figures it out. If say 2 ppl roll one has already looted today then they by default pass to the person that hasn't picked up anything. Ppl rolling off spec that actually use their off spec for the raid say your 2nd tank or 3rd healer that flip flop from dps to heal/tank get the item before somebody else just looking to buff up another spec.
I just don't get the drama over loot or the type of children so many seem to run with. In all of the groups I have ran in over the last few years the ppl rolling on the loot almost always talk with each other to see if it is a bigger upgrade for one or the other and want ppl to improve even if it means they don't get the item, outside of some dog shit horrible rng you see the item again anyways.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
"Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
Good is the enemy of great.
Loot council during progression with tanks>dps>healers for priority, then just need before greed after everything is dead, our raiders are smart enough to pass stuff to people with a greater need after progression is done.
10m loot is rolled need if you want ms. gear is checked before distribution. Pugs must keep up to roll.
Group loot (10-man)
Loot Council (10 Man Guild) with common sense and discussion involved. The guild has been together since Classic, so many of the members are good solid friends in era life as well as in-game, so while some loot drama does occur, generally speaking it is not a problem as we all understand the importance of improving the team, not the individuals.
In a "perfect guild", Loot Council is the best option for progressing guilds, with equal distribution having in mind the guild's progression, and not individual e-peen. However, we are humans, and from my experience, people tend to always be biased towards one another, for whatever reason, even if on a subconscious level.
I was a rl\gm of a hardcore raiding guild for over 5 years (40 then 25man), and we mostly used a DKP system with open bidding and a dkp roof to avoid hoarding, ms>os, and it worked very well. Near the end, we tried moving onto Loot Council, assigning a couple of long lasting members (and the current officers) to make the decisions\voting, and it went shady fast. So we quickly returned to DKPs\bidding to avoid further harm. Maybe if it was up to 1 person it would be better, but people just have different perspectives... and they collide when they're subjective.
I'm now on another guild which uses the above stated lootcouncil\epgp combo, and... well, what can one say. Some decisions always seem shady, but why upset the apple cart.
my guilds is "if you need it, click need, if not pass/greed/disenchant it"