1. #541
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Yeah, but it's well possible that your "normal" BiS is a Haste/Mastery item, but you can actually get your hands on a Thunderforged Crit/Hit one. This comepletely changes everything else as well. BiS is a collection that toghether is the best you can get, while seperate pieces might not actually sim out as the best for that slot individually.

    Anyway, I haven't looked, but SimC should use a profile they think is BiS for Destro, might that not be a good starting point?
    You're still missing the point that best in slot is exactly that... best in slot. I dont really care if "oh but you might not get thunderforged", doesnt matter, i want a bis list. Also, the simcraft BiS lists have 99.9% of the time in the past been god awful dog shit. Best in Slot is exactly that, the best IN slot. Once again I'll ask, if anyone has this list, or knows where to find one please send it my way.

    Also thanks for the dps listings for the trinkets based on spec, was VERY helpful.

  2. #542

    how to play warlock on horidon heroic?

    i plan to play destruction for that fight, and i wanna know if there is some tricks and tips
    for handling the beast and everything that going on.

    atm we have some problems at 2nd and 3rd gate
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  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    You're still missing the point that best in slot is exactly that... best in slot. I dont really care if "oh but you might not get thunderforged", doesnt matter, i want a bis list. Also, the simcraft BiS lists have 99.9% of the time in the past been god awful dog shit. Best in Slot is exactly that, the best IN slot. Once again I'll ask, if anyone has this list, or knows where to find one please send it my way.

    Also thanks for the dps listings for the trinkets based on spec, was VERY helpful.
    What they are attempting to get through to you is that is there no definitive "best in slot". There are many different set-ups for every spec and it's near impossible to say "this one gear set-up is THE best out of all of them and I won't go away from any other piece". That wasn't true in T14 and won't be true in T15 and I doubt it will be true going forward from this point on.
    Not#1974

  4. #544
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    You're still missing the point that best in slot is exactly that... best in slot. I dont really care if "oh but you might not get thunderforged", doesnt matter, i want a bis list. Also, the simcraft BiS lists have 99.9% of the time in the past been god awful dog shit. Best in Slot is exactly that, the best IN slot. Once again I'll ask, if anyone has this list, or knows where to find one please send it my way.

    Also thanks for the dps listings for the trinkets based on spec, was VERY helpful.
    Edit the stat weights on askmrrobot to your liking, and then load the best in slot list for the stat set that you want. It will give you a bis list based on your parameters, and will give you a list of items in a diminishing order that fit that slot. Probably as close as you will come to a solid bis list.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    What they are attempting to get through to you is that is there no definitive "best in slot". There are many different set-ups for every spec and it's near impossible to say "this one gear set-up is THE best out of all of them and I won't go away from any other piece". That wasn't true in T14 and won't be true in T15 and I doubt it will be true going forward from this point on.
    Yeah. Between reforging, thunderforged, item upgrades and everything, its nearly impossible to write a definitive BiS these days.
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  6. #546
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    Yup, a bis list is more or less a personal list these days. Depending on what stat set you prefer and what kind of content you are able to get into.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Yeah. Between reforging, thunderforged, item upgrades and everything, its nearly impossible to write a definitive BiS these days.
    Exactly.

    You can always make a "x" piece of gear should be better than "y" piece of gear based on the stats on the item and how much iLvl is distributed to each stat but there's literally no way you can say "z" piece of gear is going to be king over all others (outside of perhaps Ra-den gear since it's just an outright iLvl gain no matter what, especially Thunderforged).
    Not#1974

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemie View Post
    You can cast it at 10 stacks, if the Chaos Bolt is cast at 10 stacks and lands when your buff is gone, the Chaos Bolt will still act as if it was at 10 stacks.

    I treat my Wushoolay as if it was a Dark Soul, perfect trinket when you don't use T14 4-piece.
    This is either wrong or right, depending on what you mean by casting.

    Any cast snapshots the stats of the caster when the cast finishes, not when it starts. As such you'd want the end of the cast of Chaos Bolt to happen when you're at 10 stacks, not just starting to cast it.

  9. #549
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    What they are attempting to get through to you is that is there no definitive "best in slot". There are many different set-ups for every spec and it's near impossible to say "this one gear set-up is THE best out of all of them and I won't go away from any other piece". That wasn't true in T14 and won't be true in T15 and I doubt it will be true going forward from this point on.
    Mathematically there will always be a BEST IN SLOT. There always will be, always has been. Period. It was most definitely true in t14, and will most definitely be true in t15, t16, all the way through t100. There will 100% always be an absolute best in slot. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong, and/or to lazy ( much like myself ), to have made one. That however, does not mean in any way shape and/or form, there is no "best in slot".

  10. #550
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    Mathematically there will always be a BEST IN SLOT. There always will be, always has been. Period.
    No there is not, since your stats can change completely for one boss to another depending on your Grimoire.

    And I doubt a BIS list full of Thunderforged items would be so interesting.

    It was more or less doable for T14 since you were always playing GoSac as Destro.
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-03-24 at 10:22 PM.
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  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    Mathematically there will always be a BEST IN SLOT. There always will be, always has been. Period. It was most definitely true in t14, and will most definitely be true in t15, t16, all the way through t100. There will 100% always be an absolute best in slot. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong, and/or to lazy ( much like myself ), to have made one. That however, does not mean in any way shape and/or form, there is no "best in slot".
    BiS lists are an outdated concept with thunderforged gear, and even more so when a fight's mechanics dictates what stats are best.

    The item with the most total stats will most likely be the BiS for that slot, and there's no real reason to make a BiS list just for that reason.

    If you really want one, make one yourself. I think you may be one of the few people who feels the need to have one.


    Also,

    Please stop arguing about BiS lists.

    This line of conversation has no bearing on a Destruction discussion, and there's no BiS list possible anyways, as Destruction has multiple stat priorities depending on fight mechanics.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    Also thanks for the dps listings for the trinkets based on spec, was VERY helpful.
    What!? Where!?

  13. #553
    Dreadlord Cebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    BiS lists are an outdated concept with thunderforged gear, and even more so when a fight's mechanics dictates what stats are best.

    The item with the most total stats will most likely be the BiS for that slot, and there's no real reason to make a BiS list just for that reason.

    If you really want one, make one yourself. I think you may be one of the few people who feels the need to have one.


    Also,

    Please stop arguing about BiS lists.

    This line of conversation has no bearing on a Destruction discussion, and there's no BiS list possible anyways, as Destruction has multiple stat priorities depending on fight mechanics.
    This is the most rediculous statement i've ever read. Im done, people here clearly dont understand basic mathematical concepts to know there is most certainly a best in fucking slot. Also ill be awaiting my ban since everyone here is over sensitive.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 05:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    No there is not, since your stats can change completely for one boss to another depending on your Grimoire.

    And I doubt a BIS list full of Thunderforged items would be so interesting.

    It was more or less doable for T14 since you were always playing GoSac as Destro.
    Also, once again, there is still mathematically a full BIS list ( Make on for single target and multi-target i dont care, its still a invaluable tool to have when trying to properly distribute loot within a raid, to know "this is best in slot for x class, versus 2nd best in slot for y class " )
    Last edited by Cebel; 2013-03-24 at 11:06 PM.

  14. #554
    As much as I don't mind helping people - you're asking to be hand held to the most minute detail for various types of encounters. If you're so hell bent on having one available for people, maybe you should do it yourself since none of us Warlocks who are in top guilds and contribute to the community can help you.

    On a completely related note about Destro since I'm still more or less learning to "perfect" my play...What is the optimal uptime of RoF single target? Having to keep a 6s DoT "up" 100% of the time seems very tedious and not worth the global every 6s even for the shard generation.
    Not#1974

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    This is the most rediculous statement i've ever read. Im done, people here clearly dont understand basic mathematical concepts to know there is most certainly a best in fucking slot. Also ill be awaiting my ban since everyone here is over sensitive.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 05:09 PM ----------



    Also, once again, there is still mathematically a full BIS list ( Make on for single target and multi-target i dont care, its still a invaluable tool to have when trying to properly distribute loot within a raid, to know "this is best in slot for x class, versus 2nd best in slot for y class " )


    i took the liberty of working on a BIS list for you Pixul, for you headpiece you should most definitely be wearing a muzzle.

    Flaming will not be tolerated on these forums, this is your only warning.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2013-03-24 at 11:27 PM.

  16. #556
    Some of this depends on how your raid positions, but I made sure to position the adds on the 4 door phases between me and the ghost. During the four dour phases, Fire and Brimstone spells will easily take care of knocking the add back.

    During the door phases, I ran with an observer, and just left it on Horridon. Once the door phases were done, I switched to my imp, and switched the imp to the ghost if it got close just long enough to get me some breathing room before putting it back on the boss.

    During door phases, I made sure to have horridon focused, and made a havoc focus macro that I used to cleave shadowburns onto horridon. Between doors I dumped any extra embers I had into horridon as chaos bolts, and when back to my routine.

  17. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixul View Post
    This is the most rediculous statement i've ever read. Im done, people here clearly dont understand basic mathematical concepts to know there is most certainly a best in fucking slot. Also ill be awaiting my ban since everyone here is over sensitive.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-24 at 05:09 PM ----------



    Also, once again, there is still mathematically a full BIS list ( Make on for single target and multi-target i dont care, its still a invaluable tool to have when trying to properly distribute loot within a raid, to know "this is best in slot for x class, versus 2nd best in slot for y class " )
    I think you're not getting what they are telling you here.

    In a very specific contet (i.e. specific fight and strategy, specific spec & talents & glyphs choices, with/without thunderforged items, with exactly N item upgrades), there is indeed a "BiS list" as you say.

    But that far it's a purely theoretical question. The actually interesting part is what it can be useful for. And the answer is pretty much nothing, with the following reasons :
    - Relative secondary stats values vary widely from fight to fight (no single BiS list will be optima for all of them)
    - A BiS list that allows full thunderforged items is totally unrealistic (you will not get all the items you want in thunderforged version)
    - A BiS list that does not allow thunderforged items will probably be suboptimal in your situation (you will get some thunderforged items that will be better than your BiS items)

    This especially means it cannot help you gear the right way, which was the main interest in having so called "BiS lists" back when they were still useful.
    Last edited by Surutcra; 2013-03-24 at 11:44 PM.
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  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoiceofreason View Post
    i took the liberty of working on a BIS list for you Pixul, for you headpiece you should most definitely be wearing a muzzle.

    Flaming will not be tolerated on these forums, this is your only warning.
    Oh, c'mon, xskarma. This was fairly clever and gave me a good chuckle!

    What I'd like to see happen is some compendium of encounter-specific Destruction tricks, like the heroic Horridon question that got moved in here, but where each boss has a list of ways people have found to exploit Destruction's mechanics. It can be as simple as cleave Shadowburn onto Horridon on cooldown, or if you're GoSup then put your pet on him the whole fight. Or it can be something most people wouldn't think of, and I'll pull an example from Demonology - With the Lei Shen trinket they can go GoSac on Council and spread four 100% crit Dooms for Wild Imp mania and do dps unattainable by conventional play.

    My own tip seems kind of lame in comparison, but on Primordius drop Immolate from your rotation. GoSac, keep MF RoF on the biggest cluster of oozes, and spam the hell out of Chaos Bolt and conflag anytime you need to move (but don't ever sit on two charges). Sub 20%, RoF and spam Shadowburn. This is for normal, since I'm not doing heroics just yet.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Avido77 View Post
    What I'd like to see happen is some compendium of encounter-specific Destruction tricks, like the heroic Horridon question that got moved in here, but where each boss has a list of ways people have found to exploit Destruction's mechanics.
    There is a thread with such tricks for elemental shamans. Helped my ele friend a lot. I would pretty much welcome such a thread for warlocks. Not only destruction.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    This is either wrong or right, depending on what you mean by casting.

    Any cast snapshots the stats of the caster when the cast finishes, not when it starts. As such you'd want the end of the cast of Chaos Bolt to happen when you're at 10 stacks, not just starting to cast it.
    Yes, exactly.

    Thanks for clarifying and sorry for my sometimes poor english skills!

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-25 at 02:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    On a completely related note about Destro since I'm still more or less learning to "perfect" my play...What is the optimal uptime of RoF single target? Having to keep a 6s DoT "up" 100% of the time seems very tedious and not worth the global every 6s even for the shard generation.
    With the increased ember regen from RoF since 5.2, it's probably a good idea to have it as much as humanly possible while still consuming all your Backdrafts with Incinerates, casting Chaos Bolts, Havocs, Immolates and the rest of your "priority list".

    This is an interesting question though, which I will be investigating starting in 10 minutes on a training dummy for 2-3 hours. I'll see how many emberbits I can get in 10 minutes while only using RoF to proc my LoTC every time it's ready, versus using it anytime I don't have 33+ emberbits, any backdrafts nor Havoc up.

    What I've seen and felt though is exactly what you've seen and felt, it's just sucky to keep it up non-stop.

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