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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I sat in the Open raid queue for 2 hours, I posted on the forums, and also posted in the general chat area for a few hours.

    There were NONE that fit around my time schedule. So please shut your mouth, instead of just resorting to the typical "HURR YOU JUST WANT TO WHINE HURRR" card.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 02:33 PM ----------




    So I should have to be subscribed.. for 2 months of not having any fun, and being mindlessly bored of grinding before I can actually start to be able to raid with my friends?

    Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.
    Well I had to level to 90 from 80 during that time (got SoR'd), and it did take me longer to get used to the game because of all the changes.

    Also if you're raiding with friends why are you doing LFR? Aren't you doing normal raids?

  2. #162
    I share the OP's sentiment. While I agree we don't need a instant catch up mechanic, any player joining in patch 5.4 or later is going to have a significantly harder time catching up to anyone. I fear that once SoO is out most people will run just that with most of their characters. Also once the end of expac lull kicks in and people who are only doing 5.4 content quit, increased que times and general poor playing/sportsmenship will render LFR a even bigger chore that people will actively avoid.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    No, they probably wouldn't. But for the vast majority of raiding guilds/players who grind away for months and months in normal mode raids, only to then realize that everything they had worked for is now pointless because of a new 5-man, such instant catch-ups are hugely demoralizing, and lead to overall sub losses for the game.
    As opposed to the great majority of people who ground away in T14 normal, didn't finish the tier (median was 9/16), and then have their gear outclassed by T15 LFR?

    Raid participation in T15 normal is horrific right now, down from 40+K guilds to about 13K guilds. These people know they won't be able to finish T15 normal either, which is hugely demoralizing. So, they give up.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Geegeez View Post
    Well I had to level to 90 from 80 during that time (got SoR'd), and it did take me longer to get used to the game because of all the changes.

    Also if you're raiding with friends why are you doing LFR? Aren't you doing normal raids?
    No, to raid with my 4 friends in their normal ToT runs, I need to have gear to join their guilds Raids, but with a low Ilvl the GM prefers to just pug 1-2 people with a higher Ilvl if core raiders are away.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    My issue with it is the absurd rarity of Sha crystals. With new 5 man dungeons in Wrath and Cata it was easy to get the crystals needed for new enchants by simply running a few instances and DEing the gear. Now with no such option the only way is to hope you get lucky in LFR, or make one per day with the CD, making the weapon enchants will absurdly expensive to craft.
    What? They aren't rare. At all. Not even close. Just from doing the daily cooldown for them I have like 5 stacks of them in my bank and I had already sold at least that many on the auction house not to mention the ones I have used for my own enchants. If you aren't able to get many of them you just simply aren't even playing the game. Also just to clarify I'm not referring to any sha crystals I have gotten from disenchanting LFR/normal mode gear although in 5.2 epics are far far more common now.

    It seems a little stupid to complain about sha crystals being a limited commodity. Between the gating of certain end game enchants and Blizzard limiting the flow of sha crystals the enchants are actually retaining their value. This is a boon to enchanters. In fact overall Blizzard has done an excellent job of keeping professions viable and profitable throughout Mop. During Cata the market was so flooded with crafted goods that the raw mats to make things were worth more than the crafted goods. I don't want to go back to that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    Because I also want to be able to enchant things for myself and my alts (who are not all enchanters). The Sha Crystals have to come from somewhere, and I don't want to be forced to drag my lock through old content, or rely on a once per day CD to get them.
    And yet if you did just that you would have plenty of sha crystals for your enchants and have some left over to sell on the auction house. Actually if you have the enchants you can usually make a profit from them even if you buy the crystals. It isn't Blizzard's fault players fail at crafting and the auction house.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtuse View Post
    I read through a number of posts and didn't see it mentioned so just in case you weren't aware, all 5.0 valor gear is notably cheaper now. I'm pretty sure there are pieces for 400 valor now. Most expensive was maybe 1000? Yes you still need rep to access them, but you gotta do a "little" bit of work to justify a cheap and effective reward.
    Unfortunately bringing that up just makes the irrational players more irrational. The mere mention of 5.0 reputations only results in knee jerk herpa derp "QQ FU world of dailycraft". Also for some reason they consider that gear outdated despite the fact Blizzard has gone above and beyond in trying to keep content and gear relevant longer.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
    Blizz is pushing LFR so they don't have to create dungeons to add catch up gear. Just more laziness, nothing else.
    Actually I think Blizzard realized whiners are never happy with the 5 mans they put out so why bother doing more? If there had been new 5 mans in 5.2 I'm betting you and the rest of the hate brigade would have been crapping all over them like you do everything else.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I sat in the Open raid queue for 2 hours, I posted on the forums, and also posted in the general chat area for a few hours.

    There were NONE that fit around my time schedule. So please shut your mouth, instead of just resorting to the typical "HURR YOU JUST WANT TO WHINE HURRR" card.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-15 at 02:33 PM ----------




    So I should have to be subscribed.. for 2 months of not having any fun, and being mindlessly bored of grinding before I can actually start to be able to raid with my friends?

    Sounds pretty fucking stupid to me.
    Given your piss poor attitude in this thread and hostility towards anyone trying to help you, yes I think you do actually care more about whining than anything else.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Longer it takes to gear -> longer people stay subbed -> more subs

    Of course, then you have the "I want it now or I quit!" group of players, but...well, Blizzard would probably notice their absence, but would anyone else?
    People on the official forums have been threatening to quit the game over LFR drop rates since it opened up in Mop and yet almost none of them have actually cancelled (before anyone jumps down my throat you have to pay for a subscription to post there). They just keep making new threads week after week complaining about the same thing over and over and yet never actually quit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-19 at 08:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    As opposed to the great majority of people who ground away in T14 normal, didn't finish the tier (median was 9/16), and then have their gear outclassed by T15 LFR?

    Raid participation in T15 normal is horrific right now, down from 40+K guilds to about 13K guilds. These people know they won't be able to finish T15 normal either, which is hugely demoralizing. So, they give up.
    Maybe you should put that in the context of earlier tiers when they first opened but oh wait...then you couldn't do your chicken little impression. Look not everyone in the raiding community raids cutting edge content. Also there is the fact many players are quite happily still progressing through tier 14 to get ready for ToT. That isn't a sign of a problem in fact it is a sign that progression is working precisely as intended.
    Last edited by xanzul; 2013-03-19 at 12:06 PM.

  6. #166
    I'm not sure how I feel about having to use LFR to gear up. The way I see it, there's a plus side, and a down side.

    The plus side is, it allows people to see current content without having to join a raiding guild. It's also easier, and takes less time than a normal run would.

    On the down side, it feels like it's being used to stretch out content for as long as possible. Just like dailies. You want to join a new guild and gear up? Well have fun, because first you'll need to get heroic gear, then hope you get lucky with a key drop, then hope you get lucky with coin drops, then hope you get lucky in lfr and get gear instead of gold. And if you've finished LFR, you'll have to hope your new guild is currently running older content and is willing to help gear you up. And if you're unlucky with drops, you'll have to wait a week and start all over again.

    While blizzard tried to adress the low drop rates by boosting the chances for gear, I can't help but feel that theres a bit too much filler content. I've got conflicting feelings about all of this. On the plus side, you have a reason to log in on non raid days because you'll need coins and do LFR for a gear chance. On the down side, there's no variety to what you have to do, so it gets pretty boring pretty fast.

    Whats worse is that if your guild has some misfortune and loses most of it's raid team like mine did, there's no way you're going to get to see the normal version of the new content until you get new members and have them do the gear grind, which is spread out over a few weeks per person. Unless you're on a decent server and people looking for a new guild are actually geared and not just new players who flocked to the realm because blizz flagged it for new players at the start of MoP, you can't see the new stuff outside of the tunnel vision raiding experience that is LFR.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by jimlow View Post
    I share the OP's sentiment. While I agree we don't need a instant catch up mechanic, any player joining in patch 5.4 or later is going to have a significantly harder time catching up to anyone. I fear that once SoO is out most people will run just that with most of their characters. Also once the end of expac lull kicks in and people who are only doing 5.4 content quit, increased que times and general poor playing/sportsmenship will render LFR a even bigger chore that people will actively avoid.
    Well to be honest not many players join an expansion at the last patch and they should see all the content, but for an alt it will be SUPER easy to gear up. The thunder isle rep will be revered by atleast one toon by then (most are at that now) meaning your alt will get 1.5X the rep, that bonus with choosing them as your rep for daily dungeon and sceneario and farm you can buy tons of gear that will push you into ToT lfr. In ToT lfr in 5.4 they will have drops high like with 5.1 lfr raid drops currently and gear will drop easily (especially with so many bosses) and im sure by 5.4 there will be another hub with even more catch up gear and gimmicks.
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
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  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post

    My reasoning is, it should be both quick AND easy to get gear
    And here is the catch - Blizz dont want you and others to gear up quick, cos you will be bored and whine or unsubscribe from the game. Consuming content too fast leads in that direction... Makes perfect sense when you look at things from the "dark side"' right?

  9. #169
    Stood in the Fire Zantera's Avatar
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    I think Justice Points is a joke at the moment. I'm not saying you should be able to buy itlvl 522-gear with it, but at this time, at least 376 epics or something? Right now the stuff you buy for Justice is even worse than what drops in HCs, and it's barely better than what drops in some of the normal dungeons. I honestly don't know what I should do with all my Justice Points.

  10. #170
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    You can (and should) completely skip 5man dungeons and get 476 honor gear instead. Get up to 470, run the old LFRs once with 20 coins (from thunder island key scenario) and tada 480. If you get stuck on 479 or something you can always wait a week and get 20 more charms from the treasure scenario thing and get the 522 necklace.

    It's not great, but at least there is a sneaky shortcut to get an alt up to viable Ilvls (480+).

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think Justice Points is a joke at the moment. I'm not saying you should be able to buy itlvl 522-gear with it, but at this time, at least 376 epics or something? Right now the stuff you buy for Justice is even worse than what drops in HCs, and it's barely better than what drops in some of the normal dungeons. I honestly don't know what I should do with all my Justice Points.
    This is currently there to prevent heroic farming for full epics, Working as intended as far as im concerned.
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by kingriku View Post
    This is currently there to prevent heroic farming for full epics, Working as intended as far as im concerned.
    Yeah. And they did nerf the valor cost of old valor items in 5.2 didn't they?
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I think Justice Points is a joke at the moment. I'm not saying you should be able to buy itlvl 522-gear with it, but at this time, at least [476] epics or something? Right now the stuff you buy for Justice is even worse than what drops in HCs, and it's barely better than what drops in some of the normal dungeons. I honestly don't know what I should do with all my Justice Points.
    You CAN get 476 epics with JP: just convert them to honor first and get the ilvl 476 PvP items.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    O
    But you truly feel like LFR is content? Because it doesn't feel like it at all to me. It feels like just paying dues, and that's retarded in a video game that is supposed to be fun. LFR isn't a challenge it isn't engaging it isn't fun. It's 25 people zerging down a boss who gets weaker the more they lose. How can you say this is content? How can you say "Yeah, all you players need to suffer through this garbage", what the hell man? Not doing a tier and doing it in LFR are the same thing. One just takes longer. So I get to NOT do the tier for weeks now. What the hell? How is that a fun game design?

    Why is making players play through boring bad content so important to you guys? Serious question? Subs are down and dropping. You really think people going "Wow, they made it much more of a pain in the ass to do anything...I better resub and get this xpac!" is what is gonna happen?
    Hell no I don't think it is considered content, I am more referring to progression through normals or greater.

    How are raids that you've never done "boring and bad"? That's a pretty foolish mentality to have. Having more things to do instead of only one thing to do is boring?

    People stop playing because the game has been out for 8+ years. If handing out gear at the first sign of anyone being upset is how you want them to approach this game, then I rest my case that the playerbase in this game has basically hit the point of no return.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post

    So honestly, the game has grown a lot easier and a lot more rewarding
    This nicely captures the insanity of the current generation of wow players.

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    If you aren't able to get many of them you just simply aren't even playing the game.

    It isn't Blizzard's fault players fail at crafting and the auction house.

    The mere mention of 5.0 reputations only results in knee jerk herpa derp "QQ FU world of dailycraft".

    Blizzard realized whiners are never happy / I'm betting you and the rest of the hate brigade would have been crapping all over them like you do everything else.

    Given your piss poor attitude in this thread and hostility towards anyone trying to help you, yes I think you do actually care more about whining than anything else.

    but oh wait...then you couldn't do your chicken little impression
    Do you ever just discuss/debate issues without backhandedly insulting people and their opinions?

    On Topic: Gearing through LFR is simply another option. People clamored for choices when 5.0 dropped, and now LFR is listed among the options. Is it the best or fastest option to gear up? Likely no. Should people get belittled for using it as a viable resource if they are not complaining about it? I don't think so. The vocal minority of the forums does not speak for the silent majority who continues to play the game as it is without complaint or comment and likely never setting foot in a forum.

  17. #177
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Guys, can we please tone down the hostility a little bit? It's cool, we all have our own opinions and can disagree, but let's all be a little more chill.
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  18. #178
    This new system Blizzard is implementing is the worst designed system ever, and goes back to the era where RNG could ruined you completely for months.

    A weekly lockout system with RNG involved can NEVER be an effective catch up mechanism, and a system that depends on it is so poorly designed that its a shame that a company as big as Blizzard makes this mistake.

    Anyone that thinks about it for a minimum of time realizes that any system with a weekly lockout and RNG WILL starve a lot of people trying to catch up for MONTHS, because thats the nature of RNG, it will not be "gentle" with a lot of people that wont receive gear and the weekly lockout WILL extend that for a period of months.

    Blizzard is making huge mistakes in this expansion, and they will suffer more sub drops than in the previous one becayse of that. The first quarter they already lost the same amount than in Cataclysm, which was the biggest failure in WoW history.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    This new system Blizzard is implementing is the worst designed system ever, and goes back to the era where RNG could ruined you completely for months.

    A weekly lockout system with RNG involved can NEVER be an effective catch up mechanism, and a system that depends on it is so poorly designed that its a shame that a company as big as Blizzard makes this mistake.

    Anyone that thinks about it for a minimum of time realizes that any system with a weekly lockout and RNG WILL starve a lot of people trying to catch up for MONTHS, because thats the nature of RNG, it will not be "gentle" with a lot of people that wont receive gear and the weekly lockout WILL extend that for a period of months.

    Blizzard is making huge mistakes in this expansion, and they will suffer more sub drops than in the previous one becayse of that. The first quarter they already lost the same amount than in Cataclysm, which was the biggest failure in WoW history.
    Catch up for what? Thats the whole problem, nothing matters in the game anymore. You can run LFR in your quest greens and be just fine. For all but the few heroic mode guilds, progression does not exist in this game anymore. Yes you can advance you ilvl, and get pets and mounts and other fluff items, but the days of actually having meaningful progression where what you do impacts your characters actual ability are over, certainly for the LFR players.

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  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    What do people have against people being able to start late in an Expansion and experience the last patch straight away though?
    Do you know what made WoW as big as it was back before 3.0 hit live? Progression.

    While it is a pretty simple concept, most people don't seem to understand what the essence of WoW is. Leveling your character, leveling professions, gaining personal skill, gaining reputation within your guild and on the realm (removed by introducing LFG/LFR), after hitting max level: progressing from normal dungeons over heroic dungeons and then from raid tier to raid tier etc.

    Some people think that removing parts of the progression improves the game (and sadly Blizzard listens to them) but if you think about it further, those people seem to want a game where you log in press a button and then loot top tier gear. But wouldn't that be kind of boring?

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