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  1. #121
    I don't really think that Resto Shaman is Broken.

    It is not the best healer at the moment, but you can heal quite well in 25 man raids.
    If it comes down to 10m raiding, your healing spells get quite weak, and you really rely on your cooldowns to top the hps meters. Ascendance, HTT and SL are awesome in 10m mode, however, if you can not use them to their full extent it will be a "wasted" cd in terms of overall hps.

    Nevertheless unless nobody dies because of not enough healing, you shouldn't really bother about your healing. The output may seem low, but in a lot of situations, a resto shaman can save your raid (High group or tank damage, which needs to be healed up really fast).

  2. #122
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    7613 haste breakpoint has quite a few major key points nobody has said here yet. I will be going for it as soon as I get my t15 bonuses.

    1. Extra ticks for Riptide, HR, HTT and HST (comparing to minimal haste gearing)
    2. 7613+AS+raidhaste = 30% haste -> your global cooldown is almost 1 second (3% short) (that saves lives while dispelling and lowers your reaction time for movement and spellcasts dramatically)
    3. Rotational healing: Riptide->(g)HW->(g)HW->(g)HW = "exactly" 6 seconds. You can chain cast all your globals and you won't miss any Riptide cooldowns.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  3. #123
    Puupi you are my new best friend. Finally someone that agrees with me on haste

  4. #124
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gendori View Post
    Puupi you are my new best friend. Finally someone that agrees with me on haste


    You have to remember though, reforging for 7613 haste requires quite a bit of gear. I tested it during t14 at around 507 ilvl and that wasn't enough. You sacrifice too much spirit and crit for that haste breakpoint, regen isn't enough and your HPS isn't that great either. I guess my 517 ilvl COULD be enough for it, guessing I could get around 13,5k spirit with that haste breakpoint, but my crit/mastery would be below 2k. I'm probably going to wait til I get those t15 pieces and have ilvl 520+ (that would mean 14-15k spirit with 2-3k crit/mastery with that haste breakpoint).
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Gendori View Post
    SNIP
    There are some really bad advices in this post...

    6k spirit is NOTHING. Its one thing not going to an early 14k spirit (which is also bad) but actually advising to go for 6k spirit is telling players to be worthless during 60% of the fight.

    TC doesnt give you almost any mana in its current form. LB is free damage, yes, but wont give you mana.

    Haste is bad for 10 mans, REALLY bad, outside of breakpoints, since healing is not about sniping (that's what bad healers do) if you heal a target with your haste that receives a wasted heal from your paladin healer after you, then you gained nothing, you just make that paladin get a wasted spell. This isnt an epeen contest where you snipe targets to get your HPS up. This is about RAID CONTRIBUTION, which also makes your statement about Mana Tide a bad one too.
    Last edited by Crashdummy; 2013-03-12 at 04:08 PM.

  6. #126
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    I will agree that haste is bad for 10 man, to a degree. I'd say that their breakpoint for the 2nd riptide tick of 5676 haste is significant, one that will be easily gained by just gaining ToT gear. At 25-man, I have been trying with 7613 haste, but I honestly will see more benefit at 8882 haste, another HST tick. Note that input lag plays a role here, so for safer measure, 9k haste.

    Especially with the 2 piece bonus we gain (+25% extra heal from HST), this will be a significant increase to HST, already quite a strong totem in a 25-man enviroment. with 9000 haste, we would be a bit above 33.29% with full raid buffs (a full percentage is not avaiable due to lack of time), making our 2.5 sec casts cast on 1.79 seconds.

    I actually see great promise in such amount of haste for 25-man.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  7. #127
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    I will agree that haste is bad for 10 man, to a degree. I'd say that their breakpoint for the 2nd riptide tick of 5676 haste is significant, one that will be easily gained by just gaining ToT gear. At 25-man, I have been trying with 7613 haste, but I honestly will see more benefit at 8882 haste, another HST tick. Note that input lag plays a role here, so for safer measure, 9k haste.

    Especially with the 2 piece bonus we gain (+25% extra heal from HST), this will be a significant increase to HST, already quite a strong totem in a 25-man enviroment. with 9000 haste, we would be a bit above 33.29% with full raid buffs (a full percentage is not avaiable due to lack of time), making our 2.5 sec casts cast on 1.79 seconds.

    I actually see great promise in such amount of haste for 25-man.
    Actually your point is valid, the 8882 haste is the obvious choice with t15 2pc (and it is the global cooldown threshold, too). But that is a very high amount of haste, you sacrifice a lot for it. Let's see how it works out
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  8. #128
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    It will probably be something like this. Note that this is just a global idea, so you can swap a few parts out here and there and I did not add professions into it. http://www.chardev.org/profile/19904-TestShammie.html

    If it is too much spirit (though I never had so much spirit and so much haste and Horridon's trinket has an insane proc rate), then you can reforge/gem a bit different as long as you stay above 9k haste.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    I will agree that haste is bad for 10 man, to a degree. I'd say that their breakpoint for the 2nd riptide tick of 5676 haste is significant, one that will be easily gained by just gaining ToT gear. At 25-man, I have been trying with 7613 haste, but I honestly will see more benefit at 8882 haste, another HST tick. Note that input lag plays a role here, so for safer measure, 9k haste.

    Especially with the 2 piece bonus we gain (+25% extra heal from HST), this will be a significant increase to HST, already quite a strong totem in a 25-man enviroment. with 9000 haste, we would be a bit above 33.29% with full raid buffs (a full percentage is not avaiable due to lack of time), making our 2.5 sec casts cast on 1.79 seconds.

    I actually see great promise in such amount of haste for 25-man.
    woha... i would love to try the 5676 hste breakpoint but i raid 10m normal and we just got the 1st boss down on sunday.
    Since we havent even got HoF cleared our raid lead wants to do that first before we even try more in ToT.... :/

    im at 986 haste / 16% crit / 55,04 % Mastery (unbuffed) (ilvl 494) so... guess at this time i would sacrifice to much to get that much haste?!?

  10. #130
    Fluffy Kitten Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoshioo View Post
    woha... i would love to try the 5676 hste breakpoint but i raid 10m normal and we just got the 1st boss down on sunday.
    Since we havent even got HoF cleared our raid lead wants to do that first before we even try more in ToT.... :/

    im at 986 haste / 16% crit / 55,04 % Mastery (unbuffed) (ilvl 494) so... guess at this time i would sacrifice to much to get that much haste?!?
    You can't reforge to haste with that ilvl. Just go full spirit+crit. Those high haste levels are obtainable at around 520 ilvl.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by suffeli View Post
    You can't reforge to haste with that ilvl. Just go full spirit+crit. Those high haste levels are obtainable at around 520 ilvl.
    And is more aimed towards the spread out fights of ToT, T14 fights could just aswell follow the original stat priority. Although for my feeling, your mastery is a bit high. As I always understood for 10-mans, 50% mastery should be best.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    And is more aimed towards the spread out fights of ToT, T14 fights could just aswell follow the original stat priority. Although for my feeling, your mastery is a bit high. As I always understood for 10-mans, 50% mastery should be best.
    Yeh, thought about that to.... Tried to stick with 15% crit - rest mastery...

    So i should forge to 50% mastery and rest crit???? (Im at 9.5 k Spirit atm)

    Like i said i only raid 10 man normal mode and i dont think we will get past 2nd Boss too soon since some of our dds are like totaly lame...

    Too bad i cant try those haste breakpoints... :/

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Schadow View Post
    And is more aimed towards the spread out fights of ToT, T14 fights could just aswell follow the original stat priority. Although for my feeling, your mastery is a bit high. As I always understood for 10-mans, 50% mastery should be best.
    Can anyone explain where the "50% mastery" figure came from? It seems to be said a lot across many different forums, but I have yet to see a reasoning behind it.

  14. #134
    The Patient edlike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emandrawkcab View Post
    Can anyone explain where the "50% mastery" figure came from? It seems to be said a lot across many different forums, but I have yet to see a reasoning behind it.
    Because its a nice round arbitrary # that people feel comfortable aiming for.

    Personally that's just what i think it is: arbitrary.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emandrawkcab View Post
    Can anyone explain where the "50% mastery" figure came from? It seems to be said a lot across many different forums, but I have yet to see a reasoning behind it.
    Because according to the math at a reasonable % of health that is the point where the value of Crit begins to overtake the value of Mastery on a point for point basis. If you play in a raid with heavy absorbs/high health levels less Mastery is necessary. if you play in a raid where more direct healing is needed or people are consistently at lower life levels then more Mastery would be good.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNK View Post
    Because according to the math at a reasonable % of health that is the point where the value of Crit begins to overtake the value of Mastery on a point for point basis. If you play in a raid with heavy absorbs/high health levels less Mastery is necessary. if you play in a raid where more direct healing is needed or people are consistently at lower life levels then more Mastery would be good.
    Can you link to the math? I would love to read it.

  17. #137
    There is no math; it is just arbitrary. Crit is more throughput than Mastery on targets above about 65% for AoE healing and 35% for single target healing (both go up to 65% with T15 4pc). You have to decide if the majority of your healing or your impactful healing falls over or under that threshold. At that point, you should just keep stacking that stat. Both Crit and Mastery scale linearly. 1% mastery is worth the same at 30% mastery as it is at 80% mastery.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    There is no math; it is just arbitrary. Crit is more throughput than Mastery on targets above about 65% for AoE healing and 35% for single target healing (both go up to 65% with T15 4pc). You have to decide if the majority of your healing or your impactful healing falls over or under that threshold. At that point, you should just keep stacking that stat. Both Crit and Mastery scale linearly. 1% mastery is worth the same at 30% mastery as it is at 80% mastery.
    Thanks. That was the answer I was hoping for, but also the most annoying answer, as I know of no way to accurately measure average health level. Anyone have a solution there?

  19. #139
    I Can also confirm resto shamans are Soo bad in 10m On raidbots other 4 healers are on a average about 20 - 30k hps then shamans. We Definitely need a buff.

  20. #140
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    I once have read about the mastery and crit formula's, but I honestly can not recall it, nor can I refind it. But it has taken into the community that your aim should be for 45-50% mastery, as has been said before, it's a nice round number. I think it was about 48.84% mastery, but I am honestly not sure.
    Much love to Indicate for creating. Eis' work

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