Throne of Thunder - World First Heroic Thread!

[lappee]

Yet you did Lich King during Paragon's 25 man days and Lei Shen on 10 man , of course your your gunna enjoy Lich King more

Usually 10man offers more of a challenge for your personal skill (which i like in progression, on farm 25man sounds more appealing due to being able to slack like hell all the time)
i just liked lich king over lei-shen as an encounter, 10 or 25 doesnt change that fact

[Bryce]

It's possible there is something to be gained from having a monk tank for 25 (I don't think paragon or method used monk MT's) that rigg couldn't do on his DK... dps maybe?

Believe I heard monks and I think pallies could essentially solo tank Lei Shen even during decaps. Not sure about the pallies, but believe I heard monks using zen med, etc to soak decaps worked fine.

Again, just from what I heard no proof or anything.

[noaim]

I suppose you have killed Lei Shen on 25M HC to say something like that? You are still dreaming of the past, I seriously doubt that Paragon 25M rooster would perform much better than the current Method 25M rooster or if you took current Method back in time and start the LK 25HC race head to head with them do you still think you would have gotten WF? The game, players and overall the guilds have evolved since then, like football is played with a different ball than it was on the past, sure it's still a ball but it's a different ball, the same way it happen with old Nihilium that many people say to have been the best guild ever, do you think if they were racing LK25 HC head to head with you they would get WF instead? It sounds like a grandparent saying if his favorite sports team of the 80s were to face a modern team they would rape them hard.

Anyway, it's so funny that every guild that kills a boss who gives a challenge right after it acts all big and says that its the hardest boss ever, it's becoming a trend now.

When did this turn into a cock fight between the paragon and method roosters?!

[Deleted]

Usually 10man offers more of a challenge for your personal skill (which i like in progression, on farm 25man sounds more appealing due to being able to slack like hell all the time)
i just liked lich king over lei-shen as an encounter, 10 or 25 doesnt change that fact

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

[Senen]

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

Method killed Lei Shen in five tries this week. I guess that means Lei Shen 25-man of this week has a lower dps requirement than Lei Shen 25-man of last week ?

[lappee]

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

you seem to forget that in wotlk you could do both 10man and 25, and that 10man was easier by default due to having lower ilvl. if you want to compare it for real, then ask yourself how many 25's killed sinestra before any 10man killed it

theres more to "skill" than just dps requirements. dps is actually the easiest part of raiding in my opinion, the specific jobs of individuals are the "hard" parts and obviously theres more of them per person in 10man than there is in 25

What comes to killing raggy 10 way faster than 25, re-kills happen usually way faster than first kills - especially when you get to hand pick the best players with the best classes to a certain fight. Then again, we killed lei-shen on 4th pull this week so i dont really get where you're coming from

[Deleted]

Method killed Lei Shen in five tries this week. I guess that means Lei Shen 25-man of this week has a lower dps requirement than Lei Shen 25-man of last week ?

Yes, because we are executing the same tactic with the exact same setup. Usually different things issues when shifting between 10 and 25man. For example on LichKing, its obviously alot easier to keep aggro on the valks in the air when only 1 spawns at time, alot easier to control infest when you only have 10 people to worry about. For example with Ragnaros, the intermission phase becomes more of issue on 10man than it does on 25man, however in the last phase space is no issue on 10man obviously. I havent played Lei Shen on 10man but I imagine it must be alot easier purely due to the amount of utility we have to bring to the raid to make the fight even possible, where as 10man it is doable with a standard raid composition.

[Durandro]

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

1/ 10 man was actually tuned easier during Wrath of the Lich King. Argument invalid.

2/ Killing bosses after the first attempt is always going to be easier due to knowing the mechanics, confidence and also having the gear.

3/ 10 man has more personal responsibility then 25 man, especially on healers. ESPECIALLY if you're 2 healing a fight. And you can get by with one or two deaths mid-fight on 25 man, on 10 man you may as well wipe in many situations.

[Deleted]

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

10man HC LK with ONLY 10man hc gear didn't come untill really late into that tier. Close to 20-30% buff.

[asharia]

Haha. Get real man. You seem to forget almost 17 guilds killed LichKing on 10man Heroic before anyone killed it on 25man, also remember killing Ragnaros 10man heroic in under 5 attempts after you did it on 25man?. Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please.

they'd already wiped 700 times to him on 25man. the fight isn't that much different. that time counts for something.

they also had the ability to pick the perfect 10man comp from a roster of 50+ super geared 25man raiders (25man still got more loot with better RNG back then. not to mention they ran 2 25mans to funnel gear onto mains.) so in short, they didn't have '5' attempts, they had hundreds. and they had HUGE gear and comp advantages over what a TRUE 10man guild would have at that point.

[Deleted]

"Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please." The DPS requirement isnt a personal thing like It might be on 10man, the strategy gives you the extra DPS, obviously every member of the raid is pushing whatever the max is possible. Using Lei Shen as an example as soon as I saw you kill it with a normal raid composition I knew the fight must be a joke in 10man, the amount of utility we have to bring to make p3 even possible makes me think the last phase in 10man must be a joke.

[Cairhiin]

Gratz to Blood Legion for US first and world second 25 man kill!

"Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please." The DPS requirement isnt a personal thing like It might be on 10man, the strategy gives you the extra DPS, obviously every member of the raid is pushing whatever the max is possible. Using Lei Shen as an example as soon as I saw you kill it with a normal raid composition I knew the fight must be a joke in 10man, the amount of utility we have to bring to make even possible makes me think the last phase in 10man must be a joke.

Are you for real? You realize right that it entirely depends on the fight. 10 man raids can't really stack classes like 25 man raids can. What makes fights difficult in 10 man is entirely different from what makes fights hard in 25 man. You can't possibly begin to compare the two, and you shouldn't. Your post comes across as if Paragon just walked in there and got a kill because phase 3 is a joke. You are seriously underestimating the level of skill that is required to raid at the level Method, Paragon, Blood Legion and all the other top guilds that are currently wiping on Lei Shen, are raiding at.

[Deleted]

.

I refuse to believe you're THE Pacteh with a statement like that..

[Makarena]

Thats why its just them who killed it on 10man, and moonz are there for 10 days already with 1 less ilvl. Must be a joke man I tell you

[Deleted]

Thats why its just them who killed it on 10man, and moonz are there for 10 days already with 1 less ilvl. Must be a joke man I tell you

You really think the other 10man guilds put in as many hours in as Paragon did? Paragon are competiting against no one in that 10man bracket, I would go as far to say they are probably the only 10man guild that raid the same hours of progression as a top 25man guild. I think every other guild on that 10man list raid casual hours for progress

[Daewyn]

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you use pre-Cataclysm tier and flawed numbers to make a comparison between 10 and 25 man, Pacteh.

[lappee]

"Obviously 10man heroic is a challenge but dont suggest that the healing or dps requirements are even close to that of 25man please." The DPS requirement isnt a personal thing like It might be on 10man, the strategy gives you the extra DPS, obviously every member of the raid is pushing whatever the max is possible. Using Lei Shen as an example as soon as I saw you kill it with a normal raid composition I knew the fight must be a joke in 10man, the amount of utility we have to bring to make p3 even possible makes me think the last phase in 10man must be a joke.

stacking in 10man aint as easy as it is in 25. You actually need to think of the raid buffs too.

and while im checking your raidcomp for lei-shen, i dont really see stacking. having 4 of one class is more or less standard for 25man (in sheer numbers, having 2 of the same class in 10 is more of stacking than having 4 in 25)


while at talking about p3, im sure 25's use different tactic than 10's. we used the best tactic for our comp while you obviously did the same, was that the best way to handle the fight? who knows.

[Deleted]

It's pretty hard to take you seriously when you use pre-Cataclysm tier and flawed numbers to make a comparison between 10 and 25 man, Pacteh.

LK and Rag were bad examples yes, but I used them because thats the last time I did 10man raiding. The game is completely different in 10man but to suggest that the game is harder on a personal skill level than 25 is a joke.

[rigginsbear]

Lets be serious.

The real game is decided in challenge modes.

[Makarena]

You really think the other 10man guilds put in as many hours in as Paragon did? Paragon are competiting against no one in that 10man bracket, I would go as far to say they are probably the only 10man guild that raid the same hours of progression as a top 25man guild. I think every other guild on that 10man list raid casual hours for progress

Putting time into something doesn't usually mean getting kills. If you bang your head over a brick wall, you will still break ur head regardless of the amount of time you put in unless your head is made of steel (that means u got the means to break it). Its a question of people being capable of doing it and not. Simple.