"Bring Windwalkers up to par in both PvE and PvP."

[Manabomb]

I didn't say I wanted to be Highest deepz, I said the way they went about our change was wrong, and they fucked our sustained while buffing our burst, meaning inbetween TeB we fall to a low DPS and only make it up in TeB cycles.

There was no need for them to change that, I moved away from my Ret Paladin for the exact same reason, as I hate classes that hold shit-house sustained and only catch up in damage during our Burst phases. I couldn't really care if I was middle of the Pack it comes down to it being annoying that they have changed how combat rolls for monks now, and that by losing any uptime during a burst by needing to move out from a pack or movement due to Boss mechanics that It severely impacts your overall damage. It doesn't matter if you aren't top DPS, but when you end up near the bottom of the pack due to things of that nature, it makes it harder to hold a raid position when a RL can bring another class with better sustained DPS to cover your role.

You are grossly exaggerating the "shit" dps we do outside of TeB. From all the different monks I've talked to, if anything our damage is still a bit overtuned outside of TeB. As far as knowing when to burst and when to not burst, that's raider 101, managing your cooldowns around boss mechanics. You claiming to lose dps to having to move from something or what have you is the same argument as someone not paying attention to nightmares on Tsulong and dropping it right in the sunbeam because they didn't clear stacks earlier. It's dumb and a raider should honestly know better.

Not only that, it's a 15 second window of burst. There are many, many encounters even on heroic where one can get 15 seconds of consecutive uptime atleast once every 30-45 seconds.

And lastly, the burst change to TeB was to give us the burst we needed to be at the very least playable in pvp (A big shocker, pvp and pve changes effect each other in this game). The number changes to stance and rsk? Changes to prevent monks from being fotm rerolled as they topped charts only to be brutally crushed in hotfixes or 5.3. Personally I'd rather be viable for an entire content patch rather than be crushed halfway through, and the preemptive nerfs by the dev team secured that.

[Deleted]

All these people who has no idea what so ever what they're talking about lmfao...

WW is not fine, It's broken now its pretty much the lowest DPS spec in the game with current gear.

[Viradiance]

Oh look, another LFR hero pretending to know what he is talking about.

Posted earlier today per your history.

Lol what? I'm at 483 ilvl at the moment, and I ONLY just break 300k RSK's crits with all trinket procs/TeB up.

Not really what I would call "lower end"

Shit, this must be embarassing. Your monk is more of an LFR hero than mine!

[Teriz]

I gotta say, WW dps is pretty solid in 5.2. Combo Breaker going passive, SEF, and the new mastery really does a good job of making the spec competitive. What's going to get you to the top of the deck is your personal skill. A good WW is going to blow holes through people's chests.

[Felade]

I gotta say, WW dps is pretty solid in 5.2. Combo Breaker going passive, SEF, and the new mastery really does a good job of making the spec competitive. What's going to get you to the top of the deck is your personal skill. A good WW is going to blow holes through people's chests.

Sure would love some more info on this because my experience has been watching DKs, Shaman, Warlocks, even Ret do double my DPS on anything that's not single target. Yes, I'm getting nice uptime with SEF and TEB.

I'm wondering just how much my crappy trinkets have to do with things (2/2 Relic and the 489 trash drop from MSV which I can't even remember the name of off the top of my head, its a haste on-use). Lining up with the haste proc seems pretty worthless.

[Manabomb]

All these people who has no idea what so ever what they're talking about lmfao...

WW is not fine, It's broken now its pretty much the lowest DPS spec in the game with current gear.

And more sheeple trying to say something but offer no proof or mechanical inclination other than "itz so borken, and is lowezt deeps in current gearz" (reworded because this is how people like you sound to me.)

Sure would love some more info on this because my experience has been watching DKs, Shaman, Warlocks, even Ret do double my DPS on anything that's not single target. Yes, I'm getting nice uptime with SEF and TEB.

I'm wondering just how much my crappy trinkets have to do with things (2/2 Relic and the 489 trash drop from MSV which I can't even remember the name of off the top of my head, its a haste on-use). Lining up with the haste proc seems pretty worthless.

Define double dps. Also, define if said encounter is a cleave encounter, dot cleave encounter, balls to the wall dps race, ect. I highly doubt it has anything to do with the class, but with either your stat weights, management of cooldowns or not utilizing gimmicks (Like touch of karma and soaking damage for more damage.)

[Deleted]

And more sheeple trying to say something but offer no proof or mechanical inclination other than "itz so borken, and is lowezt deeps in current gearz" (reworded because this is how people like you sound to me.)



Define double dps. Also, define if said encounter is a cleave encounter, dot cleave encounter, balls to the wall dps race, ect. I highly doubt it has anything to do with the class, but with either your stat weights, management of cooldowns or not utilizing gimmicks (Like touch of karma and soaking damage for more damage.)

I'm gonna start linking logs from a bit into the instance since the nerf wasnt live straight away.

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/

Nice top ranks yes? 110k dps would have been in the low end last tier.

[Manabomb]

I'm gonna start linking logs from a bit into the instance since the nerf wasnt live straight away.

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...ndwalker_Monk/

Nice top ranks yes? 110k dps would have been in the low end last tier.

*Looks at monks dps ratings, looks at every other melee. Looks at a destro warlock on Maegara with 160k dps and lols, looks at other specs pulling about 100-120k dps per fight*

Pretty sure we are middle of the pack sir. We are far from "borken". We are doing pretty much just as good as everyone else minus the obvious over-tuning over warlocks, rogues and mages which is honestly expected at this point. Also, I'd like to point you to simulation craft

http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

While yes, it is a simulation, I'd like to point out that this is the closest I've seen this many competitive specs on a patchwerk fight since ever. Classes are obviously going to have strengths and weaknesses fight by fight, so the numbers are variable and assume perfect player execution, but I digress. Monks are far from "broken".

[Deleted]

*Looks at monks dps ratings, looks at every other melee. Looks at a destro warlock on Maegara with 160k dps and lols, looks at other specs pulling about 100-120k dps per fight*

Pretty sure we are middle of the pack sir. We are far from "borken". We are doing pretty much just as good as everyone else minus the obvious over-tuning over warlocks, rogues and mages which is honestly expected at this point. Also, I'd like to point you to simulation craft

http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

While yes, it is a simulation, I'd like to point out that this is the closest I've seen this many competitive specs on a patchwerk fight since ever. Classes are obviously going to have strengths and weaknesses fight by fight, so the numbers are variable and assume perfect player execution, but I digress. Monks are far from "broken".

We're barrely doin 100k dps, most other classes pull 110k with ease, tthats not in the middle.

[Exorte]

I feel as if a lot of these complaints are centered in pvp or at end game min maxing heroic guilds. Honestly, in my normal guild going through ToES and the first part of ToT, I feel myself and the other monk we roll with doing competitive damage with an affli/destro warlock, fury warrior and feral druid. Not sure whether to mock or to quote blizzard for the thousandth time "we don't want wotlk dks".

Pretty sure ToT normal is a normal raid...
In PvE monk got nerf at least in current ilvl, which is the complete oppose of "bring windwalker up to par in PvE" .

[Deleted]

Pretty sure ToT normal is a normal raid...
In PvE monk got nerf at least in current ilvl, which is the complete oppose of "bring windwalker up to par in PvE" .

This. and if he's doin the same dmg as the lock / war those 2 are doing somethign seriously wrong....I'm gettign crushed by them and I was beating them on almost every fight last tier.

[Exorte]

*Looks at monks dps ratings, looks at every other melee. Looks at a destro warlock on Maegara with 160k dps and lols, looks at other specs pulling about 100-120k dps per fight*

Pretty sure we are middle of the pack sir. We are far from "borken". We are doing pretty much just as good as everyone else minus the obvious over-tuning over warlocks, rogues and mages which is honestly expected at this point. Also, I'd like to point you to simulation craft

http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

While yes, it is a simulation, I'd like to point out that this is the closest I've seen this many competitive specs on a patchwerk fight since ever. Classes are obviously going to have strengths and weaknesses fight by fight, so the numbers are variable and assume perfect player execution, but I digress. Monks are far from "broken".

Simcraft is still way overestmateing WW damage this patch even more so than last tier.
Just go look at ToT normal (since heroic is not opened) data.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/

[Beertholomew]

This. and if he's doin the same dmg as the lock / war those 2 are doing somethign seriously wrong....I'm gettign crushed by them and I was beating them on almost every fight last tier.

This exactly^^^ I was always top 5, now im sitting down towards the bottom. DKs & Warlocks at the top.

[Manabomb]

We're barrely doin 100k dps, most other classes pull 110k with ease, tthats not in the middle.

Define "with ease". One would assume if you were logging these numbers for progressions purposes, one would be trying their best it would not be "with ease". Also, we are doing about 100-110 per fight on many of the fights. This is about middle of the pack considering mm hunters on dark animus logging at 68k dps... Lol.

Pretty sure ToT normal is a normal raid...
In PvE monk got nerf at least in current ilvl, which is the complete oppose of "bring windwalker up to par in PvE" .

They "nerfed us" to tone down our damage so that we would not be wotlk style deathknight fotm rerolls. The last thing we need is a bunch of bad reputation of "being tha most op thing eva" and having a bunch of warlocks, rogues and mages bitch about rerolling to monk because that's the only way to "stay competitive". The nerfs were a preemptive strike on this for the reason above and because with the increased stat values from 522+ gear, we'd be getting much more mastery and haste which in-turn increases our damage at a very high ratio.

So to reiterate. We might be low (middle of the pack) on the charts now because of gear scaling (warriors anyone?), but I doubt we will be low for very long once raiders start to gain gear from ToT.

[Deleted]

This thread is hilarious to read while drunk.

[Manabomb]

Simcraft is still way overestmateing WW damage this patch even more so than last tier.
Just go look at ToT normal (since heroic is not opened) data.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/

Do I honestly need to spell you people the definition of middle of the pack, or are we too caught up in minor nerfs to realize we are fine?

[Exorte]

They "nerfed us" to tone down our damage so that we would not be wotlk style deathknight fotm rerolls. The last thing we need is a bunch of bad reputation of "being tha most op thing eva" and having a bunch of warlocks, rogues and mages bitch about rerolling to monk because that's the only way to "stay competitive". The nerfs were a preemptive strike on this for the reason above and because with the increased stat values from 522+ gear, we'd be getting much more mastery and haste which in-turn increases our damage at a very high ratio.

So to reiterate. We might be low (middle of the pack) on the charts now because of gear scaling (warriors anyone?), but I doubt we will be low for very long once raiders start to gain gear from ToT.

Actually I went in I calculate the pre-nerf damage every fight. We are still no where near the top pre-10% nerf. So is it not the "most OP eva", if you want that go reroll warlock.

[Deleted]

Do I honestly need to spell you people the definition of middle of the pack, or are we too caught up in minor nerfs to realize we are fine?

Difference between being a middle of the pack class and spec. All the classes under WW monks have other specs that they can choose if they want to be higher up in terms of damage. Monks don't have luxury.

[Exorte]

Do I honestly need to spell you people the definition of middle of the pack, or are we too caught up in minor nerfs to realize we are fine?

Please do.
I did calculate the ranking in term of the class (not spec. Reason explained in the end).
While different setting yield different result, Monk is about the 10th place (hint: there is only 11 class, lol "middle of the pack"). Actually it might be the last place in total ranking, since different class is the last place in different setting.
Example, all mage that care about damage reroll fire, so only the damage of fire is accurate, since all top geared mage are fire now.

[Deleted]

Define "with ease". One would assume if you were logging these numbers for progressions purposes, one would be trying their best it would not be "with ease". Also, we are doing about 100-110 per fight on many of the fights. This is about middle of the pack considering mm hunters on dark animus logging at 68k dps... Lol.



They "nerfed us" to tone down our damage so that we would not be wotlk style deathknight fotm rerolls. The last thing we need is a bunch of bad reputation of "being tha most op thing eva" and having a bunch of warlocks, rogues and mages bitch about rerolling to monk because that's the only way to "stay competitive". The nerfs were a preemptive strike on this for the reason above and because with the increased stat values from 522+ gear, we'd be getting much more mastery and haste which in-turn increases our damage at a very high ratio.

So to reiterate. We might be low (middle of the pack) on the charts now because of gear scaling (warriors anyone?), but I doubt we will be low for very long once raiders start to gain gear from ToT.

You are 100% clueless, so pointless even trying to talk to you cause you don't see it.

I think theres a reason all topguilds are having their ww monks reroll warlocks.

And I think you need to look up what "middle of the pack" means, cause i dont' think being 10-20k behind EVERYONE is being the middle somehow.