No new 5-player dungeons in 5.4

[Deleted]

Yeah, imagine how much low quality cheap content we can get instead of high quality content.

We should beg so that all the restaurants in the world shut their doors and be replaced with McDonalds.

Because clearly cheap low quality content is better, right?

Also, with all the subs this will make Blizzard lose, i dont know if you will get that much content in the long run.

that doesnt make sense, 5 mans were actually McDonalds in your comparison, that were cheap content but took developers time do something better.

[Elim Garak]

Excellent news, imagine the sheer amount of development time 3 dungeons would require that we only run once for lore, now being spent on the rest of the game? I really like this improved blizzard.

I would've preferred they halved the ToT raid in size and dedicated saved time to 5-mans.
Really, I hated how long Ulduar was. Didn't need another one.

[CrossNgen]

that doesnt make sense, 5 mans were actually McDonalds in your comparison, that were cheap content but took developers time do something better.

5 man are not "cheap", scenarios are, because they require no effort what so ever, except for maybe voice acting, but that is a common thing in 5 mans as well.

---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 01:55 PM ----------

I would've preferred they halved the ToT raid in size and dedicated saved time to 5-mans.
Really, I hated how long Ulduar was. Didn't need another one.

This is really where I disagree with you.

[Crashdummy]

that doesnt make sense, 5 mans were actually McDonalds in your comparison, that were cheap content but took developers time do something better.

5 mans are not cheap, which is why developers stop doing them.

Dailies and scenarios are cheap, they need almost 0 art developement, they dont even need kuch reason to be there so the developers dont need to think in a reason to introduce them, and they drop no gear, so they dont need to create new gear for them.

Instead, they can just slack off and gives us close to 0 real content and make some people happy...

---------- Post added 2013-03-18 at 11:10 AM ----------

I would've preferred they halved the ToT raid in size and dedicated saved time to 5-mans.
Really, I hated how long Ulduar was. Didn't need another one.

Its not the raid that they shuld have cutted, its the daileis and scenarios.

5.1 already introduced dailies and scenarios, we didnt need more in this patch. Odd patche can remain giving us dailese and scenarios, while even patches should give us raids and dungeons. That would be fair for everyone.

[Flaks]

Scenarios.

Don't use scenarios as an excuse for no new 5 mans.

I've had more good 5 mans than bad ones. I've always enjoyed that feel of having 4 other players with you and working together even if you're doing a lot of the carrying sometimes. I've never had a 5 man that didn't end in "thanks for the run". Scenarios? I've done all of them just to see them once, and I can't remember a player from a single one.

Dungeons and random battlegrounds are the heart and soul of the end game because of their accessibility. MOST players focus/do these two things in this game. To short shift players on either end is just all around the stupidest thing they could be doing.

[Crym]

But that's not how catch up works.

Bingo. There's a difference between raid progression (which is designed to be tedious to hold back the people who are burning through the stuff just released) and catch up mechanics for those who are never at risk of running out of things to do or are trying to get a new character to the point where they can play with their friends without it feeling cheap again.

[yjmark]

I like 5-mans, and do wish there were more to do. Personally, I'd rather see more 5-mans than scenarios.

[Deleted]

The only problem Blizz (and many players) had with new dungeons was that they kinda invalidated the older raids & processes of gearing-up in the first place. Chain-running the ICC or HoT 5-mans gave you items with the same stats people had to raid 5-6 months for, progressing from raid to raid, tier to tier, just to see "casuals" getting similar powerful items by just "roflstomping eez-mode heroics".
While I can certainly relate to that kind of view, I still liked and really enjoyed the 5-mans added during the patch cycle of an expansion, as they were great at story-telling, much better than those 5-10 minute scenarios they use now.
I remember quite fondly the times I stood in the Halls of Reflection and seeing the Lich King wander up to Frostmourne taking it from its socket and staring at me. I felt really immersed in the story back then.
In the HoT 5-mans it wasn't quite as epic, but still good story-telling and build-up for the raid.

The solution to the above-mentioned problem is pretty obvious, at least in my opinion.
Just let them drop items with an ilvl between 2 tiers of lfr, but requiring an ilvl from the lfr they are currently running (like if the average ilvl of the last lfr were 502 and the requirement for the next were 500 with 520 dropping, then let the 5-mans require an ilvl of 495 and drop 510-15 or something like that, so the 502-lfr would still be needed) kinda to help people to reach the next lfr when progressing through the old ones to reach the current ones (talking from 5.2/5.4 perspective).

That way the story-telling aspect is still used in all its glory, while the gearing-up and skipping older tiers is still off the table.
That way nothing would really be invalidated.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I like 5-mans, and do wish there were more to do. Personally, I'd rather see more 5-mans than scenarios.

Same here. 5-mans have challenge to them, scenarios are a big zerg rush.

[Deleted]

Same here. 5-mans have challenge to them, scenarios are a big zerg rush.

Name one 5-man heroic dungeon in Pandaria that is challenging. Every single dungeon is a big zerg rush.

There is a reason they made challenge mode, because heroic mode wasn't nearly challenging enough...

[Elim Garak]

Name one 5-man heroic dungeon in Pandaria that is challenging. Every single dungeon is a big zerg rush.

There is a reason they made challenge mode, because heroic mode wasn't nearly challenging enough...

Every one of them was challenging at the appropriate ilvl

[Crashdummy]

Name one 5-man heroic dungeon in Pandaria that is challenging. Every single dungeon is a big zerg rush.

There is a reason they made challenge mode, because heroic mode wasn't nearly challenging enough...

They are challenging. Groups wipe in them all the time.

The problem is when raiders want 5 man dungeons to be challenging for them, ignoring that they are tuned to a different demographic.

They also have challenge modes, that are even challenging for raiders.

[yjmark]

Name one 5-man heroic dungeon in Pandaria that is challenging. Every single dungeon is a big zerg rush.

There is a reason they made challenge mode, because heroic mode wasn't nearly challenging enough...

That was Blizzard's intent. Heroic mode was purposefully tuned to be a "regular mode" because challenge mode was made to be the challenging version of 5-mans. Not the other way around.

[Crym]

That was Blizzard's intent. Heroic mode was purposefully tuned to be a "regular mode" because challenge mode was made to be the challenging version of 5-mans. Not the other way around.

Heroic modes require quite a bit of coordination and team-work when done at the appropriate level of gearing (if what's dropping isn't better than what you have you likely over-gear it). For a lot of players that only lasts for the first week or so at max level. From that point on, almost every group you get for the rest of that expansion is doing content that's undertuned for the group's progress. Not that it was tuned to be easy, but that it was tuned for gear less than what most people have.

Challenge mode exists to create a "level playing field" for PvE competition. It doesn't matter how much time you've put into min/maxing, your stats will be capped to the level they intended the content to be done at so that the primary factor in success is execution. It's really the only way, when dealing with static content, to measure how well-played a team is in a game where stats play a significant factor in character strength.

[Magic Sausage]

I'd like a few more 85-90 dungeons added. Running the same 4 over and over again is boring. In fact leveling alts in mop is painful.

[Deleted]

Every one of them was challenging at the appropriate ilvl

Not really, even at their own ilevel they were incredibly easy.

They are challenging. Groups wipe in them all the time.

The problem is when raiders want 5 man dungeons to be challenging for them, ignoring that they are tuned to a different demographic.

They also have challenge modes, that are even challenging for raiders.

If groups wipe in these dungeons then they are just utterly terrible... I would love to see them try on actual difficult dungeons.

That was Blizzard's intent. Heroic mode was purposefully tuned to be a "regular mode" because challenge mode was made to be the challenging version of 5-mans. Not the other way around.

And this "regular mode" is mindblowingly boring, you can seriously fall asleep while doing it.

[Sanguinare]

5 mans have lost their roll in the (end game) market if you want the gear you can run all the LFR if you just like the feel of 5mans you get CMs

so if i was blizzard i would but the people used on mid tier 5 mans on the new raid tiers 3 5 mans that are only good for skipping the last tier of raids Vs 3 bosses that can be used in a LFR, 10 man and 25 man heroic and normal raids will be good for alts and mains 5 man are just good for alts and people late to the Xpac.

[zshikara]

LFR is basically a glorified 25 man dungeon. That's where we get our gear from now. I personally have no issues with it.

[Hunter Extraordinaire]

I like 5-mans, and do wish there were more to do. Personally, I'd rather see more 5-mans than scenarios.

This, to me dungeons are fun, and they pass the time if you're waiting for something ( like a player to login for raid as an example)

[Crashdummy]

If groups wipe in these dungeons then they are just utterly terrible... I would love to see them try on actual difficult dungeons.

Or maybe different people find different things challenging?

Some of the people wiping in those dungeons can, maybe, do calculations you wont even imagine how to start doing and they find them easy.

Or we can not go into academic examples, and some of the people that wipe in those dungeons may solves puzzles that it would take days for you to solve and they solve it in an hour.

People here need to understand what subjectivity is.

And yes, hundreds of groups wipe in MoP dungeons every single day, even if you dont.