1. #3841
    Mechagnome Crisius's Avatar
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    I've seen plenty of destruction warlocks who do okay damage, I've seen plenty who do horrible damage and I've seen warlocks who do shittons of damage. Saying there is no depth or level of understanding behind destruction gameplay makes me think you're not a particularly good player, most likely one that falls into category one or, in worst case, two.

  2. #3842
    Quick question. On heroic Malk, is 90% uptime on immolate an acceptable number or should the uptime be higher?

  3. #3843
    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    Quick question. On heroic Malk, is 90% uptime on immolate an acceptable number or should the uptime be higher?
    I'll have to double check my logs but I think it should be higher.

    Edit: based on my non consistent performance I have anywhere from 80-95% uptime but I think some of that is attributed to being knocked up or having to moving from a bubble spawning mid cast. A lot of rng plays into that fight making each pull inherently different. One of the tools I use is to teleport down if I get knocked up to reduce time where I cannot cast but if you get unlucky and targeted too often or can not teleport due to an orb spawning at a bad time then again things happen. Long story short I'd say an average of 90% on a fight like that is acceptable.
    Last edited by Xanattos; 2014-08-21 at 03:00 AM.

  4. #3844
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    How do you guys rate the weapons? Right now I have HWF Wand off spoils and HWF offhand from Thokk. Thinking of changing out to HWF staff off Sha. I know I would lose out on a lot of int and some hit but that mastery makes me drool a bit. Opinions?

  5. #3845
    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    How do you guys rate the weapons? Right now I have HWF Wand off spoils and HWF offhand from Thokk. Thinking of changing out to HWF staff off Sha. I know I would lose out on a lot of int and some hit but that mastery makes me drool a bit. Opinions?
    Wouldn't you be losing a socket as well. I know the off hand off Garry is optimal but I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between that. If you're in the same boat as me and looking for reasons to spend valor give the staff a try and see if you like it better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xuros View Post
    How do you guys rate the weapons? Right now I have HWF Wand off spoils and HWF offhand from Thokk. Thinking of changing out to HWF staff off Sha. I know I would lose out on a lot of int and some hit but that mastery makes me drool a bit. Opinions?
    Wouldn't you be losing a socket as well. I know the off hand off Garry is optimal but I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between that. If you're in the same boat as me and looking for reasons to spend valor give the staff a try and see if you like it better.

  6. #3846
    A couple of questions:

    Recently my guild fed me a ton of heroic warforged gear. I rolled on it thinking "Surely 4 different people need 4 different heroic warforged pieces of gear that don't take away their tier bonuses...right?" and no, it all went to me. Previously I had 4 tier pieces from normal, and now I have 4 heroic warforged pieces replacing them. Will my damage be better keeping a 4 set, or will this heroic warforged stuff be better?

    Also, how exactly should I be doing my opening on heroic shamans? At the moment I'm basically doing my single target rotation on a wolf, and then havocing another with a chaos bolt so that they die as fast as possible, however this is the one fight in the instance I'm much lower on the charts than I usually am. I know I can get more damage overall from F&B, but I figure it's more worth it to get the wolves dead ASAP, no? Regardless, I don't know the best way to do an AOE opener, so any help would be nice.

    Sorry if I seem slightly delirious, I'm kind of lacking on sleep as I'm writing this.

  7. #3847
    Sorry to sound like a dick but you know that you can check this (the gear question) in SimCraft, right?

  8. #3848
    My instinct would tell me that on Dark Shamans(only 4 targets), the opener should be:
    pre-cast Incin - FnB Immo - RoF - conflagx2 - incinerate to 1.6-1.8 embers - Havoc double CBs

  9. #3849
    Mechagnome Crisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhachlirith View Post
    My instinct would tell me that on Dark Shamans(only 4 targets), the opener should be:
    pre-cast Incin - FnB Immo - RoF - conflagx2 - incinerate to 1.6-1.8 embers - Havoc double CBs
    That would leave you ember starved very fast.

    Pre-cast incinerate & immolate on one target as per usual. Then drop a rain of fire and pop your doomguard while you hope for some embers. You might want to incinerate once without FNB after the doomguard is up, but depending on your crit it might not be necessary.

    Once you're confident in your embers (1.4-1.6 should be enough) throw a double FNB conflag for the instant ember refund. Incinerate or immolate takes too long to give you a refund. Be wary of the tiny refund delay and the offchance that FNB might toggle off. Continue keeping up rain of fire and incinerate with FNB 'til you're at ~3 embers. Then drop an immolate. Save havoc for a triple shadowburn on dogs.

    DPS on the dogs honestly doesn't matter on that fight, but even by using FNB you won't be doing much less on the dogs than you would with single-target, and you have the added benefit of doing high DPS on the shamans aswell.

    The main things to worry about on this fight in general is pre-emptively dumping an appropriate amount of embers between waves of adds, and stopping aoe before the adds start dying so you don't end up 1 ember by overusing FNB on a low amount of targets. If you're running double-boss strategy, keeping immolate ticking on both with rain of fire on top gives you a massive pool of embers.
    Last edited by Crisius; 2014-08-24 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #3850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acrylik View Post
    A couple of questions:

    Recently my guild fed me a ton of heroic warforged gear. I rolled on it thinking "Surely 4 different people need 4 different heroic warforged pieces of gear that don't take away their tier bonuses...right?" and no, it all went to me. Previously I had 4 tier pieces from normal, and now I have 4 heroic warforged pieces replacing them. Will my damage be better keeping a 4 set, or will this heroic warforged stuff be better?
    A few post back the highest difference was simmed lfr or flex for heroic warforged, it was an 8k ST loss to use warforged.
    Keep 4 set. Sim your gear.

    The dogs only need to be dead before you split them up imo. But as always, do what your raid team needs the most. Do they need you to single target the dogs? Or will they die from cleave anyhow and you wasted dps ?

  11. #3851
    Quote Originally Posted by Crisius View Post
    That would leave you ember starved very fast.

    Pre-cast incinerate & immolate on one target as per usual. Then drop a rain of fire and pop your doomguard while you hope for some embers. You might want to incinerate once without FNB after the doomguard is up, but depending on your crit it might not be necessary.

    Once you're confident in your embers (1.4-1.6 should be enough) throw a double FNB conflag for the instant ember refund. Incinerate or immolate takes too long to give you a refund. Be wary of the tiny refund delay and the offchance that FNB might toggle off. Continue keeping up rain of fire and incinerate with FNB 'til you're at ~3 embers. Then drop an immolate. Save havoc for a triple shadowburn on dogs.

    DPS on the dogs honestly doesn't matter on that fight, but even by using FNB you won't be doing much less on the dogs than you would with single-target, and you have the added benefit of doing high DPS on the shamans aswell.

    The main things to worry about on this fight in general is pre-emptively dumping an appropriate amount of embers between waves of adds, and stopping aoe before the adds start dying so you don't end up 1 ember by overusing FNB on a low amount of targets. If you're running double-boss strategy, keeping immolate ticking on both with rain of fire on top gives you a massive pool of embers.
    This is pretty much what i do with the difference of I burn 1 conflag then a few incinerates to ensure I have no issues with embers and then cleave your shadowburns. Then cleaving shadow burns to the boss from the slimes will help as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post
    A few post back the highest difference was simmed lfr or flex for heroic warforged, it was an 8k ST loss to use warforged.
    Keep 4 set. Sim your gear.

    The dogs only need to be dead before you split them up imo. But as always, do what your raid team needs the most. Do they need you to single target the dogs? Or will they die from cleave anyhow and you wasted dps ?
    Yeah 4set for destro is a must have, though do consider your off set piece and your off spec gear as this could help you on other encounters unless you are purely destro.

  12. #3852
    Quote Originally Posted by Crisius View Post
    I've seen plenty of destruction warlocks who do okay damage, I've seen plenty who do horrible damage and I've seen warlocks who do shittons of damage. Saying there is no depth or level of understanding behind destruction gameplay makes me think you're not a particularly good player, most likely one that falls into category one or, in worst case, two.
    Well to be honest, Destruction is pretty simple... Making Havoc and Shadowburn sound like some sort of super advanced secret technique is pretty silly, to be honest. You still need to pay attention to do well, but it's not really hard.

    Now, I am not saying that, let's say, Enhancement Shamans solve mathematical equations to do DPS, but I am pretty confident that they are more complex than Destro locks.

    And yeah, horrible players are horrible and exceptional players are exceptional - happens everywhere.

  13. #3853
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well to be honest, Destruction is pretty simple... Making Havoc and Shadowburn sound like some sort of super advanced secret technique is pretty silly, to be honest. You still need to pay attention to do well, but it's not really hard.

    Now, I am not saying that, let's say, Enhancement Shamans solve mathematical equations to do DPS, but I am pretty confident that they are more complex than Destro locks.

    And yeah, horrible players are horrible and exceptional players are exceptional - happens everywhere.
    I could just sit here and say watching a few abilities come off CD and then pressing them isn't very hard either but really its a pointless topic. There isn't anything exceptionally difficult about any spec or class so trying to compare them like that is just... not something you should do.

  14. #3854
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well to be honest, Destruction is pretty simple... Making Havoc and Shadowburn sound like some sort of super advanced secret technique is pretty silly, to be honest. You still need to pay attention to do well, but it's not really hard.

    Now, I am not saying that, let's say, Enhancement Shamans solve mathematical equations to do DPS, but I am pretty confident that they are more complex than Destro locks.

    And yeah, horrible players are horrible and exceptional players are exceptional - happens everywhere.
    Enhancement is literally whack a mole with what lights up. I LOVE the spec and actively play my enhance in heroic raids, but it doesn't have the same level of resource management as Destruction. Juggling MW stacks adds some depth, but I wouldn't say it makes it any harder than Destruction (or vice-versa).

  15. #3855
    Mechagnome Crisius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Now, I am not saying that, let's say, Enhancement Shamans solve mathematical equations to do DPS, but I am pretty confident that they are more complex than Destro locks.
    Enhancement is not complex at all. Take that from a person who is actually playing one.

  16. #3856
    Stood in the Fire Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crisius View Post
    Enhancement is not complex at all. Take that from a person who is actually playing one.
    Destruction is hard please validate my spec
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  17. #3857
    Hey there, I have a human destro warlock, 568ilvl, 450k burst and 250k sustained. I am hoping people on here could help me as I am stuck on how I can better my warlock, a lot of people are saying I should be able to do more dps. I've edited my weights using max dps because that was all I could find in my searching and it did boost me to what mr robots original optimisation was. If anyone can give me some weights to try out I would be greatful, if you wanted to see my character she is Nephthys - Dentarg EU if you wanted to check her out, I am moving to lightbringer EU Friday so that will change then, but I am hoping some people can give me a hand

    Neph

  18. #3858
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Changing your stats likely won't do anything for your DPS. Stop thinking stats = everything.

    Get us some logs and we can help you.

  19. #3859
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    Changing your stats likely won't do anything for your DPS. Stop thinking stats = everything.

    Get us some logs and we can help you.
    I don't think anyone in our guild logs our raids. :/

  20. #3860
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephthys-EU View Post
    I don't think anyone in our guild logs our raids. :/
    Do it yourself then, its not like it takes much effort.

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