Thread: T15 SB vs SBar

  1. #1

    T15 SB vs SBar

    So , was just wondering what everyone's opinions are for this tier as to which abilitiy is better for each boss. Plus any warrior tips or tricks would be appreciatted as well. Thanks

  2. #2
    Well let's see for 10m (25m regulary hits 75%-100% harder so priotizing SB over SBar except for pure magical bursts should be a nobrainer)...

    1. Jin'Rokh (troll)
    SBar on lightning storm, else use SB. He doesn't deal to much tank damage anyways, just don't stand in the puddle.

    2. Horridon (dino)
    You can't block tripple puncture, so SBar for that. But he only uses that ability roughly every ~ 11 seconds, so you can squeeze in a SB to reduce the regular melee swings. Trick: you can use Hand of Protection to get rid of the stacks.

    3. Council of Elders (Omnotron 3.0)
    SBar, no question. If you happen to range-tank Marli use spell reflect, glyph and talent for it as well. Taunt during Malakks frigid assault but not right at the start, else he'll apply to much stacks and freezes you.

    4. Tortos (turtle)
    SB works on Snapping bite so it's way stronger than SBar if you tank him. For the bats you'll probably want SBar to remain over the required hitpoints treshhold all the time.

    5. Megaera (hydra)
    Soooo much damage incoming. Pop shield wall on the third fire breath, use SBar for every breath and SB in between. What i've been told: If you can bring 4 healer, this pretty much trivialises the encounter (requires you to swap heads on the fly and not during Rampage).

    6. Ji-Kun (bird)
    SB on Talon Rake (blockable), SBar on quills. Probably the most boring fight this tier, just stand there hitting a giant training dummy while your raid does all the work.

    7. Durumu (eye)
    SBar on Hard Stare, SB in between. SBar during Light Spectrum and SBar during C'thuns Laser beam.

    8. Primordius (blobs)
    Glyph Victory Rush, you'll get a lot of killing blows on the adds. You can't block Primordial Strike so SBar for this (and all those special mutated abilities), SB for the rest (he hits really fast). 6-7 stacks of Malformed Blood should be enough to deal with the adds, no need to go all the way to 9 stacks. Keep your bigger cooldowns for the later stages when mutated several times and hits noticeable harder.

    9. Dark Animus (robo)
    Pop shield wall right at the start, while tanking two robo you'll eat A LOT of damage. Make sure to position correctly for the anima transfer and use SBar on all special abilities (nothing blockable). This fight is all about a proper strategy, tank damage is negligible beyond the start. Trick: You can heroic leap out of 'Anima Ring' without triggering it.

    10. Iron Qon (dogs)
    SBar on Impale, leap/any banner+intervene out of Storm Cloud.

    11. Twins
    SBar on Fan of Flames, outside of that just enjoy your loot. Totally untertuned fight.

    12. Lei-Shen (thunder)
    SBar on everything, heroic leap + SBar on Decapitate. I'd recommend glyphing leap for more mobility (ie: catching clouds or reaching the other side of the room) and picking up Storm Bolt for some aggro/control on adds.

    Haven't figured out to many tricks yet myself, it's the first ID and we just rushed to unlock heroic mode.

    General: Most tank swaps last way over 20 seconds, so your high vengeance stack will run out. Use intervene on your co-tank at this point to keep a decent amount of bonus attackpower and if specced for safeguard it's also a welcome mini-cooldown. Tank damage dealt isn't trivial and both of us combined are at least equal to a full dps if not more.
    Last edited by klausistklaus; 2013-03-12 at 05:54 PM.

  3. #3
    Really informative answer with lots of useful info. Was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks a bunch and good luck with heroics this week.

  4. #4
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Block by default, Barrier when Magic or Bleed

  5. #5
    Freaking great post Klausis^^^^^
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
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    Would rep you if i could <3

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    9. Dark Animus (robo)
    Pop shield wall right at the start, while tanking two robo you'll eat A LOT of damage. Make sure to position correctly for the anima transfer and use SBar on all special abilities (nothing blockable). This fight is all about a proper strategy, tank damage is negligible beyond the start. Trick: You can heroic leap out of 'Anima Ring' without triggering it.
    I also managed to intervene out of the anima ring, only tried it once and it was on our kill, so maybe i got lucky but it worked atleast once
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  8. #8
    It probably works too, I just HLed out of it... But a lot of times intervening or charging through bad things don't damage you. I can attest for Vizier Attenuation at the very least. The Anima Ring probably uses the same engine. More or less.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Hatebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    2. Horridon (dino)
    You can't block tripple puncture, so SBar for that. But he only uses that ability roughly every ~ 11 seconds, so you can squeeze in a SB to reduce the regular melee swings. Trick: you can use Hand of Protection to get rid of the stacks.

    Regarding Horridon, are those S.barriers the 60 rage ones? As far I could see after lots of tries (and wipes), the boss will cast Triple Puncutre right before a Double Swipe (not always when there's a Charge before the Swipe) and then right after it (sometimes 1-2 melee hits will happen before). I'm actually using a 60 rage S.barr before the 1st Triple Puncutre, pooling some rage while avoiding the Double Swipe and poping another 60 rage S.barr for the other Puncture. The problem here is that, doing that way, I'm unable to pop S.Block to reduce the regular melees (won't have the Rage for the 1st Puncture).
    Are you guys using the 20 rage version of S.barr or I'm failling hard on my rage generation? Thanks =)
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  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire
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    Guys remember, Shield Block doesnt scale with veng, Sbar does. So with tankswaps and phase changes etc, Shield Block is much better than ppl make it sound. Ofcourse when you get high veng Sbar still pretty much trumps Sblock 100-0.

    And if there isnt anytthing special to glyph for, glyph SS for moar dps. We usually 3heal fights, so im more on the offensive side (i use every rage for defense as HS hits for nothing, Executes if im not in danger) I usually pull the same if not more than the DPSers, hello Tortos 230k DPS

    Tank DPS matters more and more nowadays, atleast on 10man.

  11. #11
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    Tank DPS I would say is equally, if not more, important on 25 given that for the majority of fights if played to its maximum potential you will be topping DPS as the tank.
    To achieve this you want to keep as close to maximum uptime of Shield Block as you can manage with a few nuances

    If you are seriously pushing for DPS you can skip putting block up if you don't have a Shield Slam ready to cast and instead spend that on a revenge or devastate in order to achieve maximum possible uptime of Block (for HR) and spamming Revenge > Devastate to get another Shield Slam or two off in the single block window

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Drugshock View Post
    20 vs 60 rage SBar
    20 rage SBar smoothes out regular damage, while 60 rage SBar helps decreasing large spikes. Get a decent bossmod, he tripple punctures on timer almost perfectly. There should be no doubt about when those bursts are going to happen and you can act accordingly.

    I'd only use SBar with less rage if you screwed up before or had to run away for whatever reason. Else you'll just reduce some damage on his regular hits but what most probably will kill you is a dire call + melee hit (x2) + puncture combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odeanathus View Post
    I also managed to intervene out of the anima ring, only tried it once and it was on our kill, so maybe i got lucky but it worked atleast once
    After reading your comment i gave it a try and it worked just fine as well. Funny: Our monk could not roll out of it, tried it an endless amount of times. He either needed a priest grip or a dps eating a ring-ball to get free.

    ---

    Some more observations:

    On 1. Jin'Rokh heroic:
    - Don't intervene with stacks left, that gonna hurt a lot.
    - Don't try to dance in the middle, the dps requirements are fairly low and just dodging all balls is far more benefical for the raid than getting some styles off.
    - After the throw on the other tank jump next to him (just outside the stun area), this way you delay the new tank debuff by a fair amount and he'll only hit you once at maximum.
    - You can safely stay in the puddle with the debuff while not tanking, benefitting from +40% damage dealt (but watch aggro carefully)

    On 2. Horridon heroic:
    - You MUST have a major cooldown active when Ja-Lak dies. Horridon is hitting for an insane amount of damage afterwards (450k melee).
    - It can happen that you (or your co-tank) also gets a dire spirit in this phase if your raid was to slow (~ 10:30+ minutes mark) please be aware and ready to kite him (= run away during double swipes as far as you can but communicate with your healers/raid so they can keep up).

    On 4. Tortos heroic:
    - You can solo tank him but you'll need misdirect/tricks to make it work properly.
    - if one of your tanks is capable of kiting (chillblains/death and decay+glyph or throwing beer) you can just ignore a whole mechanik of this fight and greatly decrease the dps requirements despite basically playing with 9 people.
    - His snapping bite hits for a LOT (500k) and as mentioned before it's blockable, but due to the crystal mechanic it seems to be better to use SBar on heroic mode (you can parry/dodge it as well, so having 35%+ avoidance won't hurt). Regular absorb effects seem to be counted after the crystal with our SBar being an exception:

    - his snapping bite hits you roughly every 7.5-8 seconds and it has a cast bar so be prepared.
    - I'm not to sure when to pop cooldowns here, i regulary try to use shieldwall on a bite-stomp-bite combo and use shout-wall-shout-banner-shout-wall-shout to cover all stomps.
    - Please notice that last stand and rallying cry are counter productive on a stomp because that ability hits you for 100% of your hitpoints, but you can still pop them right afterwards.

    On Ji-Kun (heroic):
    - you can intervene Talon Rake on your co-tank if you watch swingtimer and bossmod timer carefully. Doesn't seem to work if he's already casting it.

    On Primordius (normal):
    - At the beginning of the fight just have your first tank eat more stacks (10+), this allows your offtank to collect enough mutations to pop dps cooldowns on the boss while your bloodlust/heroism is running and give your co-tank an easier time killing most of the blobs while your raids can focus on the raid. Note: Aoe only triggers the malformed blood effect on one target. But don't run away to far with that many stacks, even with glyphed victory rush you still eat a noticeable amount of damage.

    On Dark Animus trash (there's even an achievement attached to them - http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=8081 ):
    Mark all three guys with a flaming hand and pull them togther to your raid, while solo tank all three guys without flaming hands at the other side of the room. Flaming hand guys use a laser beam only hitting people 200y+ away so they are no danger to your raid while those Ritualists without the flaming hands use a short range laser beam only hitting targets within 30y. Spam cooldowns, interrupt/stun/reflect as much as you can on them. To be honest we wiped more to them than to the boss himself before we finally figured it out

    On Lei-Shen (normal):
    - you will always take a minimum amount of damage from decapicitate, there's no need to run further away after that arrow above your head turns green
    - during the last phase if you just taunt after your debuff run out the boss will be taunt immune after 4-5 swaps, be aware of that and plan ahead to use a major cooldown. Next round the other tank should pop his cooldown and Lei-Shen regulary will be down sometimes after that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    6. Ji-Kun (bird)
    SB on Talon Rake (blockable), SBar on quills. Probably the most boring fight this tier, just stand there hitting a giant training dummy while your raid does all the work.
    Tank that's wayting for its stacks do wear off absorb slime pools with SBar

    9. Dark Animus (robo)
    Pop shield wall right at the start, while tanking two robo you'll eat A LOT of damage. Make sure to position correctly for the anima transfer and use SBar on all special abilities (nothing blockable). This fight is all about a proper strategy, tank damage is negligible beyond the start. Trick: You can heroic leap out of 'Anima Ring' without triggering it.
    You can and you should position yourself in a way that avoids adds from stacking dmg. For example, if you manage to keep one add in your back and the other in front of you healers can pretty much forget you and you don't even need to use any cds. Just position better if needed before the adds are about to die.

    Just wanted to add this, good post anyway

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    - during the last phase if you just taunt after your debuff run out the boss will be taunt immune after 4-5 swaps, be aware of that and plan ahead to use a major cooldown. Next round the other tank should pop his cooldown and Lei-Shen regulary will be down sometimes after that.
    I must be the only one feeling like an idiot for yelling at my bear last night who swore he taunted.... :-D
    Odeanathus is one of those people who get's a job driving the special bus just to make fun of the disabled kids....

  15. #15
    Haven't tried that trick with the DA adds. I kill them asap, so having huge vengeance it's fairly interesting to finish the job fast... But our other tank holds them a bit while I free of adds other people, so I will tell him to try to divide them, seems cool.

    The tortos bit is interesting, didn't know it either. Though since I did an aura to add and show all external absorbs on me, I noticed that Sbar will always be consumed before Spirit Shells, Aegis, pala mastery, etc. I suppose it always goes before any other absorb on the game.

  16. #16
    Moderator eddytheone's Avatar
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    You will honestly get more benefit on DA from letting them buff each other and destroying one with the extra vengeance

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by eddytheone View Post
    You will honestly get more benefit on DA from letting them buff each other and destroying one with the extra vengeance
    It really depends how you do it tbh. The strat my guild uses strains healers a bit so for them the abysmal difference on dmg taken by the tanks made a difference.

    This on 10 man, don't know if in 25 the strat varys much.

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