No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Yriel]

This should have been expected. LFR has replaced the need for Five-mans to fill in a gear gap between major patches. Next month we'll have 8 separate LFR queues. 5.4 hits and we may see up to 12. It's unsurprising that 5-mans are not being planned.

Still LFR is only once per week. And even though there are in theory 8 parts, people who have their stuff from T14 will only run the three new ones. That will take probably between 2 and 3 hours and then what do they do the rest of the week ? Thats why 5-mans have their place, they are something you can do every day.

[Deleted]

Storytelling?

can and is better done by the scenario system

[ranolphus the great]

this sucks

[HardCoder]

PRE MOLTEN FRONT. Are you dense? Are you honestly ignoring what I'm telling you? YOu know why they did molten front? WHAT WAS THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOLTEN FRONT DAILIES AND ALL THE OTHER DAILIES UP TO THE GAME IN THAT POINT? It's called fucking gear.

TB dailies were the only reasonable, cheap way to obtain a 346 weapon. So, a lot of casual players ran TB dailies.

Raiders did them for the crackles trinket.

Molten Front gear on the other hand was of basically no use to casual players.

[Prokne]

You talk a good game about getting gear for your time, but you do realize other than the rare epic drop until WOTLK people never got epics in 5 mans right? Then Cata hit and the epics stopped being dropped in 5 mans until the last bit of Crapaclysm, so by your standards saying you wanted it like BC and Vanilla you are actually getting it, you are getting blues.

BC heroics also dropped an epic on the last boss every time just like Wrath. So only Vanilla which didnt have heroics and Cata didnt drop guaranteed epics.

[Tax]

Id rather run two new terrible 5 mans to gear up alts for raids, than run the even more terrible LFR and dailies.

[Selvari7]

I find 5 mans are really fun. You can get a couple buddies and enjoy the content as opposed to LFR.

[Leonard McCoy]

Going back to a linear progression model is about the dumbest thing they could do for a couple of reasons.

1. It really is catering to a minority of so called hardcores and elites who had issues with me getting gear and "invalidating" their progress. These people are children frankly and should not be catered to in the slightest. Should note that this isn't he majority of the raiding community in any sense. It's really just a small subset of them who are children and will take their ball home if the other kid has the same or close to the same toy they do.
2. It's not gonna sate those children. Their hung up on an idea of what the game used to be and while trying to bring back linear progression is an attempt to emulate this it's a forced attempt that will simple fail to capture them becasue it fails to capture the essence of what had them hooked in TBC. In other words the past is done let it be.

I find it extremely funny that LFR is now for the gear where as before it was only catch up. People can't seem to get their stories straight. Probably for the devs it makes sense to shove people into LFR and not give us any more dungeons. It's a playstyle they can better gate and control, doesn't allow for anybody to game the system and their already building the raids anyway might as well fill em up with as many people as possible. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. Understand I want the game to succeed but not like this.

[Kaleredar]

Still LFR is only once per week. And even though there are in theory 8 parts, people who have their stuff from T14 will only run the three new ones. That will take probably between 2 and 3 hours and then what do they do the rest of the week ? Thats why 5-mans have their place, they are something you can do every day.

What would be the point in adding easy dungeons that drop gear of worse quality than LFR? So you can be bored somewhere new a couple of times each week while capping valor?

[reef]

i liked the addition of 5 mans later in the expansion that fit into the theme of the last raid such as the hour of twilight heroics. just my thoughts, i know others will disagree :/

[Steampunk]

I feared as much when they said that additional 5-mans don't fit the current raiding model.

Yup! WoW's getting back into it's tunnel vision habits again.

Too many of my friends can't raid with their guilds anymore, over becoming post-college employed, as WoW's grown over the years.

The lack of 5-mans really screws them into LFR'ing, which not everyone's a fan of.

Only way I could see this not ending with unsub's from boredom is if the 5.4 new feature is a mentoring program; or somehow tuning even more old dungeons to go Heroic.

[Yriel]

What would be the point in adding easy dungeons that drop gear of worse quality than LFR? So you can be bored somewhere new a couple of times each week while capping valor?

Thats not how dungeons have been added. Magister's Terrace, the icecrown 5-mans, the DS 5-mans... all dungeons that were added later were all more difficult then the starting dungeons and dropped better loot.
And they are better farmable. I never got a sha-touched weapon on any of my characters, if they were available in 5-mans i could chain-run them to finally have something to put this stupid gem into. So i would have reasons to go in there several times each week.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 08:25 AM ----------

Yup! WoW's getting back into it's tunnel vision habits again.

That's because in their heart, the WoW Devs are hardcore players, too. Everything they did to please the casuals they did unwillingly and often took it back after some time. See GCs "Wow, dungeons are hard" Blog.
They know they need the money from the casuals so they are forced to throw them a bone now and then but in the end they always try to please the hardcores first.

[HardCoder]

They are probably looking at the participating in 5-mans and thinking "well if no one is doing these then let's not make any more of them."

But the reason no one is running 5-mans is that there is no meaningful gear there. You get nothing useful out of them except valor, and maybe if you queued as tank or heals, a goodie bag. As a tank, with goodie bags and instant queues, it might be worthwhile doing 5-mans. As a healer, with the short queues, it might be a nice change of pace. But as a DPS, why would you ever bother once you got to 460 ilevel?

Some of it is downright stupid. The heroic dungeon quests reward 440 ilevel gear. I've never seen dungeon quests reward gear inferior to the boss drops in the instance.

[Leonard McCoy]

They are probably looking at the participating in 5-mans and thinking "well if no one is doing these then let's not make any more of them."

But the reason no one is running 5-mans is that there is no meaningful gear there. You get nothing useful out of them except valor, and maybe if you queued as tank or heals, a goodie bag. As a tank, with goodie bags and instant queues, it might be worthwhile doing 5-mans. As a healer, with the short queues, it might be a nice change of pace. But as a DPS, why would you ever bother once you got to 460 ilevel?

Some of it is downright stupid. The heroic dungeon quests reward 440 ilevel gear. I've never seen dungeon quests reward gear inferior to the boss drops in the instance.

All by design. All by design. Taking the reward out of the dungeons is an attempt to try and get players to change the content they consume. No more dungeons. More dailies.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 07:45 AM ----------

Thats not how dungeons have been added. Magister's Terrace, the icecrown 5-mans, the DS 5-mans... all dungeons that were added later were all more difficult then the starting dungeons and dropped better loot.
And they are better farmable. I never got a sha-touched weapon on any of my characters, if they were available in 5-mans i could chain-run them to finally have something to put this stupid gem into. So i would have reasons to go in there several times each week.

---------- Post added 2013-03-11 at 08:25 AM ----------



That's because in their heart, the WoW Devs are hardcore players, too. Everything they did to please the casuals they did unwillingly and often took it back after some time. See GCs "Wow, dungeons are hard" Blog.
They know they need the money from the casuals so they are forced to throw them a bone now and then but in the end they always try to please the hardcores first.

Alot of this isn't even from all "hardcores". It's from a tiny minority of those players who are in reality children. Like children if they see another person with the same or similar toy to what they have then they get mad and cry and take their ball home. I am so disappointed they are being catered to.

[melodramocracy]

5 mans this time around were easy to the point of being irrelevant anyhow, so I'm not surprised to see this happening. And it streamlines things. Less content = less gear creation required.

Raid.. raid till you're blue in the face! Oh, and then raid a bit more.

[Jtbrig7390]

All by design. All by design. Taking the reward out of the dungeons is an attempt to try and get players to change the content they consume. No more dungeons. More dailies.

Because more daily's is less work and that is what wow has turned into with blizzard.

"Max profit with little work"

Blizzard has accpted the fact there is a sub bleed and the bleed is going to keep going for awhile until it finally hits a base number. But until it hits that base number they will put as little work in as they can for max profit.

Blizzard has learned to MAX the profit people need to be subbed longer.

With new 5mans people could gear do there raid and be done then unsub until the next big patch.

Now blizzard hopes with the Double Doze of RNG in LFR and useing it as the gear up grind that 5 mans use to be and the Daily Grind/Gating that people will stay subbed longer.

Something blizzard may not have though of or they did and didn't care is if the grind is long and boring people will just say fuck it and quit.

Call me a wrath baby or whatever you may wish but I want reward for my time invested and in the current system its my Time VS RNG and there is a good chance my reward dose not = time invested.

So I'm taking my ball"aka 15$" and going home.

[Keashaa]

1. It really is catering to a minority of so called hardcores and elites who had issues with me getting gear and "invalidating" their progress. These people are children frankly and should not be catered to in the slightest. Should note that this isn't he majority of the raiding community in any sense. It's really just a small subset of them who are children and will take their ball home if the other kid has the same or close to the same toy they do.

Prejudices, nothing more. But interesting you need to insult others instead of bringing up real arguments...

2. It's not gonna sate those children. Their hung up on an idea of what the game used to be and while trying to bring back linear progression is an attempt to emulate this it's a forced attempt that will simple fail to capture them becasue it fails to capture the essence of what had them hooked in TBC. In other words the past is done let it be.

Pardon? You're making more instults and are writting confusing stuff.

I find it extremely funny that LFR is now for the gear where as before it was only catch up. People can't seem to get their stories straight. Probably for the devs it makes sense to shove people into LFR and not give us any more dungeons. It's a playstyle they can better gate and control, doesn't allow for anybody to game the system and their already building the raids anyway might as well fill em up with as many people as possible. I hope they lose millions of subs over this. Understand I want the game to succeed but not like this.

It's not the devs but the players that wanted the shift into that direction. During early cata, heroic dungeons were challenging for players that did not have the time for real raiding and raiders could get gear to be ready for raiding. So the player with less time had his end-game-content as the player with dedication had. But people with less time don't want hard content, it appears they just want to rush and get items.
So why making new content they don't enjoy but rather just rush through?

Have you ever been in a dungeon and enjoyed the environment?

[Leonard McCoy]

Prejudices, nothing more. But interesting you need to insult others instead of bringing up real arguments...



Pardon? You're making more instults and are writting confusing stuff.



It's not the devs but the players that wanted the shift into that direction. During early cata, heroic dungeons were challenging for players that did not have the time for real raiding and raiders could get gear to be ready for raiding. So the player with less time had his end-game-content as the player with dedication had. But people with less time don't want hard content, it appears they just want to rush and get items.
So why making new content they don't enjoy but rather just rush through?

Have you ever been in a dungeon and enjoyed the environment?

it's not an insult to call childish behavior childish. To that extent it isn't an insult to call people behaving as children children. The "real" argument is exactly what I said and has been tweeted by GC and blues on the forums all the time. Catch up ala cataclysm invalidated peoples works in the previous tiers. Which is childish behavior. It is equivelant to child taking his ball home when the other child has a toy that is some what REMOTELY similar to his. That isn't an insult, it's just a realization that a minority of players act like children.

The developers CATERED to that group of players, thus the shift in direction. I'm all for easy heroics that are also rewarding heroics. I'm all for hard heroics that are rewarding. What am I not in for are easy heroics with no rewards. So why make no content? I agree if the dungeons are easy and have no rewards they should stop making them. I don't agree that the developers have stopped supporting my play style though. That's a massive f you and a bonanza to the small minortiy of players who seem to get so much validation out of a video game.

[Keashaa]

Again, only insults, no arguments. If that's the way to want to "discuss", maybe you are the one with childish behavoir. I'm out.

[Leonard McCoy]

Again, only insults, no arguments. If that's the way to want to "discuss", maybe you are the one with childish behavoir. I'm out.

I gave you arguments. Plugging your ears in denial is also childish.