Hunter Simcraft Results 5.2 (initial thoughts)

[Libertarian]

I'm pretty sure the reason our pet despawn on Magaera is because of lynx rush. Once I switched to a murder of crows, my pet stopped despawning.

It's not just lynx rush

[Saoron]

I see some scaling issues again (ofcourse just going by simcraft) when you compare 5.2 in t14H gear to t15H gear.. Hunters are in a really good shape atm, but will it last ? Will have to wait and see I guess.. It won't atleast according to simcraft.. hopefully we get some more accurate numbers soon..

[Deleted]

I see some scaling issues again (ofcourse just going by simcraft) when you compare 5.2 in t14H gear to t15H gear.. Hunters are in a really good shape atm, but will it last ? Will have to wait and see I guess.. It won't atleast according to simcraft.. hopefully we get some more accurate numbers soon..

Remember the September-November T14 sims that put the 3 hunter specs in the bottom 4 along with balance? Because I do, and real-world turned out to be very different. It's far too early to trust sims, just hang in there.

[Deleted]

And in early December we got some serious buffs (doubling the damage of SrS and extra 5% RAP from AotH). However, seems like Blizzard in MoP is constantly balancing all speccs and classes, so I wouldn't worry about it.
However, at least IMHO, problem is class mehanics overall. Theme on the most of the fights in MoP is multi dotting / cleaving and one specc dealing over 50% more DMG with dots it's just bad class design considering real raid fights. I would even go as far as telling that BM and MM don't have any real cleave mehanics. Spamming Multi-shot on cleave (as BM / MM) is like mage spamming Arcane Explosions (while trying to cleave).

[Deleted]

Even before those buffs BM was nowhere near as bas as SimC said it was, and the sting buff was actually just a reverted over-nerf from beta...

[Conando]

I'll stay away from delving too far into the melodramatic "Blizz hates ______" thing that fills 90% of class discussions, but I do think the sims show hunters undeniably falling behind.

Blizz had genuinely done a great job trying to give a bunch of "neglected" classes buffs and added utility, which is great, but it just leaves hunters in an odd spot. We don't really bring any raid cooldowns, we have no healing abilities like hybrids, no short CD interrupt like melee classes, we have little in terms of active damage mitigation, and we can't multidot or cleave like other classes. If we don't at least bring competitive single target damage, I don't see what value we have (especially as BM or MM). No movement penalty is nice, but it isn't gamechanging on most fights.

[Deleted]

I'll stay away from delving too far into the melodramatic "Blizz hates ______" thing that fills 90% of class discussions, but I do think the sims show hunters undeniably falling behind.

Stop right there! When SimCraft lists hunters at the bottom of the charts, it's only because it SIMULATES our dps beeing that bad. Which, just for the record, it allready did in it's t14 models, which proved to be highly unreliable. If you want to complain about dps, use worldoflogs or raidbots.
And on the topic off hunters not bringing anything to a raid here is my opinion: Hunters are the very cornerstone of Blizzard's Bring-the-player-not-the-class philosophy!!! A Hunter can bring ANY buff or debuff you want. Maybe hunter don't excell in ANY of the roles you listed but they come in a good 2nd place in ALL of them.
For my raidsetup I will preferr a hunter over any other class..

[Gunba]

There's no point using SimCraft for comparing different classes - the complexity and quality of action lists differs by author.

For instance, the Feral action list is almost 100 lines long, and most of it looks like this:

actions.defaults+=/ferocious_bite,if=combo_points>=1&dot.rip.ticking&dot.rip.remains<=2&target.health.pct<=25
actions.defaults+=/thrash_cat,if=buff.omen_of_clarity.react&dot.thrash_cat.remains<3&buff.dream_of_cenarius_d amage.down
actions.defaults+=/savage_roar,if=buff.savage_roar.remains<=1|(buff.savage_roar.remains<=3&combo_points>0)&ta rget.health.pct<25
actions.defaults+=/natures_swiftness,if=talent.natures_swiftness.enabled&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buf f.dream_of_cenarius_damage.down&buff.predatory_swiftness.down&combo_points>=5&target.healt h.pct<=25
actions.defaults+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=(talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&combo_points>=5&target.health.pct <=25&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up)|(!talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled&buff.berserk.up& target.health.pct<=25)|target.time_to_die<=40
actions.defaults+=/rip,if=combo_points>=5&buff.virmens_bite_potion.up&buff.dream_of_cenarius_damage.up&dot.ri p.multiplier<tick_multiplier&target.health.pct<=25&target.time_to_die>30

The hunter one on the other hand is about 30 lines long, most of it looking like this:

actions+=/explosive_shot,if=buff.lock_and_load.react
actions+=/glaive_toss,if=enabled
actions+=/powershot,if=enabled
actions+=/barrage,if=enabled
actions+=/multi_shot,if=target.adds>2
actions+=/cobra_shot,if=target.adds>2

Pretty obvious why there is a disparity.

[Deleted]

I'll stay away from delving too far into the melodramatic "Blizz hates ______" thing that fills 90% of class discussions, but I do think the sims show hunters undeniably falling behind.

Blizz had genuinely done a great job trying to give a bunch of "neglected" classes buffs and added utility, which is great, but it just leaves hunters in an odd spot. We don't really bring any raid cooldowns, we have no healing abilities like hybrids, no short CD interrupt like melee classes, we have little in terms of active damage mitigation, and we can't multidot or cleave like other classes. If we don't at least bring competitive single target damage, I don't see what value we have (especially as BM or MM). No movement penalty is nice, but it isn't gamechanging on most fights.

I'm pretty confident Blizzard (now) sees us as the class which excels on high movements fights, it's nothing to scoff at.

[Conando]

It's a fairly weak niche, though. Most caster classes, especially if played well, can move without a significant DPS loss. Some can do it with literally no DPS loss.

At this point it's fine because we sim in the middle of the pack and movement penalties can push us to the top. But once we sim at the bottom, MM and BM will need high movement and only 1 target to even stay competitive.

So we'll have two specs that will be behind in everything but single target, high movement fights and one spec that will perform well with AoE. That's kind of weak for a pure DPS class that brings little raid utility.

[Fayoh]

At least we are not Rets.

Thoughts?

I'm late to see this, I don't even care. I hate you Conjor.



Infracted ~ please don't necro old threads with spam.

[Spodumene]

And while there's obviously scaling to consider, I highly doubt we're THAT low - my guild has some of the most hardcore DPS-whores you can imagine - this is our Jin'rokh kill: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...d/?s=391&e=576 (fifth fastest kill worldwide so far according to WOL).

5th fastest world kill because the REALLY good guilds won't kill Jin'rokh on normal anymore ;-p

[Deleted]

5th fastest world kill because the REALLY good guilds won't kill Jin'rokh on normal anymore ;-p

that was the first week...

[Conjor]

I'm late to see this, I don't even care. I hate you Conjor.

Way to necro my thread from months ago Fayoh.

But as my guild has been progressing, Simcraft is way off on accurately showing what happens on encounters. Except for mages and locks being on top. That's bang on.