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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavll View Post
    I'm calling total BS on the "vanilla was a one-shot fest". I PvP throughout classic on a lock and a warrior and I was never one, two or even 3 shot. These mythical PvP warriors with their 2500dmg Mortal Strikes or w/e. Remember these videos you saw were a few minutes compilation of hours of footage. It just didn't happen in reality.

    Maybe a fresh geared 60 would get one shot - but thats a fresh geared 60 - what do you expect?

    Resilience ruined PvP/the whole game for me, since it meant I would have to invest twice as much time to get to the level of useful gear I previously had in classic. So I PvPed much less and focused on PvE.

    If resilience was meant to reduce burst...why not just reduce burst? Blizz should work out what fresh 70s,80s,90s will have for HP and work out what it will be at the end of an xpac, then tune burst abilities accordingly. To my mind, it is not at all a problem if a fully epiced max level char can 2 shot a noob green geared character. Don't expect to compete if you have shit gear. Simple really.

    If they must keep PvP gear in the game, just make it stamina/crit heavy.


    Self buffed, with a mix of aq40/naxx40 gear.

    One of the few pictures I have from back then, that kind of dmg wasn't to rare actually.

    They don't want people in bis or close to bis pve gear to dominate pvp.

    Resilience needs to stay.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  2. #62
    I was there at 60...I remember premades would be BWL/AQ/NAXX gear. FCs would have lifegiving gem mandatory and at least 4 piece bonuses. forget entry level pvp until the patch where no rank required for all gear.
    Then Jesus said, 'I can offer you eternal salvation" and the Hunters asked "Can we have Kings or Might instead?" n00b 13:37

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterbom View Post

    Self buffed, with a mix of aq40/naxx40 gear.

    One of the few pictures I have from back then, that kind of dmg wasn't to rare actually.

    They don't want people in bis or close to bis pve gear to dominate pvp.

    Resilience needs to stay.
    Big difference between 2k and 2.5k. A fresh 60 mage or lock could crit nearly 2k with a soulfire or pyro @ 60.

    I actually remember a 60 mage spamming 700dmg frostbolts at me while I cast my soul fire. I one shot him for 2.9k crit xD That's crap play by him though, he could just CS me. Or Ice Block. Not a problem as I see it.

    Anyway, my main point is that Resilience is an inelegant solution to a design problem that should be resolved through proper number balancing not just inserting a new arbitrary stat to reduce damage in PvP only. It provides a barrier to entry to PvP that shouldn't be there. Gear should be gear, use it how you see fit.

  4. #64
    I think Blizzard should create balanced PvP.

    How? Well, normalize gear as they have in Challenge Modes, or take the same system as Guild Wars 2 have, as in; everyone have the same gear, no one can have gear with better stats, so newcomers who enters PvP will not be one-shotted 24/7 because of someone with 1 million gear stats. Of course you will be able to modify it with different gems and enchants, and either choose healing, melee damage, spell damage or tank stats, but the stats will be balanced.

    So the PvP will be about skills and not the one with the best gear.

    Then of course, some people don't like balance.

  5. #65
    I've been playing 8 odd years, I have done my time in raids/dungeons.. I do exclusively pvp now... no way in hell would I still play if i was forced into raiding again just to stay competetive... this has been the best expack yet in terms of seperating them out. a pvp player is now easy to spot in a crowd of pve'rs! he will be the one wrecking faces.

  6. #66
    imho pvp gear is not the problem, the problem already admitted by blizzard is the number of spec/combination and the fact that they for their convenience only refuse to completely separate pve and pvp ability.
    blizzard for the sake of the whiners has tried many time to make all the specs viable in both pvp and pve and admitted that is still impossible to make them all balanced, if anything they need to further separate pvp and pve even to the point of making dedicated spec and ability.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy View Post
    PvE can go to hell.
    ^ROFL made me LOL irl. xD

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 03:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Klavier Gavin View Post
    I think Blizzard should create balanced PvP.

    How? Well, normalize gear as they have in Challenge Modes, or take the same system as Guild Wars 2 have, as in; everyone have the same gear, no one can have gear with better stats, so newcomers who enters PvP will not be one-shotted 24/7 because of someone with 1 million gear stats. Of course you will be able to modify it with different gems and enchants, and either choose healing, melee damage, spell damage or tank stats, but the stats will be balanced.

    So the PvP will be about skills and not the one with the best gear.

    Then of course, some people don't like balance.
    Problem is that without a Gear Treadmill it gets boring really fast. I got bored of GW2 pvp after a few weeks. And its not that it was balanced. It was because I felt like I was working towards nothing. As much as I love pvp there is something about Getting Better gear that makes it even more exciting. Cause I notice when im fully geared I pvp less

    Arena ratings is good incentive to do arena but its exciting to also get better gear

  8. #68
    So, you want to make people who hate PvE have to PvE in order for then to get gear and so that you can show off. That's what I'm getting out of this. Nope. Not gonna happen.

  9. #69
    Epic! Knadra's Avatar
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    No, that would distance the PvP community and leave a larger part of the WoW community in the dark.

  10. #70
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    There are a lot of people who play this game for pvp and pvp only. Forcing those people to do Pve would be a mistake.

    There is no reason at all to remove pvp gear.
    I agree with this answer, There are people who just do pvp & nothing else, They will no remove pvp gear ever.
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral Luminoth4's Avatar
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    Nope. I prefer PVP over PVE, I do mix in both however. WoW without a gear grind for PVP would probably put me off the game, you want to win to get rewards, if there was no reward I'd probably just run around attacking things and not care for objectives. Blizzard is making changes to obtaining gear, with all Weapons now available without 2200 Rating, which allows anyone to get gear as long as they put some effort in. Also PVP Gear and Weapons finally have their place in PVP, with PVP Power meaning PVE Epics are not the best for PVP anymore.

    For those complaining about getting PVP Gear. Complain more. I've leveled four Characters to 90 so far with 2 more almost 90, and each of the 90's has gone through Random BGs with whoever and whatever, and come out the other side, now with mainly Malevolent Gear. If you need a boost to start, buy some of the Contender's/ Crafted Dreadful Gear, or convert some Justice to Honor to buy Malevolent Season 13 Gear. It's not hard to get started. Oh and also, Sha/Loot Pinata chucks out Malevolent Gear. Go beat on it.

    I don't generally mind who I end up in a BG with. As long as you aren't someone with less than 300k HP wearing gear from Jade Forest and have a brain/play the objective you can win.
    Alliance - Shadowsong

    Horde - Tarren-Mill
    Culmination - Nulo - Amissio - Dreadnought

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by spinalc0rd View Post
    Problem is that without a Gear Treadmill it gets boring really fast. I got bored of GW2 pvp after a few weeks. And its not that it was balanced. It was because I felt like I was working towards nothing. As much as I love pvp there is something about Getting Better gear that makes it even more exciting. Cause I notice when im fully geared I pvp less

    Arena ratings is good incentive to do arena but its exciting to also get better gear
    There you are. You found the problem. PvP in WoW isn´t good enough. You wouldn´t play it without the reward system behind it.

    Sure, everything we do, we do for recognition and rewards of any sort. But does this have to be gear? What else could be a good reward to keep you PvPing? What about ranks with value? What if guards in cities would salute you for your rank? What if you had an aura making your presence valued in open PvP encounters?
    I hope you get the point. The reward doesn´t have to be gear.
    Last edited by Peng; 2013-03-07 at 05:07 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by LairenyX View Post
    Should the only gear be used for PvP be PvE gear just like in Vanilla?
    I think they should:
    1. Get rid of all PvP gear except trinkets.
    2. Normalize all gear in PvP similar to challenge modes...except trinkets...which get scaled to max level.
    3. Combine Justice, Valor, and Honor points into just Honor points. Then, have a vendor that sells several tiers of PvE gear and PvP trinkets for the new Honor points. In order to buy a tier 2 piece, you have to turn in the tier 1 piece as well as more Honor points, etc.

    The reasons why are these:
    1. How is Blizzard supposed to balance 33 specs in PvP when players can still min/max all their gear and talents for each one? Pray for a miracle or get used to very imbalanced PvP.
    2. The formula in MMOs is to go kill things to make yourself more powerful. PvP can still accomplish that without making the fights terribly unfair.
    3. I think PvP servers would be more popular since a level 10 could actually stand a chance of fending off a max level character trying to gank him. It would be a lot harder to harass players on these servers. Starter areas might actually be fun world PvP areas afterwards, etc.
    4. PvP would be more accessible and hopefully not just a little niche side game for gear that only matters in the niche.
    Last edited by Golden; 2013-03-07 at 06:06 PM.

  14. #74
    No, you're just bitter that you can't take PvE gear and stomp people in PvP anymore with an unfair advantage.
    PvP gear is openly available to everyone with a slight bit of effort, go get some.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavll View Post
    Big difference between 2k and 2.5k. A fresh 60 mage or lock could crit nearly 2k with a soulfire or pyro @ 60.

    I actually remember a 60 mage spamming 700dmg frostbolts at me while I cast my soul fire. I one shot him for 2.9k crit xD That's crap play by him though, he could just CS me. Or Ice Block. Not a problem as I see it.

    Anyway, my main point is that Resilience is an inelegant solution to a design problem that should be resolved through proper number balancing not just inserting a new arbitrary stat to reduce damage in PvP only. It provides a barrier to entry to PvP that shouldn't be there. Gear should be gear, use it how you see fit.
    It could go higher than that and that is excluding the wsg berserker buff.

    If you have a better solution I'm sure blizzard would like to know about it.

    The pvp gear IS there to create a barrier, nothing to fix.
    Last edited by Exeris; 2013-03-07 at 06:07 PM.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  16. #76
    I LOVED pvp back in vanilla, and would kill for resilience to be completely removed from this game. It will never happen, but I would happily start pvp'ing again.

  17. #77
    They should make it like guild war 2 .

    Just farm / do arena for cosmetic changes

    Just give balanced stats / gear to everyone for every expansion

  18. #78
    Pit Lord Aeriedk's Avatar
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    No. PvPer's don't want to raid its why they play PvP. They enjoy the dynamic of the unknown. In PvE you always know whats coming and therefore you can make calculated decisions based on knowing that an attack is about to come or you need to move over here because mechanic X will kill you.

    People that play PvP enjoy games of CTF and king of the hill and defeating other players not the game. Forcing them to play PvE just so they can be successful in PvP would severely damage blizzards relationship with PvP players and likely strike a blow to WoW that could not be fixed.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-HxC Raider in Schadenfreude-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Rezhial View Post
    I LOVED pvp back in vanilla, and would kill for resilience to be completely removed from this game. It will never happen, but I would happily start pvp'ing again.
    I will sacrifice myself.

    Kill me, and let the people of World of Warcraft experience non-resilence PvP once again!

  20. #80
    As a person who likes both pve and pvp, keep them separate. You earn pvp gear from pvping and pve gear from raids. It has a nice balance to it all.

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