1. #2301
    Thanks for those stat weights. Putting that into Mr.Robot made me feel alot better regarding the stat outcomes

  2. #2302
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Look at the plots and see how much Mastery you need before Haste becomes better again :P.
    You can have a situation like:
    14000 haste
    12000 mastery
    But mastery could only be better till you get let's say 13000 haste and 13000 mastery... and after that so you have to stay at 13000 haste and add mastery after.
    If you went for 9000 haste 17000 mastery, of course haste will be better till you get back to 13000 haste.

    THE NUMBERS ARE FICTIONAL, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA!

    Real life example: If you have 9777 haste as Affliction, simcraft will tell you haste is better than mastery. You actually only need 1 point of haste to get the 9778 haste breakpoint and after that mastery will be better so going all out and reforging/gemming mastery would be silly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'd say you should get at least 3. With DS and t15 2p you should get 4 without much trouble. Most of the fight you should hover at around 3.5 embers so when an int proc comes, you have 3 CB's ready to fire in a 10 second window. I'm at 9800 haste and not in a raid group and my CB cast time is 2.43sec. That would leave ~2.5 seconds to move and still get 3 CB's with the int proc.

    Worst case scenario: You are at 3.5 embers, you cast 1 CB and right after it goes off your 10 sec int proc comes up so you are at 2.5 embers and the first CB did not benefit from it. You use 2 CB"s and you have 5 seconds left to generate half an ember and cast another CB... and that's easy so you get 3.

    Best case scenario: You are at 3.5 embers, you cast 1 CB and int procs comes up right before you finish the cast. This CB will have the Int proc (since CB damage is calculated the second the cast is finished not started) and you will have 2.5 embers. You cast 2 more CB's and have 5 seconds to generate 0.5 embers and cast another CB... this way you got 4 CB's with a 10 second int proc.


    I'd say 3 CB's in a 10 seconds int proc is kind of the average you should aim for... that if you didn't have another int proc before that didn't leave you time to get back to your 3.5 embers hovering point.
    Well it would depend on the int proc, I know you can cast 3, I say 2 because you might get a stronger proc right afterwards. If you have both breath of the hydra nad wushoo proc at the same time then obviously cast all 3 bolts, if you only have breath, then its prolly better to save 1 ember in case you get a stronger proc.

  3. #2303
    The Patient Extremity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Don't use FF as a filler. i guess I need to make that section more clear.

    When I'm told to use RoF as filler when moving, just use it every GCD while moving? Is there a cap to the number of RoFs that can be out or is that only really determined by running out of mana?

    Edit: I know this is weird, but I'm getting higher DPS from Voidwalker with taunt/threat boost turned off than I am from Observer (when using sup). Wtf?

    Edit 2: With an hour of testing for each pet I'm still getting highest DPS with VW. I... what?
    Last edited by Extremity; 2013-09-27 at 11:33 PM. Reason: wat

  4. #2304
    Quote Originally Posted by Extremity View Post
    When I'm told to use RoF as filler when moving, just use it every GCD while moving? Is there a cap to the number of RoFs that can be out or is that only really determined by running out of mana?

    Edit: I know this is weird, but I'm getting higher DPS from Voidwalker with taunt/threat boost turned off than I am from Observer (when using sup). Wtf?
    RoF does not stack. You're going to want to mostly use FF as a filler (if you don't have KJC) while moving, unless you have some very high haste conditions (legendary proc, bloodlust, etc) or there are multiple targets to hit with RoF.

    FYI - the DPS differential on the pets is pretty slim in most cases, and it's likely that you're just seeing some RNG difference in the limited # of attempts you're looking at. The observer will - on average - give you the best dps by a very slight amount.

    But frankly sometimes I pull out the Succy because, she's a lot prettier (the knockback/aoe is kinda nice to have sometimes too). :-P

  5. #2305
    I am Murloc! muto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Look at the plots and see how much Mastery you need before Haste becomes better again :P.
    You can have a situation like:
    14000 haste
    12000 mastery
    But mastery could only be better till you get let's say 13000 haste and 13000 mastery... and after that so you have to stay at 13000 haste and add mastery after.
    If you went for 9000 haste 17000 mastery, of course haste will be better till you get back to 13000 haste.

    THE NUMBERS ARE FICTIONAL, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA!

    Real life example: If you have 9777 haste as Affliction, simcraft will tell you haste is better than mastery. You actually only need 1 point of haste to get the 9778 haste breakpoint and after that mastery will be better so going all out and reforging/gemming mastery would be silly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'd say you should get at least 3. With DS and t15 2p you should get 4 without much trouble. Most of the fight you should hover at around 3.5 embers so when an int proc comes, you have 3 CB's ready to fire in a 10 second window. I'm at 9800 haste and not in a raid group and my CB cast time is 2.43sec. That would leave ~2.5 seconds to move and still get 3 CB's with the int proc.

    Worst case scenario: You are at 3.5 embers, you cast 1 CB and right after it goes off your 10 sec int proc comes up so you are at 2.5 embers and the first CB did not benefit from it. You use 2 CB"s and you have 5 seconds left to generate half an ember and cast another CB... and that's easy so you get 3.

    Best case scenario: You are at 3.5 embers, you cast 1 CB and int procs comes up right before you finish the cast. This CB will have the Int proc (since CB damage is calculated the second the cast is finished not started) and you will have 2.5 embers. You cast 2 more CB's and have 5 seconds to generate 0.5 embers and cast another CB... this way you got 4 CB's with a 10 second int proc.


    I'd say 3 CB's in a 10 seconds int proc is kind of the average you should aim for... that if you didn't have another int proc before that didn't leave you time to get back to your 3.5 embers hovering point.
    So, the ultimate goal is to have all three secondary stats (haste, mastery, crit) after the simulation with almost the same stat weights?

  6. #2306
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Why would it lower the amount of casts needed to reach the same uptime Oo. The maximum duration Corruption will have will still be 27seconds.
    If you cast 30 Corruptions in a 10 min fight at 9778 haste and you get let's say 480 ticks out of it.
    Wouldn't 30 Corruptions in a 10 min fight at 13737 haste grant you 510 ticks?
    Kinda derailing, cause that's not what the original question was about, but... Short answer - because dot duration isn't static, and the longer a dot lasts, the less casts it needs to keep the same uptime. Longer - try your own example if you want to see why those breakpoints are the points, after which haste will lose value - throw a corruption with 9210 haste(actual corruption breakpoint-1stat with the 5% buff as far as im aware), note its duration, and throw one with 9211 and note its duration aswell. See why it takes less casts for the same uptime with only 1 point of haste?

  7. #2307
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatelocker View Post
    Somewhat off-topic but I found it interesting. Went GoSac/sac pact destruction last night and sacked the voidwalker. When I popped the extra health voidwalker CD I was at 1.15 million HPs (557ilvl). I have to say its fun having a bigger health pool than the tanks.
    fairly sure the pet makes no difference. When you sac the pet you gain 20% of your own max hp

  8. #2308
    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    fairly sure the pet makes no difference. When you sac the pet you gain 20% of your own max hp
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatelocker View Post
    Somewhat off-topic but I found it interesting. Went GoSac/sac pact destruction last night and sacked the voidwalker. When I popped the extra health voidwalker CD I was at 1.15 million HPs (557ilvl). I have to say its fun having a bigger health pool than the tanks.
    He meant sacrificing the voidwalker specifically so he could get the 30% health CD.

    On another note, how accurate are these sim numbers we're seeing for Destro vs Affliction? Noticing Destruction and Affliction being pretty close in patchwerk sims, Destro being noticeably higher with a lot of sims. No complaints as I'm not a major fan of Affliction, but I didn't expect it to sim out THAT high.

  9. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by gewdgewd View Post
    According to the latest version of SimulationCraft (there has been some discussion that the results from the latest build may be inaccurate, see "New SimCraft version is out" in this forum), your stat weights should be as follows:

    Int: 6.16
    SP: 4.89
    Hit: 4.76
    Crit: 3.16
    Haste: 2.92
    Mastery: 3.30
    These are the weights we should be going by? When i sim i get crazy high haste weights and mastery is always the lowest for me.. This is with the new simcraft version. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced

  10. #2310
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    I'm asking myself if Troll is still the best race if I focus on playing destruction now. It obviously was for affliction and demonology. But how about destruction? A haste on use effect does not seem to be that strong for destruction. I'm currentrly trying to sim it with simcraft, but to be honest, I'm a bit sceptical on the results, as my simcraft completely contradicts Brusalks stat weights. :/

    EDIT:
    BTW my results (for my current gear and reforge) were:
    1. Troll: 256786 DPS
    2. Orc: 254963 DPS
    (3. Worgen 254275 DPS)
    3. Goblin: 253938 DPS
    4. Undead: 252826 DPS
    5... rest

    But Simcraft told me that my statprio would be:
    haste >>> mastery >= crit
    strange.

    EDIT2:
    This priority stays the same for higher values btw. Just ran a plot for haste, crit and mastery. Haste even gets worth more and more.
    I don't understand it.. *cry*
    Last edited by Melian; 2013-09-28 at 09:20 AM.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  11. #2311
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    These are the weights we should be going by? When i sim i get crazy high haste weights and mastery is always the lowest for me.. This is with the new simcraft version. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Sohl/advanced
    If you want to sim it, go with 2target sims since it will be the closest of all bosses in SoO. I'm highly doupting that simcraft can still manage add sniping. and since there is only 2 bosses that purely singletarget fights, you want to go with the reforging you are using atm, mastery>crit>haste
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  12. #2312
    Quote Originally Posted by Richardi View Post
    If you want to sim it, go with 2target sims since it will be the closest of all bosses in SoO. I'm highly doupting that simcraft can still manage add sniping. and since there is only 2 bosses that purely singletarget fights, you want to go with the reforging you are using atm, mastery>crit>haste
    going to two-target simulation actually boosted the value of haste dramatically for me, it was 8.76 to intellect's 10.44. I'm really baffled by this, the actual simmed DPS is making me want to regem and regear for Destro because I really don't care much for Affliction, but with the relative silence from the preeminent Destro simcrafters and the logical conclusion that haste sucks for Destro I don't trust the new Simcraft build one bit.

    edit - SCRAP THIS BULLSHIT. I tried a quick reforge, went mastery > crit > haste and resimmed. DPS stayed roughly identical but simcraft now values Mastery at 4.59, Crit at 4.30 and Haste at 4.03.

    FAO - nooby people like me simming Destro with 9778 breakpoint Affliction reforges, having high Haste seems to inflate the value of Haste itself falsely. once you reforge mastery > crit > haste the values even themselves out.
    Last edited by squidbear; 2013-09-28 at 10:15 AM.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  13. #2313
    Some tests were already done in this thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...bot-and-Destro
    It seems Brusalks and Zoopercat / Revulva @ Ask Mr Robot had the same test results since Simc was updated and corrected the nerf/buff in different specs.

    Nvm Melian edited the post =P
    Last edited by Lucidprodigy; 2013-09-28 at 10:34 AM.

  14. #2314
    does AoE heavy fights with lots of havocing chaos bolts/shadow burns as well as fire and brimstone favor GoSac over GoSup?

  15. #2315
    GoSac does nothing to F&B, but it does improve CBs/SBs. If there's ample opportunity to use these, then GoSac is probably the better choice. The differences between the Grimoires aren't that big to begin with iirc.

  16. #2316
    I thought GoSac made F&B abilities hit for their full damage rather than the reduced damage they do without?

  17. #2317
    Epic!
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    I thought GoSac made F&B abilities hit for their full damage rather than the reduced damage they do without?
    Where did you see that ?
    No, GoSac does nothing for FnB.
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  18. #2318
    Hmm... i was checking some dmg amount with and withou GoSaC single+3target aoe to training dummies. I found out that for some weird reason GoSaC 3target inci hits less than without it. I have no idea why that happens though. On singletarget it hits more of course. I removed my weapon+trinkets to prevent some int procs.

    *Edit: anyone else seen the same thing or know why that is happening?
    Last edited by Richardi; 2013-09-28 at 09:09 PM.
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  19. #2319
    Ah, I get why I was confused now.

    Incinerate (unaffected if modified by Fire and Brimstone)
    Conflagrate (unaffected if modified by Fire and Brimstone)

    I was under the impression that means that F&B didn't use reduced damage spells.
    My bad.

  20. #2320
    This is me: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rolok/advanced (ilvl 546, 2pc t15, normal Amp, Flex KTT, Burning primal diamond [by choice])
    I just downloaded the latest SimC, and ran one each with Supremacy and Sacrifice (default APLs). Sac was ahead by 3k, and it's telling me (on Sac profile):

    Int 6.96
    Crit 3.9
    Haste 3.88
    Mastery 3.82

    (Haste then Crit then Mast for Sup profile)

    Not surprised it's simming Haste over Mastery for single-target, but am surprised at Crit on top. Close enough I don't feel the need to change my gemming / reforging, tho, considering Mastery seems to play to a wider range of Destro's strengths better.

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