1. #3581
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    I'm currently on my Tablet, which is why I can't read Warcraftlogs very well. But there are two things I instantly recognize: you do almost zero AE damage while your colleague does some millions. Second thing is that he manages to get out several additional shadowburns. There is definitely room for you to improve.
    Imho the thing that separates mediocre from good wls is clever usage of shadowburn and havoc. That said: you casted more havocs than he did. If you used them well, that already was a good thing!
    Maybe I'll find some more facts when returning to my PC later.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  2. #3582
    Quote Originally Posted by missbrooklyn25 View Post
    Hey all. I was hoping someone could take a look at this http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...et=43&fight=18 Logs for our best heroic garrosh attempt. I'm not the most confident in my destro playing and usually second guessing my self on stats and what i should stick with for this fight. But i defiantly know i should be doing more with my gear. I'm just not sure where i'm fucking up. During the fight I don't feel like i'm doing anything wrong but the numbers don't lie. Any help would be great. We're soooooo damn close to killing him and I want to feel like I did my part.

    ETA: I'm camii, not madler btw. I mean , if i was doing what he was doing i wouldn't feel as bad lol .
    He's getting off more shadowburn cleaves on adds in p1 and weapons, which is giving him a dps boost in itself, and couple that with the extra embers he gains, it allows him to cast more Chaos Bolts on garrosh (40 v 33) that would be the striking difference that pops out straight away to me, if you can clamp down shadowburning then you'll catch up to him in no time. Just make sure to shadowburn a dying weapon right before it does for embers, and havoc the boss and shadowburn adds in p1.

    As for stats, you're fully crit stacked, that for me atleast yielded terrible results for destro, I personally would advise you to try out a more haste>=crit approach, as in either balance them out as much as possible, or prioritize haste a little bit (keep in mind this is a personal preference for myself, others may disagree)
    Last edited by Valq; 2014-03-29 at 07:59 AM.

  3. #3583
    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    I'm currently on my Tablet, which is why I can't read Warcraftlogs very well. But there are two things I instantly recognize: you do almost zero AE damage while your colleague does some millions. Second thing is that he manages to get out several additional shadowburns. There is definitely room for you to improve.
    Imho the thing that separates mediocre from good wls is clever usage of shadowburn and havoc. That said: you casted more havocs than he did. If you used them well, that already was a good thing!
    Maybe I'll find some more facts when returning to my PC later.
    Yeah the problem in phase 1 for me is when the first set of adds comes out with the weapon on top of them i lock up pretty bad, after that i'm okay with lag. I try to get a ROF out , and f&b immo with an incinerate before i try to get SB from the adds on to him with Havoc. I've been using it glyphed on this fight. Sometimes i do get them out onto him other times i think i just lagged so bad i don't. I use a mouse over with SB. Thanks for giving it a look.

    @Dizii, thank you for giving it a look! Yeah i switched last night to a higher haste build for our next night on him.

  4. #3584
    Mechagnome Erathus's Avatar
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    Guys which is better for Challenge Modes, GoSac or GoSup ?


  5. #3585
    Quote Originally Posted by missbrooklyn25 View Post
    Yeah the problem in phase 1 for me is when the first set of adds comes out with the weapon on top of them i lock up pretty bad, after that i'm okay with lag. I try to get a ROF out , and f&b immo with an incinerate before i try to get SB from the adds on to him with Havoc. I've been using it glyphed on this fight. Sometimes i do get them out onto him other times i think i just lagged so bad i don't. I use a mouse over with SB. Thanks for giving it a look.

    @Dizii, thank you for giving it a look! Yeah i switched last night to a higher haste build for our next night on him.
    You may want to try without the glyph as I don't feel you are gaining anything by using it. I took a look at your posted log for every attempt over 9 minutes and not once did you cleave more than 3 shadowburns to garrosh in the opening minute. Those other 3 charges are just wasted. Unless your strat is depending on it for 1st heart, you will be able to get lots of embers from weapons in phase 2 with unglyphed and using with 4p proc.

    Another thing I noticed it your opener seems to vary. Half of the attempts you get 3 CB out in the first minute and the other half 5-6 CB's. Perhaps you are putting too much focus on trying to snip adds as several of those attempts your shadowburn dmg was higher than your CB, which I don't know how that would be possible with opening CB's hitting as hard as they do.

    With F&B Immolate with all the extra Crit from int procs and Dark Soul, you should be filling embers faster than you can cast cb's. able to chain several CB's into Garrosh.

    Everything above said, if your group is in phase 4, you really don't need to change anything in phase 1 unless its still messy at times. those were just observations. The interesting part about this fight is the DPS check points you need to hit and once you hit them it doesn't matter how crappy you did prior. You WANT to get him super low between first and second heart phase. The lower you get him the easier the transition to phase 3 is, however once you push him to 10% and trigger next phase, nothing before matters anymore.

    Which part of the fight do you feel needs to be cleaned up a bit? I would suspect if your in phase 4 its the phase 3 push and transition to phase 4. Biggest contributor to lower dps is being slow at dealing with empowered whirling. Faster your group kills its adds faster they can get back to boss. I found if you are making the DPS check point to get garrosh sub 20% for the phase 3 whirling, havocing your add is great way to instantly kill it by shadowburning Garrosh. This frees you up to support the rest of the players killing adds.

  6. #3586
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    You may want to try without the glyph as I don't feel you are gaining anything by using it. I took a look at your posted log for every attempt over 9 minutes and not once did you cleave more than 3 shadowburns to garrosh in the opening minute. Those other 3 charges are just wasted. Unless your strat is depending on it for 1st heart, you will be able to get lots of embers from weapons in phase 2 with unglyphed and using with 4p proc.

    Another thing I noticed it your opener seems to vary. Half of the attempts you get 3 CB out in the first minute and the other half 5-6 CB's. Perhaps you are putting too much focus on trying to snip adds as several of those attempts your shadowburn dmg was higher than your CB, which I don't know how that would be possible with opening CB's hitting as hard as they do.

    With F&B Immolate with all the extra Crit from int procs and Dark Soul, you should be filling embers faster than you can cast cb's. able to chain several CB's into Garrosh.

    Everything above said, if your group is in phase 4, you really don't need to change anything in phase 1 unless its still messy at times. those were just observations. The interesting part about this fight is the DPS check points you need to hit and once you hit them it doesn't matter how crappy you did prior. You WANT to get him super low between first and second heart phase. The lower you get him the easier the transition to phase 3 is, however once you push him to 10% and trigger next phase, nothing before matters anymore.

    Which part of the fight do you feel needs to be cleaned up a bit? I would suspect if your in phase 4 its the phase 3 push and transition to phase 4. Biggest contributor to lower dps is being slow at dealing with empowered whirling. Faster your group kills its adds faster they can get back to boss. I found if you are making the DPS check point to get garrosh sub 20% for the phase 3 whirling, havocing your add is great way to instantly kill it by shadowburning Garrosh. This frees you up to support the rest of the players killing adds.
    Yeah for sure, i was thinking tonight i wasn't going to use the glyph because like you said i'm just not able to get it off in that time with the adds and the weapon down i think i drop to like 3-5 fps. I'm fine right after the weapon dies. I think i'm just wasting cb i could be getting off. I won't be able to tell if it was making that much of a difference during heart phase though until i give it a try.

    We're not killing adds from the whirl our monk tank is kiting them. The 4th malice is what's wiping us in phase 4. I think i need to better during phase 3. Soon as we come out of the second heart my DS and Bindings are usually proccing right then, but with the movement i don't feel like i get alot of good out of it. I need to get better there. I think with the higher haste im running tonight it will help squeezing out those cbs. I just don't want to be stuck as an mc coming out the weapon cause i was slow moving so then i hold back. I just need to judge moments better. Thank you for looking and the help!

  7. #3587
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Not sure how your strategy works, but I found personal teleport to be invaluable on this fight back in my old guild.

    Before going into second transition I put it down, and it was in perfect position for me to use it twice in order to get back in for MC's.

    Put it down again in p3 after the first MC's and could use it to get back in following the whirling and subsequent desecrate.

    I guess it depends on boss positioning and strategy.

  8. #3588
    We killed him!! Tonight was not a raid night but we were pretty close on thurs night and if we had the people they wanted to set something up. I felt better on our attempts with the higher haste, and non glyphed havoc. I messed up on our kill attempt but on the other ones it was actually going alot better than what i was normally. I don't have the logs yet but i'll post em when i do. Oh and heroic boa! Coined gold though, but i'm still happy as shit that we got him. 190 something attempts. Thanks everybody for the help!!

  9. #3589
    Okay, first of all, great guide, have been very helpfull in the start of MoP and through out. I try to read alot up on my class (playing as destro lock) and love number crunshing, and trying do preform the very best, that i possibly can. I'm in a relaxed guild myself, but i find competing with my self and other DPS'ers to be big part of the fun of the game for me personally. I recently saw sparkuggz Video, Destruction Workshop Episode #1, while i was trying to check if i could find anything new under the sun. Most of what he said i would agree with, but what really got me Questioning myself is what he says around min 11. Where he talks about the execute phase part of fights.

    At the moment, when i reach this part of the fight is just swap CB for SB. Treating it the same way i would chaos bolt, meaing only casting it unbuffed if i was capping on embers, keeping track of buffs, and spending it with the biggest possible buffs i can. (also delaying DS 10-15 secs if my trinkets are about to get off CD, and trying to time 4 set if possible aswell) and ofc, only recasting Immolate if i can get atleast 2 ticks of prio to the targets death.

    What he suggests is to Use CB if Procs are up, and else use SB to keep you from capping embers. Hes reasoning is that SB is only really worth it if it crits or to get it off right before procs are about to fate and you can't get off a CB. One of his reasoning also behind it, is that CB scales better with meta and haste and does more dmg than SB unless SB crits..
    What do people Suggest for the Execute phase ?
    And does CB higher dmg, really make up for the fact that SB is a instant cast, meaning more possible incinerates and conflags ?

  10. #3590
    Quote Originally Posted by Neevs View Post
    Okay, first of all, great guide, have been very helpfull in the start of MoP and through out. I try to read alot up on my class (playing as destro lock) and love number crunshing, and trying do preform the very best, that i possibly can. I'm in a relaxed guild myself, but i find competing with my self and other DPS'ers to be big part of the fun of the game for me personally. I recently saw sparkuggz Video, Destruction Workshop Episode #1, while i was trying to check if i could find anything new under the sun. Most of what he said i would agree with, but what really got me Questioning myself is what he says around min 11. Where he talks about the execute phase part of fights.

    At the moment, when i reach this part of the fight is just swap CB for SB. Treating it the same way i would chaos bolt, meaing only casting it unbuffed if i was capping on embers, keeping track of buffs, and spending it with the biggest possible buffs i can. (also delaying DS 10-15 secs if my trinkets are about to get off CD, and trying to time 4 set if possible aswell) and ofc, only recasting Immolate if i can get atleast 2 ticks of prio to the targets death.

    What he suggests is to Use CB if Procs are up, and else use SB to keep you from capping embers. Hes reasoning is that SB is only really worth it if it crits or to get it off right before procs are about to fate and you can't get off a CB. One of his reasoning also behind it, is that CB scales better with meta and haste and does more dmg than SB unless SB crits..
    What do people Suggest for the Execute phase ?
    And does CB higher dmg, really make up for the fact that SB is a instant cast, meaning more possible incinerates and conflags ?
    Glad it was helpful!

    As to your question, yes, there is a point where Haste will make CB better than SB. The biggest benefit of SB is that it's fast. It doesn't necessarily do more damage than Chaos Bolt, but it sure as hell is much faster at doing that damage. However, if you get enough Haste then all of the sudden that advantage is gone. I don't remember off the top of my head exactly what Haste % is a good rule of thumb, but he is correct in that it exists. Note that which is better is dependent both on the procs and on your Haste as well as Crit chance. It's a pretty complicated situation and I'm considering looking into it more in depth so I can figure it out 100%, but at the same time all of this is completely subject to change come WoD so I may just not do it until we know more about WoD. That said, if I had to give you a CB cast time to make it worth it, it'd probably be around 1.4 seconds.

  11. #3591
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missbrooklyn25 View Post
    We killed him!! Tonight was not a raid night but we were pretty close on thurs night and if we had the people they wanted to set something up. I felt better on our attempts with the higher haste, and non glyphed havoc. I messed up on our kill attempt but on the other ones it was actually going alot better than what i was normally. I don't have the logs yet but i'll post em when i do. Oh and heroic boa! Coined gold though, but i'm still happy as shit that we got him. 190 something attempts. Thanks everybody for the help!!
    Congratulations! Glad you made it.

    Killed him for the first time since our MT went inactive yesterday, too. 2 new people of which one was a healer playing owlkin while beeing the kiter in P5. He did it flawless 1st try. Was pretty amazed...
    Although his DPS sucked ^^.
    BTW: We did it with 1 Tank and 1 Healer this time. Hadn't thought it would be possible.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
    from DE #1 guild "Ad Luna" in Cataclysm 10men progress. Now playing a Warlock in semi-hardcore guild "Lords of Heaven".
    Our Garrosh 10men Heroic Firstkill(skipped intermission 2 + played with 1 healer)

  12. #3592
    Quote Originally Posted by Erathus View Post
    Guys which is better for Challenge Modes, GoSac or GoSup ?
    Might be too late already but I'll answer it anyway: it depends a lot on the instance, but in general if you are just going for gold I'd just stick to sac, safer and easier especially on the dungeons you invis on. If you are going for times I could give you a more in depth answer if you want.

  13. #3593
    Dreadlord dawawe's Avatar
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    Anyone got any tip for heroic Siegecrafter? Mines are killing my grp and i seem to do more damage as aff spamming seed than destro with FnB. Even tried with mannoroths fury a couple attempts and still was being chewed out for low damage on mines. As destro 8m mine damage was my best. affliction attempts were ranging from 9-13m with more damage on the boss.


    Destro attempt http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=5997&e=6208
    Why read words when we can kill stuff the words tell us about?
    You have dreamed of death, you thought to escape it. Now, my little puppet, death is all you will ever know.
    NO ITEMS EEEVVVEEERRR!!!

  14. #3594
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    Your chaos bolt usage is extremely low, I think because of this your overall damage is taking an impact as you are most likely aoeing when you shouldn't be or far too much. It's also effecting your Immolate uptime to a certain degree. You had 17% chaos bolt usage, aim for 35%+ with proper usage (getting CBs off in time for procs, prevent capping, etc). Immolate should be as close to as 100% as possible, if it falls off then there's a problem.

    Definitely roll KJC because of it being progression still for you, and lower your AoE amount, maintain correct chaos bolt usage and maintain Immolate (Affdots!). Only AoE if you're going to hit 4 or more mobs, and don't F&B Immolate unless they last multiple seconds. Shadowburn snipe as you can as well. Rain of fire for Embers.
    Last edited by Kink; 2014-04-17 at 08:07 PM.

  15. #3595
    A lot debends on what kind of tactic you are using in HC Siegecrafter. I assume that you have the boss on the side where the mines will spawn. Are the tanks taking boss where the mines spawn so that you can cleave the mines along while dpsing boss? Do you use stuns and engi emp stuns? It helps tons if tanks will take the boss near where the mines spawns.

    I haven't used yet MF on Blackfuse HC, been going with KJ and doing ok. Granted, we have like 4 elemental shamans in our raid so the Chain lightning is doing huge amount of the work. But try to have rof up when mines are spawning and use fnb inci. And use the glyph of conflagrate if you lack slows on mines. Also, sac succubus for the knockback and use Shadowfury to stun if they are getting too close to you. But those are for if your raid setup lacks the cc. And tell every engineer to use emp on their belts, it's pretty good.

  16. #3596
    Dreadlord dawawe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyburger View Post
    A lot debends on what kind of tactic you are using in HC Siegecrafter. I assume that you have the boss on the side where the mines will spawn. Are the tanks taking boss where the mines spawn so that you can cleave the mines along while dpsing boss? Do you use stuns and engi emp stuns? It helps tons if tanks will take the boss near where the mines spawns.

    I haven't used yet MF on Blackfuse HC, been going with KJ and doing ok. Granted, we have like 4 elemental shamans in our raid so the Chain lightning is doing huge amount of the work. But try to have rof up when mines are spawning and use fnb inci. And use the glyph of conflagrate if you lack slows on mines. Also, sac succubus for the knockback and use Shadowfury to stun if they are getting too close to you. But those are for if your raid setup lacks the cc. And tell every engineer to use emp on their belts, it's pretty good.
    This is our strat. http://www.twitch.tv/theetova/b/520484267 Siegecrafter starts about 2hours in and ends about 4 hours in
    Last edited by dawawe; 2014-04-17 at 09:32 PM.
    Why read words when we can kill stuff the words tell us about?
    You have dreamed of death, you thought to escape it. Now, my little puppet, death is all you will ever know.
    NO ITEMS EEEVVVEEERRR!!!

  17. #3597
    Quote Originally Posted by dawawe View Post
    This is our strat. http://www.twitch.tv/theetova/b/520484267 Siegecrafter starts about 2hours in and ends about 4 hours in
    I just went quickly through that clip and to me, it seems that people where dying on other crap than mines. Mines were actually very well controlled, and you can always kite your own mine if it's getting close. But to increase your mine damage: Lay down RoF when big mines spawn and cleave fnb inci from boss (tanks are having him close enough to do that) and try to havoc boss shadowburn snipe the mines, as said earlier. For the single mines, you can always try to havoc cb them but the more effective way seems to be for you is to inci them to low and shadowburn them.

  18. #3598

  19. #3599

  20. #3600
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I hope it proved useful.
    Certainly upped my game. Much appreciated.
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