1. #2881
    Quote Originally Posted by reiuz View Post
    brusalk a little question
    there are a max cap for crit? i've got 27 %crit but low haste 9%
    should keep a critical maximum around 25 and raise haste?
    mastery of course statistic priority!!!
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/it/characte...a/Reiuz/simple
    thanks
    There isn't really a max cap on crit benefit. Jut get more Haste/Crit and like Werst said it's largely interchangeable. I have seen a symbiotic relationship with Haste/Crit such that too much of one makes it less beneficial than the other, assuming you have 4pc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    Thought the idea was to convert as much haste as possible into mastery/crit.
    For single target, Mastery>Crit=Haste is not best. However, the more you AoE the better Mastery gets (and FAST).

    As a trend, what I see as the number of targets, n, increases, then the rough estimate value of the stats is something like


    Haste = 3+1.25n
    Mastery = 2+1.5n
    Crit = 3+n
    (Those numbers aren't exact, but give a rough estimate of what I'm trying to get across if you think mathematically best)

    That is, up until 5 targets Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales up in value a ton. Crit is about equal to Haste, but falls behind the other stats with more Haste.

    Single target Haste/Crit is very similar, with 2-4 cleave Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales best.

    HTH.

  2. #2882
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Does crit value drop when you get 4 piece? Sorry is this has been asked already but I just got 4 piece tonight. For example my stats are 105.03% mastery, 16.64% haste and 22.51% crit at the moment.

  3. #2883
    Last content I ended playing as affliction and in the beginning of 5.4 I changed to destruction but still gemmed and reforged as affliction. I realized that my dps was pretty good for my gear, but most guides I read said that mastery is better than haste, I ended changing for mastery and now my dps seems to have decreased...

  4. #2884
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    There isn't really a max cap on crit benefit. Jut get more Haste/Crit and like Werst said it's largely interchangeable. I have seen a symbiotic relationship with Haste/Crit such that too much of one makes it less beneficial than the other, assuming you have 4pc.

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    For single target, Mastery>Crit=Haste is not best. However, the more you AoE the better Mastery gets (and FAST).

    As a trend, what I see as the number of targets, n, increases, then the rough estimate value of the stats is something like


    Haste = 3+1.25n
    Mastery = 2+1.5n
    Crit = 3+n
    (Those numbers aren't exact, but give a rough estimate of what I'm trying to get across if you think mathematically best)

    That is, up until 5 targets Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales up in value a ton. Crit is about equal to Haste, but falls behind the other stats with more Haste.

    Single target Haste/Crit is very similar, with 2-4 cleave Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales best.

    HTH.
    So, for the great majority of the encounters in this tier, haste crit is the way to go...
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  5. #2885
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    So, for the great majority of the encounters in this tier, haste crit is the way to go...
    Unless you plan to reforge for every fight mastery > crit = haste is the way to go I believe

  6. #2886
    So, still learning the detailed intricacies here. Some more questions:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nshyn/advanced

    Trinkets: I have Warforged 2/2 Black Blood, Normal 2/2 Bindings, Normal 2/2 Kardis. Which is optimal setup? I am running Bindings and Black Blood currently and really trying to watch all procs and maximize ember usage appropriately. I have seen horrible RNG with the Black Blood. Both trinkets proc, then I wont see another Blood proc until after another Bindings proc which is 2 mins later.

    Stats: I haven't played Affliction at all this tier because I just now got my Meta gem this week as this is a reroll mid tier. However, I am using the "9778" style breakpoint with my current gear since I figured Haste is still better than crit on most fights due to the nature of multi-targets. Is this still correct? Or should I try a more Crit centric build where Mastery > Crit > Haste.

    I am also using reforgelite and I think for locks it is basically crap. A better tool to use?

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  7. #2887
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post

    I am also using reforgelite and I think for locks it is basically crap. A better tool to use?
    Reforgelite is awesome... at reforging my gear for me. I would never use the predetermined stat priorities however.

    Put in your own values in and make it do what you want, not what it wants.

  8. #2888
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I am also using reforgelite and I think for locks it is basically crap. A better tool to use?
    Change the values, and then change them back to what you want. It can be a bit finicky at times. Also, always hit enter after you enter in a value.

  9. #2889
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I am also using reforgelite and I think for locks it is basically crap. A better tool to use?
    I know you dislike it, but...AMR.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  10. #2890
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    So, still learning the detailed intricacies here. Some more questions:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nshyn/advanced

    Trinkets: I have Warforged 2/2 Black Blood, Normal 2/2 Bindings, Normal 2/2 Kardis. Which is optimal setup? I am running Bindings and Black Blood currently and really trying to watch all procs and maximize ember usage appropriately. I have seen horrible RNG with the Black Blood. Both trinkets proc, then I wont see another Blood proc until after another Bindings proc which is 2 mins later.

    Stats: I haven't played Affliction at all this tier because I just now got my Meta gem this week as this is a reroll mid tier. However, I am using the "9778" style breakpoint with my current gear since I figured Haste is still better than crit on most fights due to the nature of multi-targets. Is this still correct? Or should I try a more Crit centric build where Mastery > Crit > Haste.

    I am also using reforgelite and I think for locks it is basically crap. A better tool to use?
    The optimal trinket combo for destro probably Bindings and KTT. KTT is less RNGish vs. BBOY. If you play affliction, then Bindings and BBOY are probably the optimal choice.

  11. #2891
    Quote Originally Posted by OokingDooker View Post
    The optimal trinket combo for destro probably Bindings and KTT. KTT is less RNGish vs. BBOY. If you play affliction, then Bindings and BBOY are probably the optimal choice.
    I was wondering because of Multistrike etc. But the BBOY if timed correctly can have some pretty good cbolt casts depending on how you save up embers. I have seem nice dark soul, 3 embers saved bboy trinket procs for 3 cbolts in a row.

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  12. #2892
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I was wondering because of Multistrike etc. But the BBOY if timed correctly can have some pretty good cbolt casts depending on how you save up embers. I have seem nice dark soul, 3 embers saved bboy trinket procs for 3 cbolts in a row.
    You can fire off 3x chaos bolts during the 10 seconds of KTT or BBOY, assuming you don't have to move to avoid mechanics. The total damage in the end averages out about the same for both trinkets.
    Last edited by OokingDooker; 2013-11-01 at 11:24 PM.

  13. #2893
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    There isn't really a max cap on crit benefit. Jut get more Haste/Crit and like Werst said it's largely interchangeable. I have seen a symbiotic relationship with Haste/Crit such that too much of one makes it less beneficial than the other, assuming you have 4pc.

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    For single target, Mastery>Crit=Haste is not best. However, the more you AoE the better Mastery gets (and FAST).

    As a trend, what I see as the number of targets, n, increases, then the rough estimate value of the stats is something like


    Haste = 3+1.25n
    Mastery = 2+1.5n
    Crit = 3+n
    (Those numbers aren't exact, but give a rough estimate of what I'm trying to get across if you think mathematically best)

    That is, up until 5 targets Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales up in value a ton. Crit is about equal to Haste, but falls behind the other stats with more Haste.

    Single target Haste/Crit is very similar, with 2-4 cleave Haste is very, very good. Past that Mastery scales best.

    HTH.
    So what you're saying is, with 5 targets or more, Mastery Crit is better then Haste Crit... But this tier.. I can think of maybe...Sha of Pride (Small Adds), Galakras, MAYBE Dark Shamans (Green Oozs), Maybe Spoils? depending on how your group handles it.. Other then that, most fights are under the 2-4 you said making the 1-4 fights > 5+ fights. I obviously don't know how bad Haste scales after 5+, however wouldn't it be best seeing as how their are more fights that are "Single to Three" Targets to go Haste > Crit > Master rather then the Master > Crit >= Haste we've doing?

  14. #2894
    Quote Originally Posted by Toonic View Post
    So what you're saying is, with 5 targets or more, Mastery Crit is better then Haste Crit... But this tier.. I can think of maybe...Sha of Pride (Small Adds), Galakras, MAYBE Dark Shamans (Green Oozs), Maybe Spoils? depending on how your group handles it.. Other then that, most fights are under the 2-4 you said making the 1-4 fights > 5+ fights. I obviously don't know how bad Haste scales after 5+, however wouldn't it be best seeing as how their are more fights that are "Single to Three" Targets to go Haste > Crit > Master rather then the Master > Crit >= Haste we've doing?
    I've been asking exactly the same several weeks now. It seems like destro locks are a still a bit "numb" concerning the dethrone (??) of mastery from most of Soo fights and no one wants to admit it openly :P
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  15. #2895
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Interesting conclusions.

    Would you agree that Mastery is perhaps a better stat when you can 'pad' (I know some people hate that word) or if you are going for ranks e.g. havocing chaos bolt when it would be better to havoc incinerates/getting bigger overkill on shadowburns?

    But when it comes down to a progression fight where boss damage maters, haste/crit is the way to go?

  16. #2896
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    I've been asking exactly the same several weeks now. It seems like destro locks are a still a bit "numb" concerning the dethrone (??) of mastery from most of Soo fights and no one wants to admit it openly :P
    Exactly. I mean, I understand why everyone would recommend Master > Crit=Haste, due to the fact that there are about...6? Fights that have a semi-heavy AoE fight/can use AoE in. However, half of the fights are only "Slight" AoE bursts and then you go back to Single Target. Honestly the only right with constant AoE is Galakars and even then thats only for the add phase.

    Personally, I think I'll try out Haste > Crit > Mastery this Sunday and see how it goes.

  17. #2897
    Any fight with even strictly havoc cleave is going to see a larger benefit from mastery. Every fight in siege has some form of cleaving or AoE with the exception of thok, which has aoe at one specific point in the fight for all of 10 seconds. Mastery is also going to be strong on any fights where you can very easily generate a lot of embers. With that being said, the differences between going Mastery>Crit>Haste and Mastery>Haste>Crit are extremely minor
    Last edited by Jetjaguar; 2013-11-02 at 08:01 PM.
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  18. #2898
    Quote Originally Posted by Toonic View Post
    So what you're saying is, with 5 targets or more, Mastery Crit is better then Haste Crit... But this tier.. I can think of maybe...Sha of Pride (Small Adds), Galakras, MAYBE Dark Shamans (Green Oozs), Maybe Spoils? depending on how your group handles it.. Other then that, most fights are under the 2-4 you said making the 1-4 fights > 5+ fights. I obviously don't know how bad Haste scales after 5+, however wouldn't it be best seeing as how their are more fights that are "Single to Three" Targets to go Haste > Crit > Master rather then the Master > Crit >= Haste we've doing?
    You have to consider overall damage, rather than taking stat weights at face value.

    Yes, Mastery gives you the best DPS increase per stat when there's a lot of targets. Yes, Haste gives you the best DPS increase per stat when there's only one target. How much total damage do you gain per stat on an actual fight? A significant damage increase in AoE is worth more than a proportionally significant damage increase for single target. You do a LOT more damage while AoEing (which Mastery is best for) than while single target'ing (which Haste is best for).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Interesting conclusions.

    Would you agree that Mastery is perhaps a better stat when you can 'pad' (I know some people hate that word) or if you are going for ranks e.g. havocing chaos bolt when it would be better to havoc incinerates/getting bigger overkill on shadowburns?

    But when it comes down to a progression fight where boss damage maters, haste/crit is the way to go?
    Haste/crit is a single target stat. Mastery is an AoE stat. Think of it that way and it should be fairly easy to conclude what stat would be best depending on where you actually need damage in a fight.

    It's obviously more nuanced than that, but yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjaguar View Post
    Any fight with even strictly havoc cleave is going to see a larger benefit from mastery. Every fight in siege has some form of cleaving or AoE with the exception of thok, which has aoe at one specific point in the fight for all of 10 seconds. Mastery is also going to be strong on any fights where you can very easily generate a lot of embers. With that being said, the differences between going Mastery>Crit>Haste and Mastery>Haste>Crit are extremely minor
    Mastery will get better in value than pure single target, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better than Haste/Crit.

  19. #2899
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    You have to consider overall damage, rather than taking stat weights at face value.

    Yes, Mastery gives you the best DPS increase per stat when there's a lot of targets. Yes, Haste gives you the best DPS increase per stat when there's only one target. How much total damage do you gain per stat on an actual fight? A significant damage increase in AoE is worth more than a proportionally significant damage increase for single target. You do a LOT more damage while AoEing (which Mastery is best for) than while single target'ing (which Haste is best for).

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    Haste/crit is a single target stat. Mastery is an AoE stat. Think of it that way and it should be fairly easy to conclude what stat would be best depending on where you actually need damage in a fight.

    It's obviously more nuanced than that, but yeah.

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    Mastery will get better in value than pure single target, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better than Haste/Crit.
    Well, if all stats are FAIRLY close to each other. Couldn't someone go something like.. For example. Mastery > Haste > Crit. Allowing us to still be good in AoE fights while still giving us a decent damage increase in Single Target? Or is Crit highly valued over Mastery for Single Target and AoE?

  20. #2900
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    I have been reading the last 15 posts here on optimal reforges??

    So Is it this ??

    1. Pure Single Target ? H>C>M
    2. 2-4 ? H>C=M
    3. Cleave? M>C=H

    Can someone clarify this for me please?? because i have been only rolling on mastrey gear the last one month and the only gear i have is mastrey/hit Mastrey/haste and some M/C

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